Players that won't learn a note

[dkelley]

I've jammed with a few guys that tune down the guitar for lower tension on the neck and then play with a capo. AND don't tell you

how odd.... why not just play a short scale guitar? exactly the same thing LoL... isn't it? edit: or do I have that backwards? it's been a backwards kind of day... LoL

 

[Texican]

Never stop the song. That is the first rule i learned back in the 80s.

Sounds to me like your ego is a big issue.
Everone makes mistakes playing live. Keep playing. The audience will never know. Never stop the song. Great way to never get a second gig.

I know a ton of players that dont know names of notes or names of chords they are playing. It dont matter. We talk in a way that they understand. I dont demand they do it my way, or amyway. We work together to make it work.

I have to disagree with you here. If you stop a song 10 seconds in, and completely avoid a four minute train wreck, the audience is going to appreciate it. They’re also going to enjoy the charming banter that normally follows an incident like that on stage. It helps the audience connect with the band, and feel a more human connection. I’ve seen Eric Clapton restart the song. I’ve seen Adele restart a song. And dozens of other notable professionals as well. What I have never seen is someone at that level play a song badly for four minutes straight… Other than Chuck Barry on stage with Yoko Ono

 

[dkelley]

If they're trying to write a song and need that kind of assist, they're beyond help.

When I collaborate, I expect that the person I'm working with knows the idiomatic elements of the genre and has sufficient repertoire to have a conversation about the structural elements of the song and how to extrapolate them out in a novel way. At the very least, the equivalent of Grade 2 RCM and some jazz chord theory.

Not knowing even the notes on their instrument is way beyond the pale.

same, but less eloquently said.

 

[MegaSwing]

I remember, a long time ago, I encountered someone at a gig, during a break, who tried to convey to me some music he was working on by saying, ‘Play a couple of these and a couple of those.’ I told him, without being a jerk, ‘Friend, you’re going nowhere fast if you don’t know the names of the notes you’re playing.’

Jeez! I knew the locations of all the notes on my neck before I had even a minute of music theory. I mean, how can you write words without knowing letters?

 

[Stranger Danger]

Not everyone is as intolerant as you. Neither of you would last long, based on one comment each.

Dude what?

 

[MegaSwing]

You get what you pay for.

‘You don’t always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.’ —Don King

 

[chuck1073]

Tough to call yourself a musician....with no knowledge of music. Without a foundation of knowledge it's just "wiggling your fingers". (a Jaco thing)

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I worked with someone on two songs. One of them I was writing the music. I told her in messenger which notes to play in the verse. 'I don't know what any notes are. I go by the string and fret'. This same one had written the first song we worked on. She had to tell me the bassline with 'That string that fret' all on the 6th string, where 'B A G' would have done. I found it easier to play on the A string for the first two bars. The first time I did that, she freaked out. She screeched 'You're playing the wrong notes!'
I played her opening B and mine. 'They're the same note. Listen.' She was truly disappointed in herself for going only by string and fret. She still didn't bother to learn a note, though.
Another guitarist refuses be told what chords are in a song. 'I can play well enough by ear' and 'I don't want to learn open chords'. He's been told many times about his lead breaks not being right for the chords. 'What do mean?'
It took three goes to get him to understand what DADGAD tuning is. 'Tune the E strings to D and the B string to A' was too hard for him. This same guitarist once started a song riff in the wrong key in a gig. I stopped the song and told him the mistake, which he seemingly couldn't hear. He explained that he'd tuned the bottom string a tone out. That was with a tuner. He's no longer in the band.

If you can’t communicate with somebody, it isn’t worth the effort to maintain the relationship. When it come to players that can’t hear when something is wrong, it’s not worth maintaining the relationship. If somebody is not motivated to learn correct parts, it’s not worth maintaining that relationship.

I get your frustration, but hopefully going forward, a little better job of vetting players might be a good idea.

 

[Engle]

how odd.... why not just play a short scale guitar? exactly the same thing LoL... isn't it? edit: or do I have that backwards? it's been a backwards kind of day... LoL

If the acoustic guitar can't take full tension, sometimes it will be OK in Db or D. You can capo it back to being in E. You have effectively reduced the scale length. But the markers are in the wrong spots

 

[Jazzdogg]

Watch out for "survivor bias." The successful musicians are the ones who survived all of the things they did wrong. They have a 100% chance of success. A beginner doing the same things has a roughly 0% chance.

The question with a beginner is whether it's worth giving them that chance, and then it's completely a judgment call.

A guitarist who had not learned the names of the notes, nor how to play by ear, would be very low on my list of lost causes worth rescuing.

I don't know about y'all, but I've always preferred to play with people I could learn from; better musicians than I.

In a teaching capacity the priorities are different. Among those I have taught/mentored, dor those who expressed an interest in "going pro," I believe it's important to teach not just the instrument, but the "best practices" of working pros:

For example, a list of things pros do that makes them pros; let's see which of these skills are your strengths, and which ones should be prioritized for additional development?

 

[Slater]

I believe in Western music there are 12 notes. If someone could learn one note a month, in a year they would be aces!

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Several famous guitarists can’t read music
Srevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton, Tommy Emmanuel

 

[dkelley]

If the acoustic guitar can't take full tension, sometimes it will be OK in Db or D. You can capo it back to being in E. You have effectively reduced the scale length. But the markers are in the wrong spots

haha the markers keep it adventurous!

 

[MegaSwing]

Several famous guitarists can’t read music
Srevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton, Tommy Emmanuel

Supposedly, Wes Montgomery didn’t know the names of some of the chords he played, but there’s a LOT of music theory to have a functional grasp of before one gets to that level.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Several famous guitarists can’t read music
Srevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton, Tommy Emmanuel

Sight reading and knowledge of music theory are related but one doesn't imply the other. I have a good understanding of theory. I know all the notes on the fret board, etc., etc. I struggle with sight reading. Not being able to read music doesn't imply you don't understand music theory.

 

[fdeck]

I don't know about y'all, but I've always preferred to play with people I could learn from; better musicians than I.

In a teaching capacity the priorities are different. Among those I have taught/mentored, dor those who expressed an interest in "going pro," I believe it's important to teach not just the instrument, but the "best practices" of working pros:

For example, a list of things pros do that makes them pros; let's see which of these skills are your strengths, and which ones should be prioritized for additional development?

I think that to some extent, the rock 'n' roll era was a backlash against the professional musician, and a return to more of a folk music-approach. The instruments had fairly gentle learning curves. A person could buy a guitar, and with or without a few lessons, get to the point where they could passably accompany themselves or function in a band of like-minded people. The professional musicians and mainstream teachers were horrified, and largely dismissive of the popular music that developed out of that era. I remember this.

At the same time, that era produced a lot of great music, and overturned the industry. Perhaps music styles requiring more training, such as jazz, were starting to sound stuffy, or becoming more and more esoteric.

Granted, that scene still supported a cadre of professional players who learned the popular styles, and could do things like support touring bands, or make high quality commercial recordings. According to Carol Kaye, the touring bands and recording bands for the major acts were often different groups of people.

Today, even the pages of TB reflect these two "cultures," if you will. Neither is a clear favorite. Mixing those two approaches together is still a juggling act.

 

[arbiterusa]

Well, this is why anyone auditioning for me gets a sheet of music. A simple piece. But my life is far too short to deal with people who can’t play.

 

[jbhaugh]

Several famous guitarists can’t read music
Srevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton, Tommy Emmanuel

maybe they can’t read, but I bet if you asked them where an F# is on the neck they could find a couple

 

[dkelley]

Several famous guitarists can’t read music
Srevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton, Tommy Emmanuel

this isn't about reading music. Knowing what you are playing and reading and writing music are not the same thing.

 

[Engle]

Supposedly, Wes Montgomery didn’t know the names of some of the chords he played, but there’s a LOT of music theory to have a functional grasp of before one gets to that level.

Wes Montgomery didn’t read, but he was fluent in the language.