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Players that won't learn a note

#64
themickster said:
Such folk are like Connor McCleod in Highlander, on being told to get a better sword.
McCleod: My claymore's good enough for me.
Ramirez: That's because your fighting's only good enough for the claymore.

They're only as good as what little theory they know.
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You have it backwards. Theory describes music. Music doesn’t spring from theory, theory is a way to record and describe what musicians do.

We’d be missing an awful lot of great music if only people steeped in theory were allowed to create it.
 
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#65
themickster said:
'I don't know what any notes are. I go by the string and fret'.
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I'm one of those people. I have ADHD with the added joy of social anxiety. I can probably tell you where a couple of the notes are but that's it. With my social anxiety, at least I don't enter into situations where my inabilities are throwing a monkey wrench in with other musicians. Musically, I only play along to YouTube videos and the only reason why I do that is because my enjoyment of what I'm doing outweighs my ability to concentrate on any type of theory. If that makes sense.
 
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#66
themickster said:
I worked with someone on two songs. One of them I was writing the music. I told her in messenger which notes to play in the verse. 'I don't know what any notes are. I go by the string and fret'. This same one had written the first song we worked on. She had to tell me the bassline with 'That string that fret' all on the 6th string, where 'B A G' would have done. I found it easier to play on the A string for the first two bars. The first time I did that, she freaked out. She screeched 'You're playing the wrong notes!'
I played her opening B and mine. 'They're the same note. Listen.' She was truly disappointed in herself for going only by string and fret. She still didn't bother to learn a note, though.
Another guitarist refuses be told what chords are in a song. 'I can play well enough by ear' and 'I don't want to learn open chords'. He's been told many times about his lead breaks not being right for the chords. 'What do mean?'
It took three goes to get him to understand what DADGAD tuning is. 'Tune the E strings to D and the B string to A' was too hard for him. This same guitarist once started a song riff in the wrong key in a gig. I stopped the song and told him the mistake, which he seemingly couldn't hear. He explained that he'd tuned the bottom string a tone out. That was with a tuner. He's no longer in the band.
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#67
The distinction here is between "players" and musicians.

I get that rock is an aural tradition, but you've got to be pretty darn good to get away without being able to converse with the band in basic musical terms.

I had a band leader, good songwriter, but limited music education. He kept telling me to "keep it in the box" and it took me a while to realize he wanted me to play lines in pentatonic minor.

I get the rebellious rock star rejection of formal music education, but it sure makes my job easier if the rest of the band understands some music fundamentals.
 
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#71
As I chase originals projects for the most part, I end up playing with singer/songwriters who often play guitar to at least a modestly good level (some are outstanding).
I have found myself in the OP's situation at times and I end up having to decide if the original material is worth the challenge of playing with someone of modest technical musicianship skills. Sometimes I do, sometimes I walk away. On the ones I stick with, I do try to bring a degree of common musical knowledge so we can communicate and collaborate more easily. This has worked out pretty well for me over the past 18 years or so.

Alt tunings like DADGA don't bother me at all ... it's just chords with the guitar voiced a bit differently. The thing that still bugs me with guitar players who have limited/modest skills/knowledge is the whole "what key is this song in ?" and their use of the capo. Capo 3 is not a key :laugh:

we live, we learn

enjoy!
 
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#76
LBS-bass said:
You have it backwards. Theory describes music. Music doesn’t spring from theory, theory is a way to record and describe what musicians do.
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Exactly. As a very simple example, on the first day our harmony teacher played a perfect cadence for us, I thought "Oh, yeah, I've heard that a billion times". Then she played an imperfect cadence and I'd heard that too, plenty of times. Then she played us a plagal cadence and I'd heard that too, much less often. The names of musical structures aren't necessary but they're really useful when trying to quickly communicate musical ideas to other musicians.
 
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#77
themickster said:
Not everyone is as intolerant as you. Neither of you would last long, based on one comment each.
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:wideyed: where's that coming from?

hey, at least you know some notes, so there's that. if you know more notes than your auditioners = teach! then let go. reduce the drama. move on. good luck! :thumbsup:
 
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#78
sabre79 said:
I'm one of those people. I have ADHD with the added joy of social anxiety. I can probably tell you where a couple of the notes are but that's it. With my social anxiety, at least I don't enter into situations where my inabilities are throwing a monkey wrench in with other musicians. Musically, I only play along to YouTube videos and the only reason why I do that is because my enjoyment of what I'm doing outweighs my ability to concentrate on any type of theory. If that makes sense.
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Many, most, if not almost all musicians have ADHD and some degree of social anxiety, you're in good company. A lot of performers are more comfortable on-stage than in a crowd, myself included. And note the high rate of self-medication among musicians to deal with the associated problems.

Don't know what your level of difficulty is and I certainly wouldn't presume to advise you what to do. Music can be good for your soul no matter how or at what level you engage with it. But many, many people w/ ADHD have been able to learn and usefully employ musical knowledge.
 
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#79
themickster said:
I found it easier to play on the A string for the first two bars. The first time I did that, she freaked out. She screeched 'You're playing the wrong notes!'
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That's why she tells you String and Fret; If she just gave you just the notes you might play any old location and not get the tone she wanted and you did; It is her song:)

It's OK if you felt the A sounded better in context of song and she agreed but not because it is easier IMHO
 
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