Please educate me on fretless side markers...

[MD]

Aren't the side markers off on a fretted bass too? If they were "on" they would be right at the fret end. Since you don't literally fret on the fretwire, you're fretting at the "wrong" place (or before the fret...which is right).

No. The side markers for a fretted bass are correct. You place your finger on the marker, but the fret stops the string, not your finger. The fret is the note. That's my theory anyway, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[coy garcia]

I almost always play fretless with sidemarkers. Depending on the setup of sting action, neck angle etc sometimes the dots feel a little off. I practice with a tuner at first to know where..then I either adjust the the intonations of the instrument or my finger positions. If I need reminders on a dark stage I borrow my daughters white nail polish and mark them. . Playing fretless to me feels so much more expressive and I'm hooked...

 

[40Hz]

In all honesty, sometimes salesmen tell you what you want to hear. I know because I'm surrounded by them at work. That is why I'd rather ask the players than a company rep from a lesser-known manufacturer.

Seriously? What possible incentive could they have for not being truthful about something like that? It’s one thing to not believe everything you’re told. But being suspicious to that extent on a simple question like that one borders on being a little ridiculous.

 

[smtp4me]

There's a lot of controversy about this topic, but in my experience a lined fretless is the most practical way to go. You'll completely avoid the dot issue, because the lines will be exactly where the frets would be. So you'll basically know where you're at, and since your fingers aren't as precise as lines your ears will do the rest. Unlined fretless gives you style points I guess, but it's easy to play an out-of-tune note right when you come in, before you have a frame of reference. Studio time is expensive so why waste takes trying to look cool, that's just my opinion of it.

Yeah for some fretless players, it seems to be a badge of honor to play unlined. If it's what they prefer, fine. I had been playing bass for about 35 years when I first picked up fretless about 5 years ago. I figured lined fretless would be easier as I learned to play, and now I am fine staying with it - not worried about cool points.

 

[JIO]

Yeah for some fretless players, it seems to be a badge of honor to play unlined. If it's what they prefer, fine. I had been playing bass for about 35 years when I first picked up fretless about 5 years ago. I figured lined fretless would be easier as I learned to play, and now I am fine staying with it - not worried about cool points.

Agree - instead of pulling out the superiority card, just be happy that others are playing any fretless as an option to express themselves.

 

[whero]

My two cents:
From your bass list, the Sire and Squier are lined anyway. I think some of the current Ibby SR range are too, but I don't know about the 1993 SR505 specifically. If you have a particular one in mind, surely the photos will tell you.

I'm not sure I've ever seen an unlined fretless that has the dots between where the frets would be, but they may well exist.

But don't underestimate your ability to compensate. If you're used to looking at the neck while you play, your brain will soon make the "mental adjustment" to tell your fingers to position themselves slightly ahead of the dots.

 

[40Hz]

an exhilarating feeling of just a blank plank

Huh? That I do not get at all. It has zip to do with the end result. If you can play a fretless bass in tune and in time, with good tone, and it serves the music, how you got there is entirely superfluous. Or so I think anyway.

 

[Maxdusty]

I've owned and played both lined and unlined but I'm primarily a fretted bass player and have owned and played fretless sporadically. I can only speak for myself of course, but switching back and forth between fretted and fretless, I find lined with the side dots where they normally are on a fretted instrument is much easier especially if I haven't played much fretless in some time - keeps things consistent. So I prefer lined with dots where they should be. I don't spend enough time with a fretless or that dedicated to it to be very comfortable and have no problem adjusting like some. I still need my trainer wheels. lol
I don't care if some may look down on the fact that I'm playing a lined fretless as long as what I'm playing on it sounds good. Ultimately, that's what matters most, it doesn't sound any different.

Edit: to the OP - the goal is to learn and have fun with a fretless if you haven't had much time with one. There's more of a learning curve with the unlined, and an easier transition with the lined. Find one that suits your needs and your level of dedication in learning it.

 

[Jean-Claude55]

The problem with lined fretless bases is that learners tend to spend a lot of time looking at their fingers, in consequence they play in uncomfortable positions - either bent forward and looking down when seated or moving the bass out of the vertical when standing. These are easy ha

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

So, I have quite a few basses but as of yet, I don't have a single fretless. In fact, as I think about it, I'm not positive that at any point in history I've ever played a fretless. But I feel the need to add one to my collection because... well, it's nice to have options. I keep hearing people saying about certain models "The side fret markers are in the wrong place." I don't want to buy my first fretless and find out that this is the case with my new purchase. So, TBers, how do I determine if any prospective fretlesses have the markers in the right/wrong place? Extra points if you can give examples of brands that have markers in the right places and ones that are totally off. (also, specifically wondering if Wolf brand basses are correct/incorrect) I want to buy a fretless that will make my transition as easy as possible. Thanks in advance!

Get a lined fretless. That way you can at least check your intonation. Let alone be able to play it in key.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

The problem with lined fretless bases is that learners tend to spend a lot of time looking at their fingers, in consequence they play in uncomfortable positions - either bent forward and looking down when seated or moving the bass out of the vertical when standing. These are easy ha

Everybody does.

 

[Maxdusty]

The problem with lined fretless bases is that learners tend to spend a lot of time looking at their fingers, in consequence they play in uncomfortable positions - either bent forward and looking down when seated or moving the bass out of the vertical when standing. These are easy ha

That may be true for some but not true for all lined fretless basses. The lines carry over to the top side on some models so the bassist doesn't have to bend forward to see where their fingers are, it's no different from playing a fretted bass. No contortion needed.

borrowing Jio's picture from the previous page. what I mean is this in referring to the lines carrying over to the side.

 

[IronLung1986]

The problem with lined fretless bases is that learners tend to spend a lot of time looking at their fingers, in consequence they play in uncomfortable positions - either bent forward and looking down when seated or moving the bass out of the vertical when standing. These are easy ha

I have to say I don't agree that this is a legitimate drawback of lined fretless specifically. I think it's just as likely that any new player, fretted or not, will fall into the habit of looking at the fretboard too much. I also don't think that unlined fretless does anything to deter this habit.

 

[coy garcia]

Lined vs unlined is really a personal preference like color. Don't see any real advantages to either...imo

 

[Jean-Claude55]

Sorry, my computer is having a hissy fit, had to re-start it. What I meant to say was:

...easy habits to get into, less easy to get out of later. They also give serious problems when reading. If you want to play fretless properly, get an unlined bass without dot markers on the neck, practice playing by reading scales and exercises, concentrate on posture and bass position and LISTEN to your intonation.
It's worth remembering that the world is full of violinists, cellists and double bass players who play accurately with unmarked finger-boards and rarely look at their fingers. it is largely a matter of practice, practice and practice.

 

[micguy]

The Jaco tribute bass has them in the "wrong" place because it's a copy of Jaco's bass, which, had them in the wrong place, because...it started life as a fretted bass. Most fretless basses are done right.

I disagree about lined fretless basses not having this problem. I play on a lot of dark stages, and the tiny bit of line on the side of the neck that you can see on a lined fretless usually isn't very visible where I am. Even if it is, it's not obvious which line you're looking at at a given time. If you can see the lines (or position markers) on the front of the fingerboard, you're hunched over your bass in a bad ergonomic position. I really don't see lines on a fretless as an advantage is seeing where you are, because of this. I need good, solid, visible side dots. On my fretless, I've added more dots on the maple part of the neck to make things more obvious.

 

[StatesideRambler]

This problem completely goes away if you get a lined fretless

That’s true as well of an unlined, undotted fretless.

 

[darwin-bass]

The side dots on a fretted bass are position markers. The note is actually at the fret. O an unlined fretless the dots are either position markers or fret markers.

Position markers indicate your general position on the neck. The note where the missing fret would be, not where the dot is.

Fret markers are different. They mark the fret positions. Historically the same side dots are used as fret markers by just moving them a bit to align with the fret positions.

If you're thinking "position markers" like on a fretted bass, then having them in the fret positions will be confusing because they moved your markers to the wrong place. If you're thinking "fret markers" than not moving them to align with the frets would be ... pointless.

As others have said, all this goes away with lined fretless.

 

[JIO]

That may be true for some but not true for all lined fretless basses. The lines carry over to the top side on some models so the bassist doesn't have to bend forward to see where their fingers are, it's no different from playing a fretted bass. No contortion needed.

borrowing Jio's picture from the previous page. what I mean is this in referring to the lines carrying over to the side.
View attachment 3951453

The lines carrying over to the sides is inevitable if lined simply because a saw-blade cuts the line which has a certain depth and is then filled with some material. Whether it is on a fretted bass position or a fretless bass position will determine where it is fretted to achieve the correct note

 

[Maxdusty]

Sorry, my computer is having a hissy fit, had to re-start it. What I meant to say was:

...easy habits to get into, less easy to get out of later. They also give serious problems when reading. If you want to play fretless properly, get an unlined bass without dot markers on the neck, practice playing by reading scales and exercises, concentrate on posture and bass position and LISTEN to your intonation.
It's worth remembering that the world is full of violinists, cellists and double bass players who play accurately with unmarked finger-boards and rarely look at their fingers. it is largely a matter of practice, practice and practice.

Yup, that's just it and I agree with you on this. It requires a certain level of dedication in learning to play fretless this way. It's certainly a worthwhile endeavor in developing a keener sense of intonation. If you're mainly a fretted bass player but only an occasional fretless dabbler, I'm suggesting it might be a good option to consider a lined fretless.