Please educate me on fretless side markers...

[BurningSkies]

Nope, I clearly see a difference. Look at the relationship to the upper horn cut where it contacts the neck and the dot placement -
View attachment 3951104
The dot on the fretted is almost exactly in line with where that horn contacts the neck. The dot on the fretless is clearly "down" some.

@B-Mac is right, the fretless has the dots located where the fret line would be.

I'd concur on this one. And really, any fretless should have the markers as such. Mine has them in the middle but it's a conversion, so that's what you'd expect. If it's an unlined board I'd certainly hope they're on the 'fingering' points.

 

[QweziRider]

I'm sorry but to me, that looks in between. The markers appear to be in the exact same position as on the fretted. Second opinion, anyone?

Look at the side markers right where the upper horn meets the neck. Different places between fretted and fretless.

Edit: @TerribleTim68 beat me to it.

 

[nilorius]

I think that mostly they are correct - in the midlle of the fretlines, as to side line dots - they are, too, but some brand models put them right under the fretlines, like on my Fender Jaco tribute.

 

[40Hz]

Assuming I'm leaning towards unlined fretless (because I'm looking at Wolf basses), will the markers being basically shifted a half-step off mess with my finger positioning? I mean, if I know the double marker is the 12th fret, my instinct tells me to finger just above that. Again... please forgive my ignorance because I know nothing about fretless. I just don't want to make a purchase I'll regret later.

A simple query directly to Wolf would answer your question quickest.

FWIW nothing is “basically” anything with regards to that. Some makers put them on the “frets“ others between them. You have to ask.

 

[Claymore]

Nope, I clearly see a difference. Look at the relationship to the upper horn cut where it contacts the neck and the dot placement -
View attachment 3951104
The dot on the fretted is almost exactly in line with where that horn contacts the neck. The dot on the fretless is clearly "down" some.

@B-Mac is right, the fretless has the dots located where the fret line would be.

I was looking towards the very bottom of the fretboard. I can totally see it now. Well, that's encouraging because the Wolf was the one I was really considering and now I know that their markers are accurate. Thanks, guys.

 

[Claymore]

A simple query directly to Wolf would answer your question quickest.

FWIW nothing is “basically” anything with regards to that. Some makers put them on the “frets“ others between them. You have to ask.

In all honesty, sometimes salesmen tell you what you want to hear. I know because I'm surrounded by them at work. That is why I'd rather ask the players than a company rep from a lesser-known manufacturer.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I'm sorry but to me, that looks in between. The markers appear to be in the exact same position as on the fretted. Second opinion, anyone?

No, they're not in the same position. The fretless dots are moved forward slightly, right where the frets *would* be.

This issue seems far more blow out of proportion than it should be. I've played many fretless basses over many years and maybe came across one that had the dots in the wrong place. I know others have their own anecdotal evidence, but the vast majority of fretless basses are going to have dots over the position of the corresponding frets.

IME, anyway.

 

[BAG]

You really won't need the dots after 15 minutes once your hands get used to where the notes are on the fingerboard.

You may not, but I certainly need the side dots on my unlined fretless.
My ear is good enough to hear when my intonation is off a little, but not good enough that I can discern whether i'm a tiny bit flat or sharp. And when i'm moving my position up or down the neck I generally need a bit of a guide. I'm certainly getting better at it and my ear has improved but that's after many, many, many hours of playing it.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

So, I have quite a few basses but as of yet, I don't have a single fretless. In fact, as I think about it, I'm not positive that at any point in history I've ever played a fretless. But I feel the need to add one to my collection because... well, it's nice to have options. I keep hearing people saying about certain models "The side fret markers are in the wrong place." I don't want to buy my first fretless and find out that this is the case with my new purchase. So, TBers, how do I determine if any prospective fretlesses have the markers in the right/wrong place? Extra points if you can give examples of brands that have markers in the right places and ones that are totally off. (also, specifically wondering if Wolf brand basses are correct/incorrect) I want to buy a fretless that will make my transition as easy as possible. Thanks in advance!

I think you have your answers, but as a general observation over a very long period of time;

Lined fretless necks have the dots in the same location in relation to the lines as the dots would be if the lines were frets, which is between the lines / frets. This applies to manufactured basses. As mentioned, manufacturers try to set up to do as few changes as possible when building, so they make all necks the same, but if they want to build a run of fretless necks, the only change is they install some kind of strip instead of a fret, and maybe use a nut with deeper cut slots.

Unlined fretless necks usually have side dots only and those dot are located at the point where the fret or line is placed on a fretted neck or lined fretless. To me, the side of the neck is easier to see, so if I’m playing a lined fretless and need a visual reference, I’m looking at the end of the line. If I’m playing an unlined fretless, I’m looking at a side marker dot, and if I’m playing upright, I’m winging it the best I can....

 

[vvvmmm]

I think dots on the fretboard might be more of an issue, but the side markers are just used for a quick orientation and the - I'm all ears.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

I personally like them in the normal fretted neck positions, but I know a lot of players don't. I'm just very used to referencing them where they've always been, so it's something I don't have to think about UNLESS they're in the 'right' (wrong for me) positions. Play one of each if you're able, if you're a longtime fretted player you may well feel about them the way I do. They're just suggestions anyway, the size/softness of your finger pads, string tension, and other variables will make it so your ears have to be your intonation.

 

[drumvsbass]

I play upright, no markers of any kind, I have a deferetted PBass with dots in the middle between where the frets were, I also had an unlined fretless RBass and don't remember if it had dots or where the were if it did. You really won't need the dots after 15 minutes once your hands get used to where the notes are on the fingerboard. (although I cheated once on a recording session where I had to make a huge leap of faith to a note way up the fingerboard and put a piece if masking tape where the note was so I wouldn't miss it ... saw the bassist from Lake Street Dive do that and thought it was a good idea).

Ahhh, the voice of fretless reason. The upright guy. I always feel like the DB players must giggle at night reading the back and forths of the fretless electric. I play both lined and unlined, there is a training wheel safety to lines which is nice, but an exhilarating feeling of just a blank plank which is also nice. I had a wedding gig this weekend, which I took my unlined Zon to. During the the night, the stage and tent lights would come on and off intermittently leaving the band in the dark... I earned a new badge of honor. Jazz standards on an unlined fretless in the dark. (places feather in cap)

 

[Claymore]

Ahhh, the voice of fretless reason. The upright guy. I always feel like the DB players must giggle at night reading the back and forths of the fretless electric. I play both lined and unlined, there is a training wheel safety to lines which is nice, but an exhilarating feeling of just a blank plank which is also nice. I had a wedding gig this weekend, which I took my unlined Zon to. During the the night, the stage and tent lights would come on and off intermittently leaving the band in the dark... I earned a new badge of honor. Jazz standards on an unlined fretless in the dark. (places feather in cap)

I think there is a merit badge for that. If not, there should be.

 

[JIO]

I have a custom lined fretless with the lines on the notes. It didn't have side dots so I added them at each line/note as on a standard fb.

 

[monkeyland]

The side dots are either going to be placed as though the bass had frets (dot between frets) or dot where fret would be placed.
It is easier if the dot is placed where the fret would be, but I play either.
This problem completely goes away if you get a lined fretless

live never seen an unlined fretless that has the dots between notes like on a fretted bass. That would be a ridiculously dumb thing to do.

 

[MD]

I have a custom lined fretless with the lines on the notes. It didn't have side dots so I added them at each line/note as on a standard fb.

View attachment 3951316

View attachment 3951317

Perfect example of a lined fretless with side dots in the "correct" locations.

OP - I have three fretless basses, two are defrets. On the defrets, you can vaguely see the lines or side dots. If I stop a note on the fretline, it's on pitch. If I stop the same note on the side dot, it's a quarter tone flat. Why? Because the neck/board was built to be fretted. This is why the vast majority of off the shelf, factory fretless basses will have side dots in the wrong locations.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Aren't the side markers off on a fretted bass too? If they were "on" they would be right at the fret end. Since you don't literally fret on the fretwire, you're fretting at the "wrong" place (or before the fret...which is right).

 

[B-Mac]

live never seen an unlined fretless that has the dots between notes like on a fretted bass. That would be a ridiculously dumb thing to do.

They’re out there

 

[bbh]

For the easiest transition, I recommend a lined neck with the same side markers you’d see on a standard fretted neck. Use the lines as guides and disregard them as necessary. Just like the side markers. You’ll find that to be in tune, you’ll make adjustments by ear.

 

[JIO]

Aren't the side markers off on a fretted bass too? If they were "on" they would be right at the fret end. Since you don't literally fret on the fretwire, you're fretting at the "wrong" place (or before the fret...which is right).

Yes - you are correct. But in this case it is an established "given" that most players are aware of and accept. The term "splitting hairs" comes to mind...