POLL: instrument volume knob settings

[Two-Spirit]

Well, a recent post got me wondering where most bassists here like to set the volume knob(s) on their instrument. For these purposes I'm just focusing on wide open volume versus anything less. Also, let's just focus on live performances because in the studio can be way different.

I have always played with the volume knob on my basses wide open, fully loud, and adjust my pedals and amp to that setting. I use my fingers for dynamics. As a sometimes-sound-guy, I feel this is the most effective way to keep a consistent signal going to FOH, and it offers the best sound quality/signal to noise ratio, IMHO. It also helps most of my effects pedals to have a full signal hitting them.

So chime in. Do you play live with your volume knob all the way up, or somewhere less than that?

I usually turn it up but my bass is active, a Cirrus. so it could be barely on and still sound good. I think it sounds better between 7 and 10.

 

[Two-Spirit]

Depends on the bass, the amp and the context.

W my Fender and Squire J basses - always fully on to the max.
W my Modulus basses - generally Unity Gain - 50%.
I have many gain stages and ways to juice the front end of my amp, including the fact that 3 of my 4 electric basses are active, several of my pedals provide added output mmph (for lack of a better word) and the last thing my signal chain hits before slamming my amp is a Felix by Grace Designs (Preamp) with tons of EQ, Gain and Boost options.

So, 5 is unity gain?

 

[SDH]

Volume and Tone @ 75%....that gives me some leeway in either direction. Plus, I like how it sounds!

 

[silvertone]

So, 5 is unity gain?

I may have mis-used the term: Unity Gain.

A definition I found online is:
The idea of “unity gain” is essentially that when passing audio through a piece of gear, if the output level is the same as when the device is not in the signal path, “unity gain” has been achieved — input equals output, level-wise.

I just meant the volume pot on my mods tends to stay around 50%.

 

[micguy]

That sounds great, thanks for the info.

Do you have a link to where a bass player can look if they decide to try this mod? It's a wonder more manufacturers aren't already using it.

It's not all this simple of a mod - you need humbucking pickups to start with, and you wire the halves in parallel rather than in series. Then you load them with a capacitor that.....you gotta figure out the value of, and to do that, it'd helpful to know what your preferences are in terms of the frequency you like your resonant peak at. I have a box with a rotary switch and a bunch of different capacitor values - one way I (or a client) pick the cap value is trial and error, using that box. Another way I also do it by measuring the impedance of the pickups, then modelling them and simulating the whole system in Spice (a circuit modelling tool). The pots I use are generally (though not always) 100K's - with the lowered impedance from everything in parallel, those are apropriate - they sound like 400K's would if the pickups were wired in series, as everything moves by a factor of 4.

In case you're not confused yet.....

Once you've got that, then you get to decide if you want any "creative" circuitry - I've done this a couple dozen times for myself and a few clients, and the possibilities of things you can do are pretty daunting. I've never actually wired a bass that's like a "normal" P or J bass - there's always some twist I do to make the thing work better for the person using it. In fact I've never wired 2 basses alike. On my jazz bass, for example, in the J mode (there's a mode switch on the bass), at low frequencies, it's just the neck pickup, so you don't lose low end like a J does when mixing in the bridge pickup. However, at mid and high frequencies, both pickups are there. And the tone controls (there's one for the J mode, one for the P mode, do somewhat different things - the P mode goes from normal down to about what you'd expect fully off, but in the J mode, it goes from wide open to...snarl - a sound you won't hear from any "regular" Jazz bass. Actually, anywhere on the tone control, the sound in the J mode is different than you can get from any regular jazz bass.

After all this has been said, the simple way to think of this is I wire basses like a good audio engineer (someone who designs pro audio gear for a living, but is a bit creative) would because....I am one. When I talk about this stuff here, people don't....get it. But, if I tell another audio engineer about it...they don't even have questions, unless it's about why companies like Fender don't do things this way.

Actually the reason they don't? The first reaction you will have if you unplug your bass, and plug in one of mine is....it's lower in output. If you realize you have a volume control on your amp, and and turn it up, and then play with the knobs on the bass, eventually, you'll realize why I do it. But....in a music store, the first impression is negative, and Fender and the other companies won't take the chance of losing a sale due to that one thing. Kids in Guitar Center don't notice subtleties when trying stuff out - who could in that envrinonment? My clients are folks that are usually older, that have played for quite a while, appreciate nuances, and they have an idea of what they'd LIKE their bass to do (but haven't been able to achieve that). I help them (using what I know from a few decades of designing audio stuff, and playing bass, and wiring basses) get there.

Whew! Asl me what time it is, I tell you how to design an atomic clock. Sorry 'bout that. I could have just said "its too complicated to explain", but you might not believe me. Now, maybe you do?

 

[SLO Surfer]

“always" ain't "usually"

For this thread’s purposes, it is.

I figured the “always” people would click the usually one. Trying to include more people with my verbiage. If you always dime it, click the first choice. If you never dime it, click the second option. If you’re too picky to decide on my options, choose the third option. There’s carrots there which should cover it all, imho

 

[Just George]

On my Wilkins P/J with Fralins with a +5 wind on the P and stock wind on the Split J...
Neck-100%,
Bridge-70-80%
Tone-85-90%

Of course this totally depends on the room acoustics and the volume levels of the band
and style of music.

 

[electracoyote]

It's not all this simple of a mod - you need humbucking pickups to start with, and you wire the halves in parallel rather than in series. Then you load them with a capacitor that.....you gotta figure out the value of, and to do that, it'd helpful to know what your preferences are in terms of the frequency you like your resonant peak at. I have a box with a rotary switch and a bunch of different capacitor values - one way I (or a client) pick the cap value is trial and error, using that box. Another way I also do it by measuring the impedance of the pickups, then modelling them and simulating the whole system in Spice (a circuit modelling tool). The pots I use are generally (though not always) 100K's - with the lowered impedance from everything in parallel, those are apropriate - they sound like 400K's would if the pickups were wired in series, as everything moves by a factor of 4.

In case you're not confused yet.....

Once you've got that, then you get to decide if you want any "creative" circuitry - I've done this a couple dozen times for myself and a few clients, and the possibilities of things you can do are pretty daunting. I've never actually wired a bass that's like a "normal" P or J bass - there's always some twist I do to make the thing work better for the person using it. In fact I've never wired 2 basses alike. On my jazz bass, for example, in the J mode (there's a mode switch on the bass), at low frequencies, it's just the neck pickup, so you don't lose low end like a J does when mixing in the bridge pickup. However, at mid and high frequencies, both pickups are there. And the tone controls (there's one for the J mode, one for the P mode, do somewhat different things - the P mode goes from normal down to about what you'd expect fully off, but in the J mode, it goes from wide open to...snarl - a sound you won't hear from any "regular" Jazz bass. Actually, anywhere on the tone control, the sound in the J mode is different than you can get from any regular jazz bass.

After all this has been said, the simple way to think of this is I wire basses like a good audio engineer (someone who designs pro audio gear for a living, but is a bit creative) would because....I am one. When I talk about this stuff here, people don't....get it. But, if I tell another audio engineer about it...they don't even have questions, unless it's about why companies like Fender don't do things this way.

Actually the reason they don't? The first reaction you will have if you unplug your bass, and plug in one of mine is....it's lower in output. If you realize you have a volume control on your amp, and and turn it up, and then play with the knobs on the bass, eventually, you'll realize why I do it. But....in a music store, the first impression is negative, and Fender and the other companies won't take the chance of losing a sale due to that one thing. Kids in Guitar Center don't notice subtleties when trying stuff out - who could in that envrinonment? My clients are folks that are usually older, that have played for quite a while, appreciate nuances, and they have an idea of what they'd LIKE their bass to do (but haven't been able to achieve that). I help them (using what I know from a few decades of designing audio stuff, and playing bass, and wiring basses) get there.

Whew! Asl me what time it is, I tell you how to design an atomic clock. Sorry 'bout that. I could have just said "its too complicated to explain", but you might not believe me. Now, maybe you do?

Interesting and helpful info. I have cut and pasted it for future reference. Thanks much.

 

[Stugilliam]

Passive bass= 100% for faster attack, a bass specific line in a song.
Passive bass= less than 100% for thicker tone and better blending with the song
Active bass= where the pre sounds it's best, best headroom and less noise, studio or live!

 

[Cutter8]

It's not all this simple of a mod - you need humbucking pickups to start with, and you wire the halves in parallel rather than in series. Then you load them with a capacitor that.....you gotta figure out the value of, and to do that, it'd helpful to know what your preferences are in terms of the frequency you like your resonant peak at. I have a box with a rotary switch and a bunch of different capacitor values - one way I (or a client) pick the cap value is trial and error, using that box. Another way I also do it by measuring the impedance of the pickups, then modelling them and simulating the whole system in Spice (a circuit modelling tool). The pots I use are generally (though not always) 100K's - with the lowered impedance from everything in parallel, those are apropriate - they sound like 400K's would if the pickups were wired in series, as everything moves by a factor of 4.

In case you're not confused yet.....

Once you've got that, then you get to decide if you want any "creative" circuitry - I've done this a couple dozen times for myself and a few clients, and the possibilities of things you can do are pretty daunting. I've never actually wired a bass that's like a "normal" P or J bass - there's always some twist I do to make the thing work better for the person using it. In fact I've never wired 2 basses alike. On my jazz bass, for example, in the J mode (there's a mode switch on the bass), at low frequencies, it's just the neck pickup, so you don't lose low end like a J does when mixing in the bridge pickup. However, at mid and high frequencies, both pickups are there. And the tone controls (there's one for the J mode, one for the P mode, do somewhat different things - the P mode goes from normal down to about what you'd expect fully off, but in the J mode, it goes from wide open to...snarl - a sound you won't hear from any "regular" Jazz bass. Actually, anywhere on the tone control, the sound in the J mode is different than you can get from any regular jazz bass.

After all this has been said, the simple way to think of this is I wire basses like a good audio engineer (someone who designs pro audio gear for a living, but is a bit creative) would because....I am one. When I talk about this stuff here, people don't....get it. But, if I tell another audio engineer about it...they don't even have questions, unless it's about why companies like Fender don't do things this way.

Actually the reason they don't? The first reaction you will have if you unplug your bass, and plug in one of mine is....it's lower in output. If you realize you have a volume control on your amp, and and turn it up, and then play with the knobs on the bass, eventually, you'll realize why I do it. But....in a music store, the first impression is negative, and Fender and the other companies won't take the chance of losing a sale due to that one thing. Kids in Guitar Center don't notice subtleties when trying stuff out - who could in that envrinonment? My clients are folks that are usually older, that have played for quite a while, appreciate nuances, and they have an idea of what they'd LIKE their bass to do (but haven't been able to achieve that). I help them (using what I know from a few decades of designing audio stuff, and playing bass, and wiring basses) get there.

Whew! Asl me what time it is, I tell you how to design an atomic clock. Sorry 'bout that. I could have just said "its too complicated to explain", but you might not believe me. Now, maybe you do?

Very generous of you to take the time to share all that.

Of course, I have to admit that I felt better about myself before I read it...

Oh well, it’s probably healthy for me to be reminded occasionally that I’m not nearly as smart as I imagine myself to be.

 

[Two-Spirit]

Clo

I may have mis-used the term: Unity Gain.

A definition I found online is:
The idea of “unity gain” is essentially that when passing audio through a piece of gear, if the output level is the same as when the device is not in the signal path, “unity gain” has been achieved — input equals output, level-wise.

I just meant the volume pot on my mods tends to stay around 50%.

Close enough for me.

 

[micguy]

Very generous of you to take the time to share all that.

Of course, I have to admit that I felt better about myself before I read it...

Oh well, it’s probably healthy for me to be reminded occasionally that I’m not nearly as smart as I imagine myself to be.

You’re probably just smart about something different than me.

 

[Cutter8]

You’re probably just smart about something different than me.

That is true, but the crap I’m smart about is really boring and will never make anyone’s bass sound better!

 

[dtsamples]

Dynamics. Rocking tune 100%. Mellow tune or ballad, less than that. Then set so digging in dimed clips a bit and medium-to-light playing dimed is normal playing volume. Reduce volume and dig in for punch but not clipping, reduce volume and play light for legato or arco-esque passages. Same for finger- or pickstyle.

 

[dtsamples]

That way you can dial back a bit and not feel like you need to play timidly, and when the band invariably gets louder as the night goes on, you've got some headroom to keep up.

 

[rufus.K]

Depends on the bass, the band, and the song.
Sometimes dimes.
Sometimes variable.

 

[BMGecko]

Volume knob 100% open.

And I use a volume pedal rather than wasting a hand that could be playing the instrument if I want to do some kind of volume-based effect.

 

[BasEd]

Quote from Carol Kaye... “
You keep the volume pots open only about three-fourths the way, never fully open on the instrument - the sounds are better that way...”

 

[gkella]

Can I ask why wide open on the bass instead of the amp?
As someone who is relatively new to bass, I have been volume up on the amp and not so much on the bass.
I play a Stingray 4HHbSpecial and have a Mark Bass amp.