Double Bass Poll on use of tablets / Ipads

[fdeck]

Definitely on my list of things to try now. Thanks for that.

 

[sean_on_bass]

i am pretty flexible and OK with using either paper or tablets. maybe there are more specific situations that favor one vs the other. for example the convenience of popping up a chart in iReal on a tablet rather than flipping through binders of Real Books. I still like paper quite a bit though, like for multi page arrangements as well as the fact that it doesn't need batteries.

one thing i want to bring up, is that i work with alot of older musicians who are pretty technically challenged and could never manage to digitize their charts or even navigate a tablet. but they are amazing musicians at the same time. if you think flipping through pages is bad, wait until you experience the suffering of someone totally crashing out over not being able to get to the right page or app or file on their ipad.

as for charts used on stage at all...i have no problem with them, but i also feel that memorizing tunes is extremely important and shouldn't be bypassed, especially in a jazz context. if the band is playing a tune they all know inside and out, you tend to get a better performance and better interplay. there is also something to be said for the ability to hear your way through a tune which you will be deprived of if you always lean on a chart.

 

[Don Kasper]

As a 71yr old longtime dues paying member of the Paper and Pencil Union, I've moved the (possibility of) Tablet/Pad usage from my Bucket List to my **ck It List.
iPad??? No...More like uPad!
I'm turning the page on this discussion.
IMFO, of course.

 

[Steven Ayres]

i work with a lot of older musicians who are pretty technically challenged and could never manage to digitize their charts or even navigate a tablet. ... if you think flipping through pages is bad, wait until you experience the suffering of someone totally crashing out over not being able to get to the right page or app or file on their ipad.

This happens, of course, and it happens when players adopt the tech without understanding how to use it effectively. My alto player is near 80, the president of a manufacturing company focused on technology for radio and television, so no technophobe, and he was enthusiastic about bringing in his wife's old iPad to handle charts the same way the rest of us do. But he brought with him the idea that using it would be easy and intuitive (what I call the Apple myth), so we wind up spending at least ten minutes of every rehearsal helping him get out of jams due to errant fingers and mental models of how it 'should' work.

If you're thinking of getting into this for stage use, it's important that you have the time and curiosity to work through the capabilities of the machine and its software, so you know not only the standard procedures but the alternates and workarounds that can work better for you in general or in a pinch. A turn pedal is pretty much required, and you have to practice with that as well, just as you would with an eight-page big-band bass chart with no turn breaks. You also have to have a good grasp of how file systems and wifi work, and a mind organized enough to be able to correctly visualize where files are in your own system and the cloud, and how to organize and display them quickly and efficiently.

 

[AndyMopley]

All fine - but I guess the paper-brigade ;-) will be a thing of the past, within the next 5 years I reckon...This is also based on the increased use of tablets I am seeing at many concerts, classical or big bands..
The other thing to remember is that a digital edition saves on space to hold files, and will also allow the transfer from one player to the next. I've been involved in situations where the band "chart keeper" has died, and the spouse has been asking people to pick up the (many charts) left behind...

 

[DJ Bebop]

Do you know who we have to thank, or curse for electronic sheet music on the bandstand?

Harry Connick Jr.

Was the first to use computer monitors on stage to replace traditional sheet music during his concert tour in 1999 . He outfitted his entire 16-piece big band with rotatable-screen blue and white G3 Power Macs to read electronic sheet music , an innovation for which he later received U.S. Patent 6,348,648.

Connick was inspired to invent this electronic music distribution system after a blustery outdoor performance caused his orchestra's paper sheet music to blow around . He arranged his big-band scores using Finale from MakeMusic (formerly Coda Music Technology) to display them digitally . This system was later showcased in major performances like the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City.

 

[JazznFunk]

All fine - but I guess the paper-brigade ;-) will be a thing of the past, within the next 5 years I reckon...This is also based on the increased use of tablets I am seeing at many concerts, classical or big bands..
The other thing to remember is that a digital edition saves on space to hold files, and will also allow the transfer from one player to the next. I've been involved in situations where the band "chart keeper" has died, and the spouse has been asking people to pick up the (many charts) left behind...

Bold of you to assume that. iPads have been around for what.... 15 years now? Paper charts have existed for decades.... centuries in fact. So 'I reckon' your opinion regarding their rumored demise in 5 years' time isn't as 'global' as you may think.

One thing to remember is that paper charts can always be copied and re-constructed if the 'chart keeper' has died and no one has access to their (digital) files.... or if the computer holding the digital files becomes inoperative. Or the cloud goes 'poof' where they're stored. As for 'allowing the transfer from one player to the next'... I've handed many a book of well-crafted, printed, organized charts to another player when needed.

Charts/important documents are media like anything else. Relying only on digital media for important things guarantees that at some point, they will cease to exist. They must have electricity to work and be accessed. Paper is always right there, in your music archive. I have bandmates from college who routinely ask me if I have X chart lying around that they wrote 25+ years ago because they know I hold on to stuff like that. I've even done them a favor by transcribing/transferring their charts into digital PDF form so they have them in both formats.

Never rely ONLY on digital storage/media.

/end lecture

 

[Steven Ayres]

Never rely ONLY on digital storage/media.

I don't disagree, but let's not overstate the reliability of paper. For many years I've been a member of an international group trading big-band charts, one of its primary functions having been to help members replace parts that band members lose, destroy by accident or fail to return when they leave, and I've watched as these bands, many of them very old-school, have almost uniformly adapted, built digital libraries and come to rely on them as primary.

 

[JazznFunk]

I don't disagree, but let's not overstate the reliability of paper. For many years I've been a member of an international group trading big-band charts, one of its primary functions having been to help members replace parts that band members lose, destroy by accident or fail to return when they leave, and I've watched as these bands, many of them very old-school, have almost uniformly adapted, built digital libraries and come to rely on them as primary.

I think that's more of a statement about the tendency of players to lose or misplace paper charts (an occupational hazard of the format for sure), versus the longevity and reliability of paper charts in general. I can still play the gig without power, or if an iPad battery fails. That's where I'm coming from.

I also definitely recognize the very specific nuances for certain situations which might make digital-only charts more pragmatic. An international big band? Yeah, that makes more sense to go digital in terms of sharing information more quickly and more easily - as long as everyone is able and willing to absorb the cost of committing to that sort of thing. At that level, for that size of an ensemble, I can see that being the better option. I'm also all about redundancy regardless of what the end product is. I'll give you a PDF, and I'll be ready to provide printed charts as well.... or give the player the option to choose. And I'll always have a printed copy of the chart around somewhere for my own archives.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I play occasionally for a leader who has put every fake book-type chart he uses on large screens he controls from one source. That's not so bad from a reading standpoint mainly because these are much larger than ipad screens and don't involve any pedals or other extras. Each screen has its own stand which means extra hauling and setup but it does eliminate some other issues. I don't know how many tunes are in the library but it must be in the hundreds.That must have taken many hours to put together. On a related topic, I'm less and less happy as time goes on with those charts that have only chord changes. I'd like the melody and rhythm if I have to look at a sheet or tablet.JMO

 

[Steven Ayres]

The survey results are interesting. The subject range selects for members of Talkbass, of course, so I'd expect to see a higher proportion of technically comfortable people in them, but 70% is still a pretty strong endorsement, with another 15% anticipating tablet use, reluctantly and otherwise. Given the increasing rate of technical innovation we can probably start thinking about how our choices will be evolving in the coming five years.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Do you know who we have to thank, or curse for electronic sheet music on the bandstand?

Harry Connick Jr.

Was the first to use computer monitors on stage to replace traditional sheet music during his concert tour in 1999 . He outfitted his entire 16-piece big band with rotatable-screen blue and white G3 Power Macs to read electronic sheet music , an innovation for which he later received U.S. Patent 6,348,648.

Connick was inspired to invent this electronic music distribution system after a blustery outdoor performance caused his orchestra's paper sheet music to blow around . He arranged his big-band scores using Finale from MakeMusic (formerly Coda Music Technology) to display them digitally . This system was later showcased in major performances like the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City.

Expensive way to replace some clothespins!

 

[sean_on_bass]

All fine - but I guess the paper-brigade ;-) will be a thing of the past, within the next 5 years I reckon...This is also based on the increased use of tablets I am seeing at many concerts, classical or big bands..

me thinks that won't happen until society moves away from paper and ink completely, which may never happen in our lifetime

 

[Bruce Calin]

I played a symphony orchestra gig over the weekend and saw several more players with tablets. I didn't realize until I asked how long some of them had been using them, in some cases several years. Who knew? I also did hear the horror stories, however. I don't plan on converting. Maybe somebody will give me an iPad I still think I would have a hard time reading a screen for that long under those circumstances, not to mention some of the possible issues.

 

[PBandJazzBass]

To be fair, one of the biggest reasons I started using an iPad was because I got one for free.

 

[Turnaround]

Tablet, all day long.

Not only does the tablet contaian all my music, it also manages set lists, rehearsals and performances. In performance, when I select a song from the sett list the tablet sends the appropriate preset to the mixer for specific vocal effects, etc., as well as sends song specific presets to the keyboards. The app also has a metronome that gives me a click in my in-ears. Page turning can be done by tapping the screen or by a wireless foot pedal.

By comparison, paper is pretty limited.

 

[JazznFunk]

The survey results are interesting. The subject range selects for members of Talkbass, of course, so I'd expect to see a higher proportion of technically comfortable people in them, but 70% is still a pretty strong endorsement, with another 15% anticipating tablet use, reluctantly and otherwise. Given the increasing rate of technical innovation we can probably start thinking about how our choices will be evolving in the coming five years.

There's always a way to carve out confirmation bias for sure. The 'increasing rate of technical innovation' doesn't mean those innovations will be practical, or even more useful than the original concept it was supposed to replace.

 

[BassinCT]

Much of my playing with adult and youth choirs involves reading through piano/choral scores that are sent to me as PDF- typically no bass parts. I always print a backup copy, but do the rehearsals and performances with an iPad + page turner. Some of the scores will have as few as six measures per page which gets old fast. Before deciding, I always ask myself if the iPad is going to make the gig run more smoothly- if not, it's paper!