Double Bass Pop songs for a jazz gig?

[iAsh]

Anything played with complete sincerity is valid. Even if it’s not to your taste it’s valid.

Consider the vast number of hits that have been written post Great American Songbook. If there aren’t a few you can play with sincerity maybe you don’t have the disposition or imagination to enjoy restaurant gigs.

Since replying to a thread like this without attempting to answer the original question could be seen as self indulgent here are a few older pop songs that have worked for me.

So Lonesome I Could Cry -Hank Williams
Wheat Kings -The Tragically Hip
Ripple -Grateful Dead
Whipping Post -Allman Brothers
Natural Woman -Carol King
Both Sides Now -Joni Mitchell
Pancho and Lefty -Townes Van Zandt
Have a Little Faith in Me -John Hiatt

 

[brianrost]

I had a great experience with a mentor about listening to music on the way to the gig. He didn't like to, he said he preferred to start from nothing. I had give it serious consideration. I decided that I was into it because I wanted to start from a particular point in history.

Damon,

That really strikes a chord with me.

I had a Sunday night residency in Cambridge, MA for about 6 years. I would leave my house at 7PM and turn on WGBH-FM which ran a 7-8PM show called "The Jazz Decades" hosted by Ray Smith (RIP), a trad jazz drummer and an expert on jazz history. He played exactly ten songs in each show (most 3 minutes or less, being from 78s), the rest, almost a half hour, was historical commentary...who, what, when and where related to the songs he was playing. He played jazz from the 20s and early 30s, cutting it off at the beginning of the big band era. He also played some contemporary artists playing in that style like Warren Vache or Jim Cullums. I learned everything I know about early jazz from listening to some 300-odd shows over that period.

On the way home from late night weekend gigs I'd tune in WGBH or WBUR and listen to legendary Boston DJs like "Stereo Jack" Woker and Tony Cennamo who were encyclopedias of modern jazz. Jack Woker knew he had lots of musicians driving home tuned into his show and would have a "mystery tune" contest every week. Almost every week Rich Lataille, the alto player in Roomful of Blues, a jump blues band based in Rhode Island, would call in and correctly name the artists and tune. This being before cell phones, I always figured that on the weeks Rich didn't call in he had a longer drive and didn't make it home in time.

I understand what your mentor meant, though. I know a guy who ran a large sound company for years and did major gigs like the N.O. Jazz Fest and a couple of presidential inaugurations. He's also a very good bassist. He told me he never listened to music when he was off the job. Driving to or from a show, he and his crew would listen to talk radio.

He had two reasons. The first was he just wanted to give his ears a rest. The second was that after watching the best of the best in every style of music performing hundreds of times a year why would he want to listen to recordings?

 

[notabene]

" a few older pop songs that have worked for me.


Ripple -Grateful Dead"

I love to play Ripple.

I figure I have a right to, since, as sax and flute player, I was recorded on a number of Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia records, and played/toured with the Jerry Garcia Band.
As a side note, I recently began to get royalties from a J. Garcia record I was a sideman on, for which I was paid as a sideman for, at the time. I have never before recieved royalties, from 30-years-later sales, as a sideman. It was solely through the graciousness of the Garcia family that I now gratefully (pun?) get that income. And, I am at an age where such actions touch me.



Steven

 

[bassmanbrent]

He told me he never listened to music when he was off the job.

I don't know if anyone else will find this amusing, but here goes... In Vancouver (my hometown), there was a very well know and successful dance band/society gig band leader that played piano. He led a big band at a major hotel here until the late 70's, and was very well known locally. Apparently, for a long portion of his later career, he didn't own a piano. When someone asked him why, he said something like "I play the piano 25 hours a week at this hotel. Why would I need one at home?"

 

[statsc]

I really don’t see what all hubbub is around this! If you like the tune, if the audience likes it, if you can play it expressively, if it enhances the gig, then play it! Will you lose your “jazz cred” by playing a Grateful Dead tune? Oh please! Truth be told, creativity and musicianship added to any of these tunes can turn them into something really special. Seems like a no-brainer to me (maybe I have no brain)!

 

[TroyK]

I can be difficult on this topic and I'll start by saying that I come down pretty close to @damonsmith .

Putting myself aside for a second, there was a really valid point made earlier that I don't think got clarified or resolved. Did the owner, who likes you and has given you a raise and recognized that his crowd is responding to you in a positive way really request pop songs or is it the piano player's intuition that you should be playing them? Or maybe that's what the piano player is into. If the owner said anything at all, was it in response to the piano player suggesting it? Was it a passing comment or was it "hey, I like you guys working here, but if you want to keep the gig, this is something that I want." I personally would want to understand clearly what was said and in what context.

I enjoy lots of different types of music. I've been listening to a lot of soul, R&B, and Rock-a-billy lately. James Hunter Six, Leon Bridges, JD McPhearson, Little Jackie, Kat Wright etc. I like some of what is showing up in top 40 now too. I'm a child of the 80s and still think that the New Wave was extraordinary and underrated music - The Jam, Buzzcocks, Squeeze, Producers. It is possible, but tough to play those with jazz instrumentation in the midst of a jazz set and have it come across well.

I also love jazz. I love playing it and I love hearing it. I find that some people playing jazz kind of feel the need to apologize for it, but I don't. I want to share it with people and I think they will like it too. That's the whole artistic thing "I love this Joe Gordon composition and we really enjoy playing it, here it is, check it out". If it doesn't go over then we didn't do it service or we were in the wrong room, but that's the music that I want to play and share. Most of the time, that works out for me if I'm in a group that has similar conviction.

Who is the bandleader in your scenario? I do play with bandleaders who are not 100% aligned with me musically and as someone else said, if what they do is 100% sincere and they have found their place and people who will respond to it then I can *try* to be their bassist. Sometimes it is fun and rewarding for me, sometimes it's not and sometimes I'm probably not the best bassist for that gig because, I just don't hear or feel what they are going for.

But, sometimes bandleaders or members seem to want to pull us in that direction as sort of an apology or concession for the fact that we play jazz and I just personally don't want to be involved in that. It all depends on the motivation and whether or not you can pull it off. In your situation, without knowing more, it would bother me to water down our repertoire unless a) it was a freelance gig and the bandleader was paying me to play what they call without regard for how I felt about it or b) you needed to do a reasonable little bit of it to keep a good recurring gig or c) the band wanted to go in that direction and I was convinced that it would make us a better group.

 

[damonsmith]

I really don’t see what all hubbub is around this! If you like the tune, if the audience likes it, if you can play it expressively, if it enhances the gig, then play it! Will you lose your “jazz cred” by playing a Grateful Dead tune? Oh please! Truth be told, creativity and musicianship added to any of these tunes can turn them into something really special. Seems like a no-brainer to me (maybe I have no brain)!

There is zero hubbub when it stays this simple. The issue with the immense power of pop music is that it rarely does. The quick response tends to have the group add another, and another. The presenter then asks the next group hired to add some pop rep. and so one.Then the "jazz" club has So & So "Plays the Grateful Dead", next night: someone or the other "Plays David Bowie & the Talking Heads" The next band is "Playing the music of Prince". We've seen this play out by now.
These songs don't become massive hits and make millions of dollars because they are powerless. Acting like it is "no big deal" is the worst approach to this issue.
You don't loose "jazz cred" for playing a Grateful Dead song. If you use the @statsc quartet "plays the Grateful Dead" to cut in line past your elders and peers you WILL rightfully never gain their respect.
IF you engage in this is an absolute must that you understand and take responsibility for the power that a proven pop hit has over human beings.
We are having this discussion because of the power of music. We are all at this site because of the power of music. it is safe to say all of our lives are altered because of the power of music. Pretending it is "no big deal" is dishonest.

This is where you lose me. Why exactly are some jazz compositions better for improvisation as opposed to a more popular composition? It's all how you work it IMO.

It is possible for some pop of the last 60 years to provide some mildly interesting linear material. In terms of harmony, it gets far more barren. Since pop music is intended for a wider public to like, it has to be written with a less & less musically literate public in mind. That means little to no harmonic or rhythmic tension and release.
Sure, any of us can be inventive over a couple of campfire chords, but then do we really need the song? No, the song is there for the response it gets from the audience, club owners, etc.
In general the interest is really in the tone and timbre of the voice. Pasteurizing a Chris Cornell or Björk melody with cocktail jazz piano is the furthest thing from honoring that music.

 

[statsc]

For me, for the last 40 years, it has absolutely been this simple. Maybe I’m an outlier. Maybe Vermont is an outlier. Maybe that’s why I live here.

 

[brianrost]

he didn't own a piano. When someone asked him why, he said something like "I play the piano 25 hours a week at this hotel. Why would I need one at home?"

Paul Bley wrote in his memoirs that he stopped practicing piano at home, although he didn't write whether he had one or not. His reasoning was that when he got to the gig it wouldn't be his piano and every gig it would be a different piano than the last gig. He just spent a few minutes playing the piano and then he would decide what music he would play that night.

 

[damonsmith]

Damon,

That really strikes a chord with me.

I had a Sunday night residency in Cambridge, MA

Funny enough, Moses is the mentor - and it was driving from Quincy to Cambridge! The second part of the story is that talking to him on the way and listening to his stories DID allow me to feel like I was starting from a certain point in history! I was lucky enough to get about an hour of Bright Size Life trio stories on the phone today.

 

[damonsmith]

Paul Bley wrote in his memoirs that he stopped practicing piano at home, although he didn't write whether he had one or not. His reasoning was that when he got to the gig it wouldn't be his piano and every gig it would be a different piano than the last gig. He just spent a few minutes playing the piano and then he would decide what music he would play that night.

Cecil Taylor told me a about that as well. He told that story, and then said the shared a bill around that time. Then I asked him what he thought, He said, "I thought he should have practiced!". He did talk about liking his playing, though. I love both of them!

 

[Sam Reese]

Ultimately, it is a cheap and easy party trick that isn't taken seriously by many strong players for a good reason.

Cheap and easy party tricks shouldn't be taken seriously. They are fun and engaging and can be very effective. It just takes a little imagination, as in "jazz it up a little bit".

 

[Abington]

Then the "jazz" club has So & So "Plays the Grateful Dead", next night: someone or the other "Plays David Bowie & the Talking Heads" The next band is "Playing the music of Prince". We've seen this play out by now.

I get this concern for venues which are specifically focused on jazz - I'd rather that, if I go to a jazz club, they aren't booking bands which feature a lot of modern pop music. I have had some discussions about this with bluegrass players as well. Bluegrass is similarly built on a tradition of reinterpreting popular music in a distinctive improvisational style, and, similarly, there is a temptation to "bluegrass" pop songs to appease a broader audience which many die-hards find distasteful.

To maintain discrete musical traditions in the modern era it might just be necessary to create strong barriers around them. However, to be honest, I am not on the same page as you in terms of how much I value maintaining artistic purity - especially when it is at the expense of audience enjoyment. I've found that, for me, audience reaction is just as rewarding as maintaining artistic purity.

As far as the OP's situation, I think that they are bang on with the idea of leaning more heavily on well-known tunes in the jazz tradition if they wanted to get a better reaction from the audience.

 

[Sam Reese]

In spite of how "fun" it might be interpreting pop songs in jazz, more accessible jazz tunes might certainly do the trick. Also, same goes for bluegrass repertoire choices. I don't mind a little novelty in my show, but I'm not entrenched in a jazz club or bluegrass environ.

 

[J_Bass]

I was lucky enough to get about an hour of Bright Size Life trio stories on the phone today.

I would love to hear about that, if it's adequate, of course.

Directly from Bob Moses? Uau, what can you tell us?

 

[notabene]

I guess I don't understand what a "jazz" tune is. For me, what makes "jazz" is a dedication to improvisation, and a commitment not to play a tune the same exact way each time it is performed, which requires listening, not quoting yourself. That a song form appears, or doesn't appear in a Real Book, or needs to have built in bop era chord changes, or substitutions, doesn't seem part of defining "jazz" to me. If Louis Armstrong is jazz, and Charlie Parker, and Cecil Taylor are jazz, what besides the dedication to improvisation is the common tie? There is a canon of tunes that have become foder for improvisation based on familiarity, so strangers can instantly play together. Is any song with "I Got Rhythm" changes "Jazz"? Was the original version of "I Got Rhythm" jazz?.
Sometimes catagorization can become the enemy of understanding (bumper sticker?).

Let the fur fly.

Steven

 

[statsc]

I guess I don't understand what a "jazz" tune is. For me, what makes "jazz" is a dedication to improvisation, and a commitment not to play a tune the same exact way each time it is performed, which requires listening, not quoting yourself. That a song form appears, or doesn't appear in a Real Book, or needs to have built in bop era chord changes, or substitutions, doesn't seem part of defining "jazz" to me. If Louis Armstrong is jazz, and Charlie Parker, and Cecil Taylor are jazz, what besides the dedication to improvisation is the common tie? There is a canon of tunes that have become foder for improvisation based on familiarity, so strangers can instantly play together. Is any song with "I Got Rhythm" changes "Jazz"? Was the original version of "I Got Rhythm" jazz?.
Sometimes catagorization can become the enemy of understanding (bumper sticker?).

Let the fur fly.

Steven

Oh no; here we go down the “What is Jazz?” rabbit hole!

 

[dan1952]

What's "GB"?

I'm having a hard time understanding why they "don't allow for improvisation." A good number of what we think of as jazz standards began life as pop songs.

This, EXACTLY!!!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

What's "GB"?

General Business.

I'm having a hard time understanding why they "don't allow for improvisation." A good number of what we think of as jazz standards began life as pop songs.

^^^^^^^This.

 

[J. Montgomery]

FYI, most of us on the DB side of TB are a bunch of old and middle aged dudes, and not a source of information on what's new OR popular.

With that disclaimer, there's plenty of stuff on the pop radio that could be translated into a trio with a little creativity.