I think that was to mean you don't usually play it, not that it didn't exist... As was discussed, it depends on the sound you are going for. You can certainly play the 9th if you want to.
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Practical difference between a 6 chord and a 13 chord when walking?
- Thread starter Bass Momma
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I think that was to mean you don't usually play it, not that it didn't exist... As was discussed, it depends on the sound you are going for. You can certainly play the 9th if you want to.
I have been meaning to break out my six string and restring it EADGBE, esp. since I spending more time on a jazz guitar site. Now I am going to do it. Going to get me some b9#11. I am not sure if they are extensions or alterations, so I am just going to call them "zazzy".
Beautiful. Without the bass it's a Bbma7(#11). Love it.
A C in the bass.
Surprisingly simple, huh?
Unless you're being pedantic by differentiating between the correct #11 tension and the incorrect natural 11 void note, those two statements are contradictory:
If the chord symbol C13 "implies all the extensions below by default" and you explicitly don't want to hear the #11 you do have to indicate a symbol like C13(add9, no 11). Or C13(add9, no #11) if you prefer.
Chord symbols are shorthand. The problem is, as soon as you try to use them to indicate concepts that can't be easily condensed and comprehended with shorthand symbols, they fail.
fwiw one of my favorite chords is a dominant 7sus4 with the major 3rd on top, so that you get that major 7th interval between the 4(11) and the 3. Of course, technically (and sonically) the major third is the tension in that case; it's a very piquant and unique variation of the sus4 chord, not a major triad with an extra tension/extension. But if you've never heard one, check it out!
Groove Master
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Yes I agree that chords notation is far from perfect. My reply was regarding the wiki page about the thirteen chord. Having a basic knowledge about harmony rules is a big help when interpreting chord symbols. Unfortunately it is not standarized yet. I spent the last 40 years sight-reading charts daily as a studio player and yes I've seen them all. And they should make sense on first sight. You don't have time to analyze them. If a writer wants a specific voicing then it should be written in the right order and span.
As for the sus4 and major third played together, yes that rule can be broken if musically it is well construct like in some guitar voicing as a cluster or in a very fancy harmony when the specific voicing is written as notes and not as a chord symbol for the best result.
C9(add13) is the standard and common way to notate such chords.
Groove Master
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That is one way, not the standard way since there is none to this day. It depends. Even in the States there was huge differences between Berklee and L.A.
Could you elaborate, please, the need for C9 (add13) instead of C13?
Just to make sure that 11th is included?
Groove Master
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To my knowledge it is exactly the same chord because every educated musician will know that the 11 is omitted in this chord just like the third is omitted in a C11. And a simple notation like C13 is way much easier and faster to read, analyse and play then a symbol with a bunch of extras for nothing.
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Groove Master
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C11 is getting less and less used. Bb/C is a great way to express the same sound in a very musical way. The comp players will know immediately how to voice it. The fifth is always the first note to remove in a voicing when you have to take a note out of the voicing. But there is no problem to include it it, even in the bass ;-)
And for the record it could be notated like this also: Bb6/C or Gmin7/C
I see that you did included it in your edit ;-)
The musical context will help decide the best way to indicate the desired sound with the proper symbol imo.
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Just to make sure that 11th is /not/ included. But, as @Groove Master said: any educated musician would leave out the 11th by default.
Yes, I know there are differences, and that there is no universally agreed standard. But, some things are more standard than others.
