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Precarious situation?

#83
AudioTaper said:
That depends on the kit and the type of music
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I hear ya. For more MOR type stuff, yeah it makes sense. But most rock gigs, nah.

I was in an 80's rock tribute thing with a drummer who was just a really strong guy. From Texas, no less. :) Sweetheart of a guy, and he knew his volume was an issue. He tried different sticks, different snares, everything he did was just loud. That was just his sound. Bless him for it.

I'll never be the guy to tell someone else what to play, because I hate it when it happens to me. For a good drummer to be asked to play an electronic kit, that's like asking me to play a midi bass with plastic strings.

As a side note, one band was going down the road of IEMs. I bought some, did my everything to get used to them. I didn't even mind eliminating the onstage amp. But I HATED not being able to hear how the music blended in the natural air.

One thing I've never used is an acoustic drum shield. I think they look awful, but if it helps with the stage volume and keeps the drums as they should be, I'm all for it.
 
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#85
foolforthecity said:
Kipp, I promised a couple of photos of my standard gigging rig, so here they are... so nice to have it all in one simple package, and note for our configuration that the case top doubles as a perfect stand for both my single cab rig as well as a monitor stand for the drummer.

I know you were looking more for an immediate solution to your cab layout, but man I’d respectfully offer up that you sell the Fender bottom and use that cash to help fund a MESA head, then follow that with an additional Subway cab if/as needed. But that’s just me rambling on as I don’t know your specific needs, but wanted you to see this anyway for ideas. FYI, these photos were from last night’s outdoor gig at a big BBQ joint, audience area roughly 100ft wide by 150ft deep. 10 x 40 stage lifted about 16 inches (BOOM BOOM BOOM, notice my Broughton I use to help tame stages like this). This little rig is so powerful that we backed me out of the FOH mix, just not needed.

...and a compound photo from last night thrown in for good measure LOL

View attachment 3873091 View attachment 3873092 View attachment 3873093 View attachment 3873094 View attachment 3873096
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And you use a 112 by itself? I tried that. Man did I find it disappointing. The only 112s that I have had good results with were, ironically for this discussion, Rumble V3 112. I had 2 of them and boy were they nice. And, they were very deep by themselves, moreso than any other 112 I have ever used (including Schroeder).
 
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#90
bdplaid said:
I'll never be the guy to tell someone else what to play, because I hate it when it happens to me. For a good drummer to be asked to play an electronic kit, that's like asking me to play a midi bass with plastic strings.
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Yeah, I wouldnt tell anyone what to play. But I might bring it up in conversation

I used to work at a small independent music store chain. The manager was a really good drummer and was all for us plugging the then new top-of-the-line Roland V Drums into the demo PA setup. I thought it sounded pretty good, but then I'm not a drummer.
 
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#92
bdplaid said:
And you use a 112 by itself? I tried that. Man did I find it disappointing. The only 112s that I have had good results with were, ironically for this discussion, Rumble V3 112. I had 2 of them and boy were they nice. And, they were very deep by themselves, moreso than any other 112 I have ever used (including Schroeder).
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Hey bdplaid, yes, what you see is exactly what I use for the majority of gigs, all by itself. Now mind you, I’m in a four-piece band with a BL/lead singer/acoustic/harmonica, an electric lead gtr, a drummer, and myself. Several factors surround my being able to play on a single 112, which for me is a TRUE blessing.

First, there’s not a lot of backline competition. Our drummer and his sub are both tight pocket drummers that focus on clean, crisp sounds without a lot of heavy-handedness. The BL’s acoustic goes direct sans onstage amp. This in itself is huge. Each member gets a blended sampling of other instruments and vocals as needed into their own onstage monitor, and each auxiliary monitor out has just enough of what each needs to hear to keep ourselves comfortable without overdriving the stage volume. Our goal is to always keep levels onstage as low as we can without straining to hear others but conversely to avoid volumes that interfere with individual onstage instrument volumes and get into the FOH mix (nasty).

Our gigging configuration is bass SR, drums SC upstage, BL/lead vox/acoustic SC downstage, lead guitar SL. Acoustic and vox only as needed in everyone’s individual monitor. Against conventional modern thought, I can hear the drummer’s snare quite well without it being overbearing (crack, crack, crack, all friggin’ night, yuck, where’s the Tylenol) from SR quite well. The ride cymbal, that I can handle. Lead guitar projects so well in this quieter onstage setup that I barely use any aux monitor for that, saving yet more onstage sonic space. My cab sits up a bit as shown in earlier pics which projects more to my head rather than my knees (my ears aren’t located there). All this onstage sonic conservation sums to me being able to use a single 112 and get punch, clarity, tightness, and tone all rolled into one cab.

With exception of our BL, the rest of us also play in other bands of differing musical types/configuration and sub as needed randomly. For some of those sub gigs I somewhat begrudgingly bust out a larger rig if their sonic reputation proceeds them, but I’m not in the appliance-moving business and hate pushing around refrigerators.

For the few festival-grade big stages I play annually, I add the 115 to this configuration, but that’s only a small handful of shows each year. Remember, I’m a bottom feeder, so you won’t likely see me on the big gilded cage anytime soon. Clubs, bars, dinner joints, dancehalls, and private parties are my domain. If we’re in need of a bigger sound, we’ll, that’s what our FOH subs are for, but again they are used little to none for the majority of our gigs. The lead guitar rarely uses FOH either, which frees up our FOH for basically vocals/acoustic guitar/harmonica, kick, and a bit of snare if/as needed, resulting in a cleaner FOH sound.

We’re old-school. We don’t monkey around with IPADs etc and someone constantly fiddling about with the sound. We configure the overall sound for close to maximum output, then ACTUALLY LISTEN to each other and ourselves critically (imagine that!), adjusting instrument and vocal dynamics in realtime while playing. By not having somebody noodling around to “optimize” the FOH sound and creating wasted noise, squeals, and assorted havoc we’re free to concentrate with much more freedom and less stress.

Finally, I’m playing with pros that are really sensitive to the overall sound rather than themselves. Again, a blessing to the nth degree.

Wow, I’ve bloviated once more. Sorry for that! Better pack up my bass and get on to tonight’s festival of bottom-feeding, hope this all explained clearly why I can get away with this small rig, patiently waiting to come back out of the trailer yet again.
 
#93
foolforthecity said:
Hey bdplaid, yes, what you see is exactly what I use for the majority of gigs, all by itself. Now mind you, I’m in a four-piece band with a BL/lead singer/acoustic/harmonica, an electric lead gtr, a drummer, and myself. Several factors surround my being able to play on a single 112, which for me is a TRUE blessing.

First, there’s not a lot of backline competition. Our drummer and his sub are both tight pocket drummers that focus on clean, crisp sounds without a lot of heavy-handedness. The BL’s acoustic goes direct sans onstage amp. This in itself is huge. Each member gets a blended sampling of other instruments and vocals as needed into their own onstage monitor, and each auxiliary monitor out has just enough of what each needs to hear to keep ourselves comfortable without overdriving the stage volume. Our goal is to always keep levels onstage as low as we can without straining to hear others but conversely to avoid volumes that interfere with individual onstage instrument volumes and get into the FOH mix (nasty).

Our gigging configuration is bass SR, drums SC upstage, BL/lead vox/acoustic SC downstage, lead guitar SL. Acoustic and vox only as needed in everyone’s individual monitor. Against conventional modern thought, I can hear the drummer’s snare quite well without it being overbearing (crack, crack, crack, all friggin’ night, yuck, where’s the Tylenol) from SR quite well. The ride cymbal, that I can handle. Lead guitar projects so well in this quieter onstage setup that I barely use any aux monitor for that, saving yet more onstage sonic space. My cab sits up a bit as shown in earlier pics which projects more to my head rather than my knees (my ears aren’t located there). All this onstage sonic conservation sums to me being able to use a single 112 and get punch, clarity, tightness, and tone all rolled into one cab.

With exception of our BL, the rest of us also play in other bands of differing musical types/configuration and sub as needed randomly. For some of those sub gigs I somewhat begrudgingly bust out a larger rig if their sonic reputation proceeds them, but I’m not in the appliance-moving business and hate pushing around refrigerators.

For the few festival-grade big stages I play annually, I add the 115 to this configuration, but that’s only a small handful of shows each year. Remember, I’m a bottom feeder, so you won’t likely see me on the big gilded cage anytime soon. Clubs, bars, dinner joints, dancehalls, and private parties are my domain. If we’re in need of a bigger sound, we’ll, that’s what our FOH subs are for, but again they are used little to none for the majority of our gigs. The lead guitar rarely uses FOH either, which frees up our FOH for basically vocals/acoustic guitar/harmonica, kick, and a bit of snare if/as needed, resulting in a cleaner FOH sound.

We’re old-school. We don’t monkey around with IPADs etc and someone constantly fiddling about with the sound. We configure the overall sound for close to maximum output, then ACTUALLY LISTEN to each other and ourselves critically (imagine that!), adjusting instrument and vocal dynamics in realtime while playing. By not having somebody noodling around to “optimize” the FOH sound and creating wasted noise, squeals, and assorted havoc we’re free to concentrate with much more freedom and less stress.

Finally, I’m playing with pros that are really sensitive to the overall sound rather than themselves. Again, a blessing to the nth degree.

Wow, I’ve bloviated once more. Sorry for that! Better pack up my bass and get on to tonight’s festival of bottom-feeding, hope this all explained clearly why I can get away with this small rig, patiently waiting to come back out of the trailer yet again.
Click to expand...


That's quite an explanation, but I'm sorry, it disqualifies you from being on TB. It's too sensible. :-)

It sounds like a great situation. I like playing with players who listen to others in the band. My thing is I like being in groups where the players have a lot of freedom to do what they do, and one has to listen to the band in order for that to happen. I was just listening to a local band on Facebook, and while the bass player has a good deal of facility, it was quite apparent he wasn't listening to the other players. He noodled around a lot. Which is something of a crime, as the drummer was smoking. What they could have done together! I'm actually a little pissed about it...

I had a SW112, and used it alone once. I found it gave me too much of a Jaco-esque tone no matter what I did, although I did find a little thump in there by pushing the low end. It seems like it can take it. I get where you're coming from with relying on FOH; the 112 can be a great little monitor, with the low end from the FOH bouncing back and filling it in. I like when that happens, but I can't rely on it. In the end, I'm a 15 guy and always have been. Daddy likes 'em deep.

Congrats on your great situation and keep it up. It sounds like a model we could all look to.
 
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#94
bdplaid said:
That's quite an explanation, but I'm sorry, it disqualifies you from being on TB. It's too sensible. :)

It sounds like a great situation. I like playing with players who listen to others in the band. My thing is I like being in groups where the players have a lot of freedom to do what they do, and one has to listen to the band in order for that to happen. I was just listening to a local band on Facebook, and while the bass player has a good deal of facility, it was quite apparent he wasn't listening to the other players. He noodled around a lot. Which is something of a crime, as the drummer was smoking. What they could have done together! I'm actually a little pissed about it...

I had a SW112, and used it alone once. I found it gave me too much of a Jaco-esque tone no matter what I did, although I did find a little thump in there by pushing the low end. It seems like it can take it. I get where you're coming from with relying on FOH; the 112 can be a great little monitor, with the low end from the FOH bouncing back and filling it in. I like when that happens, but I can't rely on it. In the end, I'm a 15 guy and always have been. Daddy likes 'em deep.

Congrats on your great situation and keep it up. It sounds like a model we could all look to.
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A never-ending struggle by my estimation!
 

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