Professional courtesy? Or every man for himself?

[RickyWoo]

This is what I'm not getting... Why are people making it sound like people in church should be treated any differently than people outside of church? This is bizarre to me. Make sure you're making your decisions on your own values, but don't treat anyone any differently. Especially if we're getting all Christian in here.

 

[Ox Boris]

So--why did the OP ask about that angle.

He didn't. It was coincidental in stating that he knew the guy. It could have been from the newsagents and carried about as much weight in the sentence.
So, with the entire angle you insist you have been pursuing thus rendered irrelevant, it's probably a good idea that you're leaving.

 

[MDBass]

The wife is not an ex-wife until a divorce is finalized, not at the point she is unsatisfied in the relationship.
And it would have something to do with you because she sees you as being something better. An affair does not happen without opportunity.

If it's a false equivalency or apples/oranges I don't see how it's different. Someone will have to attempt to explain that difference to me.

He's not actually going to be playing with her until the "divorce" IS finalized, that's why it's obviously a false equivalency.

That, and the fact that the absurdly messy legal and emotional processes involved with a divorce (particularly those as a result of affairs) aren't even remotely similar to the hiring and firing of sidemen.

She wasn't suddenly unhappy with her bass player because of the OP; the vibe isn't right, and he's getting fired regardless of if the OP or another player who's style she prefers takes the job.

Again, the fact that you keep trying to equate the very regular process of hiring and firing musicians with an extra-marital affair clearly demonstrates your inexperience here.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't consider it a betrayal if you take the gig. Chances are he'd be out eventually whether she met you or not. The hard feelings are all on her.

 

[iTzPrime]

I don't consider it a betrayal if you take the gig. Chances are he'd be out eventually whether she met you or not. The hard feelings are all on her.

Damit JimmyM. I think I haven't found a post of you I don't agree with

 

[Joe Nerve]

I don't consider it a betrayal if you take the gig. Chances are he'd be out eventually whether she met you or not. The hard feelings are all on her.

You've got so much catching up to do .

 

[iTzPrime]

You've got so much catching up to do .

This thread is so much fun

 

[electracoyote]

Nope. Kind of shocking how many people agree with this. A rotating schedule? What?

The other player is an acquaintance, not a friend, and pulling him aside to tell him that his boss said he plays like a robot and wants to fire him in lieu of yourself to "see how he feels about it" has no upside.

How the singer deals with the current bass player is between them, period; putting yourself in the middle is both incredibly unprofessional and may very well sour the singer on giving you the gig for creating needless backtalk and drama.

People lose gigs all the time, for a variety of reasons; if you take it personally to the point of bad mouthing your successors, you're in the wrong business and will quickly find yourself unhirable.

I think the number of people who agree with it are looking at the situation a little deeper than Darwin would.

I'll concede that the timing is an issue and OP should take a wait-and-see approach. But I stand by my reasoning that he sooner or later has to let the other bassist know he didn't intentionally target and sabotage the slot, that it was the BL's idea and she who approached OP.

Also, keep in mind they share a project at their church, OP referred to him as a "buddy" in the first post, and there is no doubt a church-folk standard and etiquette at play in this situation. I get the impression from OP that he cares about this person's feelings, and I personally respect that sentiment and believe it comes with some long-term benefits. Even if the other bassist gets fired and OP replaces him, OP has to face this individual on a regular basis. It's reasonable on his part to try to make things less awkward and as painless as possible.

It's not always a matter of tough luck, survival of the fittest. Like I said, I'd be excited at the prospect of working with this singer, but I wouldn't do it completely devoid of concern for the church buddy I replaced, and I wouldn't want him thinking I instigated his firing and backstabbed him.

I've never felt sorry for the bass players I've replaced. But I never knew any of them personally before I replaced them either. That changes things.

Also, you have to take a side-long glance at the BL. She has created an awkward situation. If she's going to fire her bass player, she had better do it soon and offer the slot to OP. If not, she's a loose-lipped turd-stirrer and I would be wary of her. I'd be letting her know I'm interested in working with her, but I have a relationship with her current bass player in another project and I'd like to do this as sensitively as possible without causing undue animosity.

When it's all said and done, it is up to the old bass player to suck it up and move on down the line. But there is no shame in taking his feelings into consideration and trying to think of ways to ease the blow.

 

[MDBass]

One of the more fun and totally ridiculous threads on TB in recent memory, for sure

 

[gln1955]

This thread just keeps on...
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[RustyAxe]

Oh my ... the drama! The band's current bassist is the bassist until the diva fires him. The OP is nothing until the diva hires him. For the OP to discuss this with the current bassist is unnecessary ... there's nothing to discuss yet. Unless of course, you're like at least one guy in this thread and crave the drama.

 

[MDBass]

I think the number of people who agree with it are looking at the situation a little deeper than Darwin would.

I'll concede that the timing is an issue and OP should take a wait-and-see approach. But I stand by my reasoning that he sooner or later has to let the other bassist know he didn't intentionally target and sabotage the slot, that it was the BL's idea and she who approached OP.

Also, keep in mind they share a project at their church, OP referred to him as a "buddy" in the first post, and there is no doubt a church-folk standard and etiquette at play in this situation. I get the impression from OP that he cares about this person's feelings, and I personally respect that sentiment and believe it comes with some long-term benefits. Even if the other bassist gets fired and OP replaces him, OP has to face this individual on a regular basis. It's reasonable on his part to try to make things less awkward and as painless as possible.

It's not always a matter of tough luck, survival of the fittest. Like I said, I'd be excited at the prospect of working with this singer, but I wouldn't do it completely devoid of concern for the church buddy I replaced, and I wouldn't want him thinking I instigated his firing and backstabbed him.

I've never felt sorry for the bass players I've replaced. But I never knew any of them personally before I replaced them either. That changes things.

Also, you have to take a side-long glance at the BL. She has created an awkward situation. If she's going to fire her bass player, she had better do it soon and offer the slot to OP. If not, she's a loose-lipped turd-stirrer and I would be wary of her. I'd be letting her know I'm interested in working with her, but I have a relationship with her current bass player in another project and I'd like to do this as sensitively as possible without undue animosity.

When it's all said and done, it is up to the old bass player to suck it up and move on down the line. But there is no shame in taking his feelings into consideration and trying to think of ways to ease the blow.

If the acquaintance of the OP is indeed a friend, why would he ever think that he intentionally targeted his gig or did anything else underhanded in this situation?

How the BL feels about the current bass player is between the two of them, that's it; pulling him aside to tell him he's going to get fired and you're being considered to replace him is just toxic gossip, and neither "professional" nor "courteous".

Reassure him afterwards if you feel the need? Sure. But involving yourself in someone else's business is always a bad move.

 

[gln1955]

I think the number of people who agree with it are looking at the situation a little deeper than Darwin would.

I'll concede that the timing is an issue and OP should take a wait-and-see approach. But I stand by my reasoning that he sooner or later has to let the other bassist know he didn't intentionally target and sabotage the slot, that it was the BL's idea and she who approached OP.

Also, keep in mind they share a project at their church, OP referred to him as a "buddy" in the first post, and there is no doubt a church-folk standard and etiquette at play in this situation. I get the impression from OP that he cares about this person's feelings, and I personally respect that sentiment and believe it comes with some long-term benefits. Even if the other bassist gets fired and OP replaces him, OP has to face this individual on a regular basis. It's reasonable on his part to try to make things less awkward and as painless as possible.

It's not always a matter of tough luck, survival of the fittest. Like I said, I'd be excited at the prospect of working with this singer, but I wouldn't do it completely devoid of concern for the church buddy I replaced, and I wouldn't want him thinking I instigated his firing and backstabbed him.

I've never felt sorry for the bass players I've replaced. But I never knew any of them personally before I replaced them either. That changes things.

Also, you have to take a side-long glance at the BL. She has created an awkward situation. If she's going to fire her bass player, she had better do it soon and offer the slot to OP. If not, she's a loose-lipped turd-stirrer and I would be wary of her. I'd be letting her know I'm interested in working with her, but I have a relationship with her current bass player in another project and I'd like to do this as sensitively as possible without causing undue animosity.

When it's all said and done, it is up to the old bass player to suck it up and move on down the line. But there is no shame in taking his feelings into consideration and trying to think of ways to ease the blow.

All this is true. I think most everyone would agree that this is not an easy situation for the OP. Mabe even a moral dillema for him. If he gets the job, he'll have to talk with the other bass player about it eventually. If they both are reasonable people, it will work out.

 

[electracoyote]

If the acquaintance of the OP is indeed a friend, why would he ever think that he intentionally targeted his gig or did anything else underhanded in this situation?

How the BL feels about the current bass player is between the two of them, that's it; pulling him aside to tell him he's going to get fired and you're being considered to replace him is just toxic gossip, and neither "professional" nor "courteous".

Reassure him afterwards if you feel the need? Sure. But involving yourself in someone else's business is always a bad move.

Agreed. Upon reflection, I should have implied that it would be best to make that clear and have that discussion after the BL did the deed.

It's still a sticky situation, lots of grey in there, and that OP is having an internal struggle and opened up here seeking advice says a lot about his character. Not everyone shoots first and asks questions later.

 

[NoiseNinja]

Which is...?
Clarify for me. Humour me. Be as pithy as you like.
Or just answer this: Do you think that the very next thing that should happen, regardless of the BL, is for the OP to inform the Bass player of the conversation?

Because if you don't you should say so; and everyone one can stop talking to you as if you do. If you do, then good, everyone's on track, including you.

I'm not in charge or responsible for whatever OP chose to do, he seems like a reasonable guy, so I trust he'll do what is best.

Anyway, non of my business, I just gave him an advice as he asked for, based on what I think would be the right thing to do both morally and for his own good, weather he'll take it or not is really out of my hands.

 

[RickyWoo]

TB's version of the Crossroads.

 

[electracoyote]

I get where you're coming from in your posts. Do you feel it's more of a dilemma from the result of unfortunate circumstances or a dilemma of betrayal?

It's an unfortunate circumstance for sure. OP wants to eliminate the perception of betrayal, and I don't blame him. None of us really understands his relationship with this other musician, his level of compassion, and his moral and ethical compass. It obviously concerns OP enough to come here seeking advice.

I wouldn't want to unnecessarily burn a bridge with and turn even an acquaintance into an enemy if I could avoid it, especially one who I see and work with on a routine basis, and I would give that individual every opportunity to understand and accept that I had no malice toward him. I think OP is looking for ways to accomplish that.

Once he has, it's out of his hands and up to the other musician to accept the consequences with dignity and move on with his life. Ideally, he can do that without the burden of animosity toward OP.

 

[RickyWoo]

It's an unfortunate circumstance for sure. OP wants to eliminate the perception of betrayal, and I don't blame him. None of us really understands his relationship with this other musician, his level of compassion, and his moral and ethical compass. It obviously concerns OP enough to come here seeking advice.

I wouldn't want to unnecessarily burn a bridge with and turn even an acquaintance into an enemy if I could avoid it, especially one who I see and work with on a routine basis, and I would give that individual every opportunity to understand and accept that I had no malice toward him. I think OP is looking for ways to accomplish that.

Once he has, it's out of his hands and up to the other musician to accept the consequences with dignity and move on with his life. Ideally, he can do that without the burden of animosity toward OP.

Okay. We are on the same page. I wouldn't want to be the "other guy" in a relationship. And I wouldn't want to be that in a band either.... Which is why I said I would balk at the offer and let the BL know I'd be interested in a side project. If the current bass player was let go, and I was sought afterwards, I would first run it by the former bass player, of course only if they were my friend, before agreeing. And that's about it. It's the BL's roll of the dice. Yet, I suppose the element of guilt still lingers from being in the know about them being let go in advance.. I'd just balk... No band is worth 12 pages of drama.

 

[Pumpkin]

It's an unfortunate circumstance for sure. OP wants to eliminate the perception of betrayal, and I don't blame him. None of us really understands his relationship with this other musician, his level of compassion, and his moral and ethical compass. It obviously concerns OP enough to come here seeking advice.

I wouldn't want to unnecessarily burn a bridge with and turn even an acquaintance into an enemy if I could avoid it, especially one who I see and work with on a routine basis, and I would give that individual every opportunity to understand and accept that I had no malice toward him. I think OP is looking for ways to accomplish that.

Once he has, it's out of his hands and up to the other musician to accept the consequences with dignity and move on with his life. Ideally, he can do that without the burden of animosity toward OP.

This might be the best summary of OP's problem so far. Unfortunately, the weight of this doesn't actually fan on OP. It's on the BL to do right by the current bass player, and the current palyer to aceept that it isn't OP's fault. Sure OP can reach out to the original player after the dust has settled, which may not be accepted by a tempermental individual, or turn down the offer, which very well may not save the original guy anyway.

I still believe the only person with any real decision to make is the BL and while OP's concern is laudable, he needs to avoid interjecting himself into another band's business.

 

[marmadaddy]

"Give me a call if the gig becomes available."
You're not taking anyone's gig because you're saying you'll take it when it's open. This is how I've handled this situation in the past and it's worked out. Semantics, maybe, I think it's an important distinction.

One time I was confronted by the fired bass player and he was satisfied when I told him this is how I responded to the band.