Questions on writing Arpeggios

[Jasper199]

Im one of those guys that likes to write stuff down because it helps me learn and remember quicker. I'm at the the point where I've got my scales written but now I'm on to Arpeggios, I'm have a problem with the notes.

Let's use a B minor7 for example
B C# D E F# G A (r) B

Now as far as I can see the notes to be used for a B minor7 Arpeggio are
1b 3 5b 7
B D F# A

Now the V should be flat or do I just play it sharp? I've found this in a lot of Arpeggios. So do I change to flats or keep them sharp.

Or am I totally wrong in what I'm doing

Thanks
Jasper199

 

[HandsFree]

Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
The numbers represent the distance or interval from the root. They do not refer to a scale.
So indeed Bm7 = B-D-F#-A (root, minor 3rd, perfect 5, minor 7).

Not sure what you mean by playing 5 flat or sharp.
Min7 has a perfect 5 so if B is the root, then F# is 5.
If Bb is the root, then F (natural) is 5.

Maybe I'm missing what the problem is?

 

[Mushroo]

You know your B Major scale, right? B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A#, B (5 sharps).

So, B Major 7 arpeggio is: B, D#, F#, A#.

But you didn't ask about B Major 7! You asked about B minor 7.

The formula for minor 7 arpeggios is: 1, b3, 5, b7. The 3rd and 7th degrees are 1 half step flat compared to major 7.

So to change B Major 7 to B minor 7, lower the 3rd (D# to D), lower the 7th (A# to A) and keep the 1 and 5 the same (B and F#) to get: B, D, F#, A.

If you played F instead of F# then your formula would be 1, b3, b5, b7. This chord B, D, F, A is called B minor 7 flat 5 (or sometimes B half diminished) and it has a very different sound that B minor 7. Try playing both and hear for yourself!

 

[mambo4]

you are seeing it wrong.
all "accidental" intervals here are relative to the root

As mushroo decribed,

if you start with the intervals of a vanilla Major 7 chord:

1 3 5 7​

in english:

Root, major third, perfect fifth, major 7th.​

all intervals here are relative to the root

for a minor 7:

1 b3 5 b7​

in english:

Root, minor third, perfect fifth, minor 7th.​

all alterations of intervals here are relative to the root.

so
"b3" does not mean the note is "flat"
its means it's a minor third above the root.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

And let's not forget A MINOR 7th CHORD DOES NOT HAVE A FLATTED FIFTH. Let's start with correct information; I know mush said it, but it got kinda buried in there.....

 

[Jasper199]

Thanks All

I get the major 7 minor 7

A major 7- A C# E G B major 7- B D# F# A#
A minor 7- A C E G B minor 7- B D F# A

What about A Dom- A B C# D E F# G
Would the chord be A Dom 7- A C# E G

Once I get these down I'll ask about Minor 7 b5....lol

 

[JTE]

The name tells you. It's based on the major scale of the root of the chord. So, Amin7 is 1, b3, 5, b7 from the A Major scale. Therefore 1 is A, b3 is C natural, 5 is E, and b7 is G natural. Dom 7 (or simply 7th) is 1, 3, 5, b7, so it's A, C#, E G. Amin7b5 is 1, b3, b5, b7, so it's A, C Eb, G. Always go to the scale of the root of the chord.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

This helped me. Chord Formulas Have fun.

It's really quite simple, major's have a 3. Minors have a b3. Dominant sevens have a 3 and a b7. Major sevens have a 3 and a 7. Minor sevens have a b3 and a b7. The diminished will have a b3, b5, and b7 (m7b5). If I'm doing chord tones I don't go beyond the 8 and leave the 9, 11 and 13 to the solo instruments. If you are doing arpeggios you could go on out to the 13. Even with arpeggios I normally stop at the 8.

 

[Jasper199]

Ok I took all your great info and wrote the Major7, Minor7, Dom7 and I'm kinda lost with the
Minor7b5

This what I have

 

[1stnamebassist]

Take the five of your chord, lets say a Cminor. The five would be G. Go back one fret or flatten the five so it would be F#. So a Cminor flat five would be C, Eb, F#. The regular old C minor would be C, Eb, G. To make it a C Minor 7th flat five you would add a Bb note to the C, Eb, F#.

 

[DChalo]

Ok I took all your great info and wrote the Major7, Minor7, Dom7 and I'm kinda lost with the
Minor7b5

This what I have View attachment 993765

Under the Dom-7 section of the list, you stated F7 as being F-A-C-E, when it should be F-A-C-Eb

 

[DChalo]

Also Minor-7-Flat-Five is another term for half-diminished. For Example, G m7b5 would be G-Bb-Db-F and so on

 

[Mushroo]

Take the five of your chord, lets say a Cminor. The five would be G. Go back one fret or flatten the five so it would be F#. So a Cminor flat five would be C, Eb, F#. The regular old C minor would be C, Eb, G. To make it a C Minor 7th flat five you would add a Bb note to the C, Eb, F#.

A correction that the b5 (flat 5) of C Minor is always spelled Gb (not F#).

The rule of thumb is to count letter names, starting with the 1: C, D, Eb, F, Gb is 5 letter names, so the interval from C to Gb is some type of 5th (a diminished or flatted 5th im this case).

C to F# is only 4 letter names, so it can't be any type of 5th, it has to be a 4th (in this case a raised or augmented 4th).

There are in fact certain types of C chord that include F#. But Cmin7b5 isn't one of them, because the b5 is correctly spelled Gb.

Same pitch, different spelling/name is called "enharmonic equivalent."

 

[lfmn16]

I would suggest getting a teacher. Lesson plans and a teacher's feedback are the quickest ways to learn.

 

[InhumanResource]

Ok I took all your great info and wrote the Major7, Minor7, Dom7 and I'm kinda lost with the
Minor7b5

This what I have View attachment 993765

You can take your "Minor 7th" list and just flat/drop all the 5ths by a flat step. So:

Ami7: A C E G
Ami7b5: A C Eb G

And so on. The "spelling" or letter should not change, you just need to add a flat to indicate the correct pitch.

 

[Mushroo]

A lot of the confusion goes away if we use the word "lowered" instead of "flat".

For example, Bmin7b5 is spelled B, D, F, A. Instead of saying "this chord has flat 3rd, flat 5th, and flat 7th" (which is potentially confusing because there are no flat signs in sight) try saying "this chord has lowered 3rd, lowered 5th, and lowered 7th" (relative to the parallel major scale).

Changing a sharp note to a natural note has the same effect (lowering by a half step) as changing a natural note to a flat note.

 

[mambo4]

Another thing that clears a lot of confusion is notating these things on the staff.
Notating arpeggios and harmonized scales make the wisdom of the lines and spaces and key signatures readily apparent.

 

[vishalicious]

I'm not as well-versed in theory as anyone else who has replied to this thread, but from a more-beginner's perspective, here's something (that mambo also said, but differently) that might help: All of those chord and arpeggio formulas are based on modifications of the major scale. So, if you have a regular major 7th (1-3-5-7) and need to modify it so its minor, the formula for that is 1-b3-5-b7, so you're taking that regular 7th arpeggio or chord and lowering the 3rd and the 7th.

For that minor 7, flat 5, just go with a minor (1-b3-5-b7) and also lower the 5 (1-b3-b5-b7). If you look at those formulas as "modifications" to chords from the major scale, it might make more sense.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes, once you see the pattern for a major chord then you just adjust your pattern for everything else.

The diminished chord (Bm7b5) R-b3-b5-b7 is first a minor seven chord with the 5 flatted. It's the 7th chord in the C major scale. It is a minor dominant chord, so it does want to resolve to the tonic I chord, but, is in no hurry to do so. It can be the leading chord in a turn-a-round progression, i.e. vii-iii-vi-ii-V7-I. In the dirt simple songs we normally play you will not run up on a lot of m7b5 chords used. But to answer your question it's a minor seven chord diminished by lowering the 5th interval.

 

[Jasper199]

Wow thanks everyone for the info, now that I've layed everything out on the table and look, it seems that everything follows itself. WOW it's like someone turned the light on. Ill post my Minor 7 flat5 later to be criticized.