I'm not talking about checking relief, this is just about setting action and making sure all of the strings are of equal distance from the fretboard.
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Radius gauges
- Thread starter KingRazor
- Start date
I'm not talking about checking relief, this is just about setting action and making sure all of the strings are of equal distance from the fretboard.
KingRazor said:
Action is the same as relief in my book, if you have an ideal radius, it often takes a little tweak in your relief to get the action where you want it. I have always adjusted this to touch, had a ruler around as well but never really dig using it for my setups, the only place it would seem critical is if you were held to a standard setting up all of, say, Clapton's guitars, where he could easily require more relief/Higher action on one he might use for slide, different gauges etc... And it had to be within a 32'nd of XYZ....
Just use a 1/64" graduated machinist’s ruler. No need for the radius gauge and the ruler has more uses.
- John
- John
Right but you adjust string height at the bridge. You can set your neck up perfectly but if your bridge is setup all wonky you still need to make some adjustments there.
it's not, no matter whose book you look in.
relief is the curvature of the board, action is the height of the strings off the frets.
relief affects action, but we're talking about two different things, measured differently.
KingRazor said:
I typically haul my radius gauge up and down the neck, even to the bridge to see where things are at, if you want to make sure your strings are the same height at the nut and the 24th fret, then you need a ruler but many Bolt on production models will not be that close without a shim or extra work...
IME I've never found a situation where I had a perfect playing bass and a wonky bridge, use your bridge's string height to achieve 2 things, 1) String Height/Action 2) radius
Use the neck relief to bring in string height and give you your ideal action. This has to be balanced in along with your setup.
It's all a very organic thing to me, if the touch feels right to me, I'm better off than adhering to a standard/ mechanical setup.
walterw said:
Ok so I shouldn't have said they were the same in my book, even if I was trouble shooting a setup I would point out one or the other as a problem
In the most extreme circumstances it is possible to have no relief in the neck and a high action
Low action is possible due to the lower relief of the neck, I'd doubt you'd get low action in a neck with tons of relief.
This is why I said that, in typical cases you can correlate the two with one another.
Turnaround
Commercial User
FWIW, I tend to avoid the use of the word "action". For the bend in the neck I use the term "relief" and for the up and down adjustment of the saddles I use the term "string height". There's too much confusion about the term "action" - if anything I think it means the combination of relief and string height. Even then it seems inappropriate. No matter what adjustments you make there's no action until someone plays the bass. So action is in the player, not the instrument.
That's all I'm talking about doing.
I just want to have everything even because that's just how I like it.
It's certainly how I set my own instruments. I just give before-and-after numbers, so customers can have something to look at.
Numbers don't mean s**t, when it's buzzing, or it's too hard to play.
And if you must measure, this is all you need.
I would recommend everything you are talking bout here then, I also really like a caliper to test string guages to make sure I go back with the right set, on basses, I've had several purchased basses that came in and I didn't have a clue as to what was on them, and the caliper, along with some detective type work led me to discover the greatness of ken smith strings in the custom light guage 102 82 62 40
. or something like that... Really was the special sauce to that bass, they didn't work so hot on others but on that one was perfect.
BTW I've never had a problem with over the string Radius Gauges, I don't really agree with the angle of the illustration seems like it was intentionally designed to attribute fault to over the string gauges
it would be good since you an use them over or under...
And using them under the strings at the bridge would be neat, we had a set like this I just never knew what they were for
Every tool you have at your disposal will make your setups that much better.
And using them under the strings at the bridge would be neat, we had a set like this I just never knew what they were for
Every tool you have at your disposal will make your setups that much better.
- Aug 5, 2005
- 7,243
- 92
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: J.C. Basses
I did specify that you were measuring from the center of the arc of the fretboard to the bottom of the string.
Ah, there it is, Young's modulus. Thank you for that, Turnaround.
My 8-string has a flat fretboard, as do many ERB's above 6 or 7 strings. But you're right, a majority of basses do not.
I drew the red line on to the picture to show that it appeared in the picture that if you used an over-string radius gauge that it would match the tops of the strings match the fingerboard, resulting in the bottom of the thickest string being closest to the fingerboard, and that the under-string one would not cause that to happen.
From the sound of what everyone is saying, all I need is a ruler, if that.
If setting up as simple as turning screws until everything feels right, then why do people recommend basses get "professionally setup"?
- Aug 5, 2005
- 7,243
- 92
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: J.C. Basses
A few reasons. A good setup is a science but also requires experience in playing to know what goes into making a bass play great - most of the newbies don't have this experience. It also requires taking the time to learn how each adjustment will interact with the other adjustments on other areas of the bass (ie, neck relief and string height). One thing Roger Sadowsky said in an old Bass Player article was that when he does setups, he tries to emulate the player's style every step of the way. That way he can custom-tailor the setup to the player as best as possible.
There are really only four very basic things you need for any setup:
1. A straight edge
2. A good, accurate tuner
3. Tiny files
4. Allen wrenches (and possibly a screw driver, depending on the bridge).
First, use the truss rod to straighten the neck and check for high frets. None? Good.
Next, check nut slot depth by pressing down just in front of the second fret (as if you're fretting the third) and look at the string clearance above the first fret. It should allow just a touch of light through. Feeler gauges can be useful here, but not really necessary. Repeat for each string. Now the nut slot depths match the radius of the fretboard.
Adjusting the truss rod and string are where it takes a keen understanding of the player and strings to do well - those with a lighter touch generally require less relief and lower action, those that play more aggressively generally require more relief and higher action. YMMV.
To set the string height at the bridge, you are correct. A ruler is the way to go.
First, "feel" is subjective and inconsistent. That's why it's important to begin by setting the string heights to standard measurements first and then adjust slightly for feel. Then take new measurements for reference and double check that the string heights don't vary too much from string to string (typically there is only a 1/32" difference in string height between the fat strings and the skinny strings). This method ensures that the strings follow the curvature of the fingerboard and the fat strings have a little extra clearance to vibrate without significant fret buzz.
For the record, there's more to a professional setup than adjusting the string height at the bridge. In fact, setting the string height at the nut is equally important but not quite as easy to do.
Here's a 4-part video that will show you some of the basics. Setting Up Your Bass Guitar: Adjusting The Truss Rod (Step 1 of 4) - YouTube
That's what I thought, it just seemed like the comments in this thread were refuting this, claiming that all you had to do was adjust until it "feels" right.
Other than adjusting the truss rod to get the right amount of relief, checking for and correcting any high frets, checking the nut slots, setting string height at the bridge, checking intonation, and setting pickup height, is there anything else?
