Rant about your band

[ARidgeBass]

The band plays mostly originals, 6 of his songs that he wrote the guitar for and 1 cover. When I joined 3 were already written. I introduced my own material and myself and the drummer have completed 2 songs that everyone was excited about. The drummer even posted a part of one on Facebook as he was so excited about it. The guitarist never wrote anything to them though. So, they were abandoned along the way and we then ended up using 3 more of his songs, which I wrote to and we ended up finishing. There really wasn't a leader of any sorts, but most of the time it was me and him being the only ones showing up for practice. This was the reason I put up with his demands at first as it was his material. The more we recorded though, when he came over he was badmouthing the other members of the band behind their backs about their parts and said he had told them to do certain things in parts of the songs which never materialized and he was frustrated about. I can only imagine he was doing the same with me, and he wanted to direct my recordings of bass as well after drums were laid down for tracks and made many "suggestions". Kind of what I thought if he was so particular about wanting "his" songs to be "his" way why not do everything yourself, being in an original band is more about everyone laying there own part down. There were also other weird challenges like his obsession with not using any plug-ins on anything and myself also suggesting he record his own guitar at his house as he has a presonus 96 box and constantly wasn't happy with what was recorded, but he wanted everything recorded with my equipment for "quality". Definitely some weird dynamics going on in the band, worse than I've dealt with in any other band, but I felt with my work schedule it was my possible only option, but it never panned out the way I was anticipating 3 years in the band and with drummer and singer attendance 7 songs total was about it. Which I've written 15-20 originals in less than 6 months in other bands previously. Feels great to be out of the situation now though.

 

[Standalone]

My band mates are incredibly talented, great human beings who quickly became brothers to me. We’ll be coming up on the four years mark of my joining the band this spring. John writes great songs that are really rewarding to play. He’s a great frontman, guitarist and a hardworking band promoter. We gig. Original music. Thanks to his drive and work. Matt is an amazing drummer, drum historian, and drum teacher, whose roots in Celtic marching and progressive rock connect really well with the Motown, funk, and punk rock musical vocabulary that make up my roots. The only negative thing I can think of is the occasional feeling that my playing doesn’t match the depth and quality of what John and Matt produce musically. But they tell me I’m full of it. /rant

 

[LBS-bass]

The band plays mostly originals, 6 of his songs that he wrote the guitar for and 1 cover. When I joined 3 were already written. I introduced my own material and myself and the drummer have completed 2 songs that everyone was excited about. The drummer even posted a part of one on Facebook as he was so excited about it. The guitarist never wrote anything to them though. So, they were abandoned along the way and we then ended up using 3 more of his songs, which I wrote to and we ended up finishing. There really wasn't a leader of any sorts, but most of the time it was me and him being the only ones showing up for practice. This was the reason I put up with his demands at first as it was his material. The more we recorded though, when he came over he was badmouthing the other members of the band behind their backs about their parts and said he had told them to do certain things in parts of the songs which never materialized and he was frustrated about. I can only imagine he was doing the same with me, and he wanted to direct my recordings of bass as well after drums were laid down for tracks and made many "suggestions". Kind of what I thought if he was so particular about wanting "his" songs to be "his" way why not do everything yourself, being in an original band is more about everyone laying there own part down. There were also other weird challenges like his obsession with not using any plug-ins on anything and myself also suggesting he record his own guitar at his house as he has a presonus 96 box and constantly wasn't happy with what was recorded, but he wanted everything recorded with my equipment for "quality". Definitely some weird dynamics going on in the band, worse than I've dealt with in any other band, but I felt with my work schedule it was my possible only option, but it never panned out the way I was anticipating 3 years in the band and with drummer and singer attendance 7 songs total was about it. Which I've written 15-20 originals in less than 6 months in other bands previously. Feels great to be out of the situation now though.

Sigh.

Sometimes people just want free labor for things they're hoping to remain in control of. This guy thinks he has a bunch of people he can get free tracks from, but this is always going to be his music and his project. One of the big ways people do this is by starting a "band" which is really just the person with the songs and a group of people he'll extract free labor and perhaps also money from and maybe book a few gigs with.

I learned to walk away from any sort of "project" that smells like this and to pay session musicians when I want my own music recorded. The advantage is that I get top-quality work done quickly, and I don't have to ever see those people if they are recording in their home studios and sending tracks to me. On the other side of the coin, I'm not going to participate in anyone's original project by contributing tracks that I'm not recording myself, and they can do with them whatever they want as long as they pay me for my time.

If it's an actual band where everyone's contributing equally, I hope for that level of cooperation to extend to the recording and production process as well. If I have the skillset to produce and master, I don't want someone else trying to drive that bus and keeping me from getting the work done. Let me do what I'm good at and we'll tweak it as a group later on.

 

[ARidgeBass]

I think you hit the nail on the head! Reading that was a, aha moment. Played a couple shows, he was ok, little more suggestive than in most bands I've been in writing wise, but never really thought about it, but when he wanted to record seems all bets were off! Thanks for the reply! Think that's probably what I'll do going forward. I can do everything, but drums so, myself and the drummer are still good, I thought about paying him to track the 2 songs we had and maybe more later.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think you hit the nail on the head! Reading that was a, aha moment. Played a couple shows, he was ok, little more suggestive than in most bands I've been in writing wise, but never really thought about it, but when he wanted to record seems all bets were off! Thanks for the reply! Think that's probably what I'll do going forward. I can do everything, but drums so, myself and the drummer are still good, I thought about paying him to track the 2 songs we had and maybe more later.

This stuff happens frequently and I don't think that people always realize what they're actually asking for. We have this idea that we should always be cooperative but learning original music and getting it right to record is actually quite a lot of work. If I'm going to work like that, I need to be somehow invested in the project itself or I need to be paid for my time.

Bandleaders typically balk at this because they feel entitled to my work, and my time, and I have to hand them a reality check or they'll just take full advantage. I figured this out shortly after I got back into playing and had been hired by a bandleader to play his original music. His music wasn't hard, but it wasn't all that good, and I wasn't really viewing it as anything more than an opportunity to get my chops back together after a long absence.

He decided that he'd like to have some of the music recorded and started a text string about it, using the excuse that we "need promotional material." This guy already had two or three album's worth of material that we were playing live, and I didn't see how recording more songs was going to benefit us; club owners don't care about the personnel so much. So I told everyone I thought it sounded like a whole lot of work for questionable value to us as individuals and the band as a whole.

He came back with "I'd think you'd want some sort of recording for posterity, something tangible that you could listen to and be proud of" and I'm thinking "there's no way I'd be proud of my work on these songs, I'd be embarrassed to have my name on this." Didn't want to say that, so I just told him I have lots of recorded material already and my ego doesn't demand a record of everything I've ever done, so considering the amount of work he's requesting from me, I'm going to pass on this one.

He didn't bring it up again, and I still did some shows with him after that, because he needed the help and he's a nice enough guy. I honestly don't think it ever occurred to him that a grown adult might balk at the request to do a lot of free work. The way people think about musical collaboration is rather strange. He expected that we'd jump at the "chance" to record music that no one will ever hear because, in his mind, we were a band and that meant we were together on all things, and of course we'd be chomping at the bit to make a recording. In my mind I was just passing through his band as a stepping stone, because I needed to play to get my chops back in shape.

That wasn't really fair to him, I know, so I eventually told him I couldn't do it anymore.

 

[pepj]

Never been that precious about recording songs but I liked to be paid.
Early on, a drummer insisted on credits for playing parts, which at the the time seemed OTT but I understood when the singer said he wanted everyone to chip in on the costs for recording his songs and when people said they werent fussed about recording them..and therefore didnt want the bill...he threatened to quit the band.
He pulled that stroke with 2 bands, to my knowledge.

So, yep, get all this agreed up front.

 

[LBS-bass]

Never been that precious about recording songs but I liked to be paid.
Early on, a drummer insisted on credits for playing parts, which at the the time seemed OTT but I understood when the singer said he wanted everyone to chip in on the costs for recording his songs and when people said they werent fussed about recording them..and therefore didnt want the bill...he threatened to quit the band.
He pulled that stroke with 2 bands, to my knowledge.

So, yep, get all this agreed up front.

For me it’s very much dependent on the situation and my degree of interest in the band. I’m with one band now that’s planning to record and I’m fully on board with it. I don’t think it’s going to be an embarrassment and I think the whole thing will be a ton of fun and add something to our promotional package. I didn’t see any of that with the other guy though.

 

[pepj]

Well, they are his songs and he just needs a vehicle to record them with.
I think he wanted to play them at the gigs but I saw no value in that and certainly not to the point of sharing costs. I'm not sure how he intended to market them but never even discussed and certainly not offered.

So, for me, its a solo project...which he should bankrole.

 

[Bass Viking]

This stuff happens frequently and I don't think that people always realize what they're actually asking for. We have this idea that we should always be cooperative but learning original music and getting it right to record is actually quite a lot of work. If I'm going to work like that, I need to be somehow invested in the project itself or I need to be paid for my time.

Bandleaders typically balk at this because they feel entitled to my work, and my time, and I have to hand them a reality check or they'll just take full advantage. I figured this out shortly after I got back into playing and had been hired by a bandleader to play his original music. His music wasn't hard, but it wasn't all that good, and I wasn't really viewing it as anything more than an opportunity to get my chops back together after a long absence.

He decided that he'd like to have some of the music recorded and started a text string about it, using the excuse that we "need promotional material." This guy already had two or three album's worth of material that we were playing live, and I didn't see how recording more songs was going to benefit us; club owners don't care about the personnel so much. So I told everyone I thought it sounded like a whole lot of work for questionable value to us as individuals and the band as a whole.

He came back with "I'd think you'd want some sort of recording for posterity, something tangible that you could listen to and be proud of" and I'm thinking "there's no way I'd be proud of my work on these songs, I'd be embarrassed to have my name on this." Didn't want to say that, so I just told him I have lots of recorded material already and my ego doesn't demand a record of everything I've ever done, so considering the amount of work he's requesting from me, I'm going to pass on this one.

He didn't bring it up again, and I still did some shows with him after that, because he needed the help and he's a nice enough guy. I honestly don't think it ever occurred to him that a grown adult might balk at the request to do a lot of free work. The way people think about musical collaboration is rather strange. He expected that we'd jump at the "chance" to record music that no one will ever hear because, in his mind, we were a band and that meant we were together on all things, and of course we'd be chomping at the bit to make a recording. In my mind I was just passing through his band as a stepping stone, because I needed to play to get my chops back in shape.

That wasn't really fair to him, I know, so I eventually told him I couldn't do it anymore.

One thing that needs to be clarified up front when joining a band: am I a full fledged band member or a sideman? Sounds like these band leaders wanted it both ways. That's unacceptable.

 

[LBS-bass]

Well, they are his songs and he just needs a vehicle to record them with.
I think he wanted to play them at the gigs but I saw no value in that and certainly not to the point of sharing costs. I'm not sure how he intended to market them but never even discussed and certainly not offered.

So, for me, its a solo project...which he should bankrole.

That's exactly how I viewed it with the one guy. There wasn't a band, per se - over the objection of at least one other player the whole project still had his name on it. It was music he had written, he wasn't going to produce anyone else's music in those sessions. I already knew from working with him that he was going to be very particular about what was played (even though the music was of questionable quality and his particular demands were not improving it) and I just didn't want my name associated with it. I also know his friend who owned the studio where this would have been done, and he's a producer who squeezes all the life out of everything that comes out of his place. But he would have done it for free because they are good friends.

What he would end up with would be another sterile and overproduced CD with a group of mediocre songs he had written, and what I would end up with would be nothing I could use to promote my own skill set to anyone else. When you weigh all of that, he's doing a solo project and whether or not I am playing gigs for him I am coming in as a session player, which I need to be paid for. But, of course, he has no money, so the only way he has ever been able to get anything done was to rely on others who believed in his project more than I did.

I respect the situation he's in but I just don't have the extra time and energy to spend on things like that.

 

[LBS-bass]

One thing that needs to be clarified up front when joining a band: am I a full fledged band member or a sideman? Sounds like these band leaders wanted it both ways. That's unacceptable.

It was pretty clear to me that I was a sideman in that situation; I'd been recruited into it by another bassist who did some gigs with him and didn't really want to do them anymore, but he knew I had just started to play again so he suggested me to stand in for him at one show. The BL liked my playing better than his, so he asked me to be his go-to player and I asked the guy who recruited me if that would bother him.

He was more than happy to let it go, so since I was looking for a chance to play I said yes. But it soon became clear that I needed to keep moving forward, and I never felt committed to him in a band-member sort of way.

But the thing is, that guy had been around the block many, many times. He knows how all that works and he's got a roster of bassists he can call when he needs someone.

 

[crucislancer]

Ok, a rant might be cathartic:

One of my bands, which is the only one that has gigs on the books at the moment, has issues that have made me re-think if I want to be in the band anymore.

The guitarist is very hit and miss. His solos are fantastic, but when it comes to everything else he'll get it wrong more than right. For instance, I've never heard a guitarist who couldn't play AC/DC consistently. He flubs the lines, can't get the timing right, and so on. There's other songs in our set list that he'll screw up so bad that he stops and waits to see if there's a way for him to get back into the song, sometimes just starring into space. And more than once I've heard him say "oh I didn't work on that one", even though it's on the set list, and it's like he's never heard the song. Part of me thinks he's drinking too much, but I've seen him completely blow during the first 2 sets and then be right on the money for the next 2, so I don't know if that's the case. He's been talked to a couple of times now about his playing, and there are times that he makes the effort to work on the material at home, and it shows. I just don't see that effort enough, and I think the songs suffer for it.

The keyboardist, who also doubles on guitar occasionally, admitted to me a few weeks ago that he doesn't practice the songs at home, preferring to work on his own songwriting. This shows in his playing. Also, he spends way too much time looking for his keyboard patches in between songs.

I don't have any problems with them personally, it's just their work ethic when it comes to the songs and stagecraft, which I find frustrating. My other band, which is just getting started and has a gig in March, has real pros that do the work. My thinking is to put my notice in to the one I'm having problems with, and just stick with the other band, and do some sub gigs if I want some more gigs.

 

[Pocket Dave]

RANT: I'm doing a sub gig for a band this week where the BL gives me a setlist, with keys and everything, and then tosses it out the window by the second set.

Actually, not a rant. It makes things fun and interesting - a best-of both prepared songs AND jam situations where my listening skills get challenged. Sure, the wheels may come off every now and then, but there are also flashes of inspiration and even brilliance - And the crowd seems 100% into it no matter how it goes.

It helps that the BL's a good, seasoned entertainer with a big heart.

 

[LBS-bass]

RANT: I'm doing a sub gig for a band this week where the BL gives me a setlist, with keys and everything, and then tosses it out the window by the second set.

Actually, not a rant. It makes things fun and interesting - a best-of both prepared songs AND jam situations where my listening skills get challenged. Sure, the wheels may come off every now and then, but there are also flashes of inspiration and even brilliance - And the crowd seems 100% into it no matter how it goes.

It helps that the BL's a good, seasoned entertainer with a big heart.

My favorite gigs are like this; provided I have some familiarity with the material (as in at least I'm familiar enough to pull something out of my - uh - ears and make it work). Or if it's a blues gig, stick to the formulas and we won't really have any problems

 

[pepj]

Lucky if it lasts beyond a few numbers. But when the pad has so many songs, it is easier to call the one they find in the book and expect everyone to handle it rather that use the set list which is another piece of paper to follow and add time between songs

 

[pepj]

Talking of which;
This outfit can call on some good players and is a useful unit, but Singer also goes out with other lineups which makes him very busy ...out 5 times a week, week in, week out.
However, they aren't of the same standard, imv, and you could consider them different bands because the numbers do not cross over too much.
I have a hard time getting this unit gigs and I suspect this is because his gig profile is watered down with the other acts he goes out with.

Now, they are active trying to target my gigs and I'm not happy to be associated with them.
I hope they are not using me as a referral.

This is the problem with any gig is a good gig approach.

 

[LBS-bass]

Talking of which;
This outfit can call on some good players and is a useful unit, but Singer also goes out with other lineups which makes him very busy ...out 5 times a week, week in, week out.
However, they aren't of the same standard, imv, and you could consider them different bands because the numbers do not cross over too much.
I have a hard time getting this unit gigs and I suspect this is because his gig profile is watered down with the other acts he goes out with.

Now, they are active trying to target my gigs and I'm not happy to be associated with them.
I hope they are not using me as a referral.

This is the problem with any gig is a good gig approach.

I am in a band with that same singer .

Seriously, he's almost never able to rehearse with us because he's busy with his other bands or his other shows and we have to book shows far in advance, but he's a big draw in this town and this is how he makes his living, so we deal with it. To what extent his shows cannibalize each other I don't know. But we still probably draw better than we would if he wasn't with us, so it is what it is.

 

[pepj]

I rate this guy..and he has a very large book of songs, but he also runs open mics and his health this winter has been fragile...in terms of winter bugs. I'm hoping its not anything else, but my big gripe is that he takes any gigs...sometimes simply because a player will sing a few numbers.. and frankly he is then part of a sub standard act, and doesnt seem to realise, or care? that this doesnt reflect well.
On top of that, his new associate is targetting gigs I'm known at, and I suspect might be using me as an 'in'..?? I can't prove this but if the venues ask, I will have to say I couldn't recommend them.

I will have to find another singer as venues dont rate the acts that he is usually associated with.
I just don't get why he would operate like this..

 

[LBS-bass]

I just don't get why he would operate like this..

In our case it's purely about paying the rent. But his bands aren't crap, and his solo act isn't, either, and that may be the difference here. Generally we all try to play nice with each other in our various side projects because you get further when you cooperate than when you don't.

I'm not sure what I would be doing if this guy were out there advertising himself with awful bands, but thankfully he's well past the place where he has to take sub-par gigs to bring in dollars. If anything, he drags the rest of us UP with him, not the other way around.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

I've got a rant.

None of the bands I'm currently in have any drama happening. Everybody gets along for pete's sake. We gig regularly and the pay is good.

I keep trying to slip the drummers more booze and weed so they'll cause trainwrecks and get fired, but they manage to play just as well even if they can't keep their eyes open.

Every time I suggest we should all move to NYC or LA to "make it" they tell me they're happy just playing the local circuit.

Sometimes on set breaks I'll sneak over to the guitar amps and turn them way up and detune the guitars, but the guitarists always turn the volume down and retune the guitars when they get back on stage.

I'll suggest really inappopriate material expecting it will be rejected but the guys always love the tunes and have them down for the next gig.

What can I do so I'll have good reasons to quit these bands?

It's poor manners to come to a "show-your-warts" party with clear skin!