Rant about your band

[Spidey2112]

No rant with current band... '70s/'80s covers, with a smidge of prog thrown in. No egos, very professional... each member, including our lead vocalist, takes their parts to heart, which I absolutely love.

We must be doing something right, as we've booked twice as many (some multiple appearances) for '23 as we did for last year.

Very fortunate.

 

[LBS-bass]

LOL! Does he want you to provide a rehearsal space too?

I do provide a rehearsal space. It's ridiculous for him to go out of his way to annoy me at this point. It's not like I'm irreplaceable, and I know that, but he gets an awful lot of value out of my participation.

 

[pepj]

How does this guy have a new band...its an idea at best with no real of developjng unless someone adds anything tangible..like players..and then I'd actually argue he is in someone's else' band..

 

[LBS-bass]

How does this guy have a new band...its an idea at best with no real of developjng unless someone adds anything tangible..like players..and then I'd actually argue he is in someone's else' band..

He made initial connections by coming out to the jams where the good players go. He's a good player and he assembled a bunch of very good players. He impresses people with a thick resume.

Getting the band together was easy. Getting gigs where his players were already working a lot was also easy. He failed to deliver an audience, though, which is too bad, because he had a great opportunity to do it and that opportunity was squandered. I'm a little sad about it because in spite of the problems I really enjoy playing with that bunch.

 

[Pocket Dave]

It went about as you'd expect. I got all my grievances out on the table and let him know that my personal integrity is more important to me than any band I'm in, and that this all makes me look really bad in all kinds of ways.

I told him he should have let me know that player 1 was available before we (me and the other band member) had conversations last night with player 2 about what he could expect from the next show, and that it makes us all look like giant unprofessional a-holes to not handle this better. I also told him I'm not bringing in any other players when the talent pool is so shallow here only to have him screw up my relationships with good players that I am working with in contexts he's not even involved with.

This is twice now. He tried to cut player 1 (who I also recommended) out of a gig she had planned for about a year ago and I got upset enough about that to get on his case about it. She doesn't even know about that because I told him I'd be very unhappy if he did that to her.

And I told him I am not doing this next gig if he's going to put me in this situation with player 2 who worked his butt off to get ready for this show last night with less than a week's notice.

So he said he'd talk with player 1 and explain that we've already booked someone else based on what her situation was a few weeks ago and we can't go back on that. I swear, some people are just clueless about social dynamics and they just want what they want and they don't think about anything else. I know he likes player 1's style better but honestly player 2 is a more interesting player. They bring different flavors and they're both good but there's no reason to reject one over the other just because one is more available now.

But he doesn't want me to walk and we've always had a good relationship. This band is headed south anyway and we talked about that too... trying to salvage something from the wreckage is going to be an interesting undertaking. But it's a good band, with good players, and I think everyone has good intentions.

This would usually be the point where I'd let the BL know the next time he needs a sub or supplemental player, he'll need to contact players on his own. Seriously, I'm out.

In fact, I usually try to stay away from this kind of thing from the outset. I got a call from a BL once as I was OMW to a gig, asking if I could call someone to cover for us on drums when the regular guy tested positive for covid. I had no interest in doing this: "How about I pull over and text you some phone numbers instead?". A half hour after I showed up, one of the guys whose number I shared started loading in, thanking me for the referral. I smiled and told him, "Yeah, you might not want to thank me just yet". ;-)

 

[LBS-bass]

This would usually be the point where I'd let the BL know the next time he needs a sub or supplemental player, he'll need to contact players on his own. Seriously, I'm out.

In fact, I usually try to stay away from this kind of thing from the outset. I got a call from a BL once as I was OMW to a gig, asking if I could call someone to cover for us on drums when the regular guy tested positive for covid. I had no interest in doing this: "How about I pull over and text you some phone numbers instead?". A half hour after I showed up, one of the guys whose number I shared started loading in, thanking me for the referral. I smiled and told him, "Yeah, you might not want to thank me just yet". ;-)

Yes, well, it won't happen again, I can assure you of that. I should have known better but we were in a pinch; player 1 had plans to travel out of town so another band member had recommended someone else who bailed at the last minute. He should be the one with all the connections, but he didn't know anyone else. I did, so I texted my guy with the details and brought him in - for the show next weekend.

A few days later, player 1 is physically unable to do the show this week, so the BL asks me to lock in player 2 for this additional gig if possible, which is happening first. That means player 2 has less than a week to go over and write charts for two sets of material he's not familiar with.

I know him well enough to know he will do all this; he's a true pro, but we bring him in for one reassurance rehearsal and BL starts up with all the "it goes this way, here's the form" and I stop him and say, "he's got his charts already, just play the songs." We blow through everything in less than two hours. We do the show and it's just brilliant. And then the following day you tell me you don't want him on the gig we actually hired him for?

Yeah, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice and my whole demeanor changes. Anyone can make a mistake but the only reason he wants player 1 for this next gig is that he's fixated on a few backing vocals which she and I provide. I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason for me to tell my other bandmate to hit the road. I will sing a harmony with you and we'll get the show done.

It's actually more complicated than this; I had to fire player 1 from a band a few years back because she just wasn't the best person for the job, so I imagine her view of me is a little uncertain. By bringing her into this I wanted to reassure her that I appreciate what she brings to the right table, which is an awful lot, and this band has been a good experience for her overall. But now I look like I'm meddling to bring in someone to replace her, which is not the case at all. I'm just trying to honor the commitment that was made to someone else when we all thought she was unavailable. Unbeknownst to me, she told the BL she'd be in town and the BL has been leading her on to believe she'll play this show, which is unethical on every level.

 

[pepj]

Sometimes I wish I was more like that...

Guy I used to play with asked if I want to join his new band. I said I'd consider it, and asked if he has the other musicians lined up. He hasn't, and suggested I look for em. Some people will never change - myself included. Only, I won't bother looking for musicians. Not for him, anyway.

He made initial connections by coming out to the jams where the good players go. He's a good player and he assembled a bunch of very good players. He impresses people with a thick resume.

Getting the band together was easy. Getting gigs where his players were already working a lot was also easy. He failed to deliver an audience, though, which is too bad, because he had a great opportunity to do it and that opportunity was squandered. I'm a little sad about it because in spite of the problems I really enjoy playing with that bunch.

I was asking how in the first quote, the guy had a band..
got a bit mixed up there.

 

[LBS-bass]

I was asking how in the first quote, the guy had a band..
got a bit mixed up there.

Oops, sorry! Carry on, all

 

[Pocket Dave]

Yes, well, it won't happen again, I can assure you of that. I should have known better but we were in a pinch; player 1 had plans to travel out of town so another band member had recommended someone else who bailed at the last minute. He should be the one with all the connections, but he didn't know anyone else. I did, so I texted my guy with the details and brought him in - for the show next weekend.

A few days later, player 1 is physically unable to do the show this week, so the BL asks me to lock in player 2 for this additional gig if possible, which is happening first. That means player 2 has less than a week to go over and write charts for two sets of material he's not familiar with.

I know him well enough to know he will do all this; he's a true pro, but we bring him in for one reassurance rehearsal and BL starts up with all the "it goes this way, here's the form" and I stop him and say, "he's got his charts already, just play the songs." We blow through everything in less than two hours. We do the show and it's just brilliant. And then the following day you tell me you don't want him on the gig we actually hired him for?

Yeah, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice and my whole demeanor changes. Anyone can make a mistake but the only reason he wants player 1 for this next gig is that he's fixated on a few backing vocals which she and I provide. I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason for me to tell my other bandmate to hit the road. I will sing a harmony with you and we'll get the show done.

It's actually more complicated than this; I had to fire player 1 from a band a few years back because she just wasn't the best person for the job, so I imagine her view of me is a little uncertain. By bringing her into this I wanted to reassure her that I appreciate what she brings to the right table, which is an awful lot, and this band has been a good experience for her overall. But now I look like I'm meddling to bring in someone to replace her, which is not the case at all. I'm just trying to honor the commitment that was made to someone else when we all thought she was unavailable. Unbeknownst to me, she told the BL she'd be in town and the BL has been leading her on to believe she'll play this show, which is unethical on every level.

Yeah, it's because things DO get complicated that all I'll do is make referrals & introductions.

BL's got to carry the ball into the end zone. If he fumbles, I'm way in the backfield & it's not on me.

'Course I'm just a sideman, so there's THAT extra layer of insulation.

 

[SiSoldier]

Touring band blues rant incoming:

1. Rhythm guitar player has to be louder than everyone else at all times. Every time I try an EQ the bass for the mix, he always walks back to his amp and raises the gain/volume. He's slick too...I'll leave the volume pot on my bass at 3/4 to boost it during a set, but he always hears the audible difference and returns to his amp to raise the volume. It has come to the point where I am mostly hearing his guitar on stage.

2. Band wants to tour every 6 months and everything comes out of pocket (Recordings, van rentals, trailers, flights, gas, lodging, food, merch). No one gets paid directly for any gigs. Merch sales and paid gigs do help cover gas/hotel expenses but we always have to chip in more money to cover any balance. PTO is scarce and often take 1 to 2 weeks off with no pay to go on the road. Takes up all my vacation time to spend with the family. Think I'm getting too old to enjoy touring.

My question is, does anyone else essentially pay their way through tours? Is this just the way it is?

 

[LBS-bass]

Yeah, it's because things DO get complicated that all I'll do is make referrals & introductions.

BL's got to carry the ball into the end zone. If he fumbles, I'm way in the backfield & it's not on me.

'Course I'm just a sideman, so there's THAT extra layer of insulation.

The big mistake I made here was helping because he is new in town; it's obvious he won't have the connections here to do much if he doesn't get help from someone. But given how that's gone down, he won't get any more help from me.

 

[Bass Viking]

Sometimes I wish I was more like that...

Guy I used to play with asked if I want to join his new band. I said I'd consider it, and asked if he has the other musicians lined up. He hasn't, and suggested I look for em. Some people will never change - myself included. Only, I won't bother looking for musicians. Not for him, anyway.

LOL! Does he want you to provide a rehearsal space too?

I do provide a rehearsal space. It's ridiculous for him to go out of his way to annoy me at this point. It's not like I'm irreplaceable, and I know that, but he gets an awful lot of value out of my participation.

I was responding to EddiePlaysBass but thanks for the info LBS.

 

[LBS-bass]

I was responding to EddiePlaysBass but thanks for the info LBS.

No, I knew that, I was just tagging on to add to my general rant that it's something I also provide, since you mentioned it to Eddie. You know, like in a real conversation when someone says, "what about this? and someone else says, oh, I also do that."

Anyway, I am feeling like my welcome is worn in this thread so I'll bug out. Mostly just feeling sad about how all this is playing out with this band at this point and not in a great headspace for a variety of reasons.

 

[Bass Viking]

No, I knew that, I was just tagging on to add to my general rant that it's something I also provide, since you mentioned it to Eddie. You know, like in a real conversation when someone says, "what about this? and someone else says, oh, I also do that."

Anyway, I am feeling like my welcome is worn in this thread so I'll bug out. Mostly just feeling sad about how all this is playing out with this band at this point and not in a great headspace for a variety of reasons.

Please continue, I like hearing about band drama. That's why I come to this sub-forum!

 

[Btbp]

My last non-reply post in this thread was a quasi-rant, I realize I actually have a mini rant, this is a reminder for me to post it later when I have time. So I don't forget, it's about CL and FB and responding to ads or people responding to my ads. Two separate cases.

 

[pepj]

Touring band blues rant incoming:

1. Rhythm guitar player has to be louder than everyone else at all times. Every time I try an EQ the bass for the mix, he always walks back to his amp and raises the gain/volume. He's slick too...I'll leave the volume pot on my bass at 3/4 to boost it during a set, but he always hears the audible difference and returns to his amp to raise the volume. It has come to the point where I am mostly hearing his guitar on stage.

2. Band wants to tour every 6 months and everything comes out of pocket (Recordings, van rentals, trailers, flights, gas, lodging, food, merch). No one gets paid directly for any gigs. Merch sales and paid gigs do help cover gas/hotel expenses but we always have to chip in more money to cover any balance. PTO is scarce and often take 1 to 2 weeks off with no pay to go on the road. Takes up all my vacation time to spend with the family. Think I'm getting too old to enjoy touring.

My question is, does anyone else essentially pay their way through tours? Is this just the way it is?

2nd gtr rant ...That can't be right or tolerated.
If he is being a dick about it, thats reason to let him go, or ask him to leave. If he doesnt know he is doing that, then words need saying. But it doesn't read like the latter..?

As for paying to tour, I never did. I had a fee and and it was paid. I think the main artist took the hits.

 

[chris1327]

My question is, does anyone else essentially pay their way through tours? Is this just the way it is?

oh man this is such a difficult needle to thread… there’s a bunch of threads here that outline different experiences and strategies for touring successfully which span almost every genre and circumstance. my lived experience has been very similar to yours, where touring is basically a money losing endeavor, and i’ve found that path gets harder and harder to go down as i get older. i’ve learned that touring can work for the right kind of person, usually someone without any demanding work/family commitments who just absolutely lives for the music and will sacrifice anything to pursue the dream, otherwise it’s a bit of a bummer ime. and i haven’t been on a tour since the pandemic started, so i can’t even imagine how challenging it must be now

 

[Pocket Dave]

The big mistake I made here was helping because he is new in town; it's obvious he won't have the connections here to do much if he doesn't get help from someone. But given how that's gone down, he won't get any more help from me.

Again, in that kind of situation, or any kind of situation, "here's some guys you can call" is all I need to do. The older I get, the more mindful I am of the time I'm willing to spend on something that pays me only $100 plus maybe $40-50 in tips for what already amounts to a lot of time and resources.

Yeah, I know that sounds kinda mercenary, but surprisingly, the most successful and fun bands I've been in have been made up of players who all shared that same attitude.

And I don't really see "not my job man" as a negative when the BL's job is to LEAD. It's more about respecting the chain of command (and maintaining some personal peace-of-mind).

 

[LBS-bass]

Again, in that kind of situation, or any kind of situation, "here's some guys you can call" is all I need to do. The older I get, the more mindful I am of the time I'm willing to spend on something that pays me only $100 plus maybe $40-50 in tips for what already amounts to a lot of time and resources.

Yeah, I know that sounds kinda mercenary, but surprisingly, the most successful and fun bands I've been in have been made up of players who all shared that same attitude.

And I don't really see "not my job man" as a negative when the BL's job is to LEAD. It's more about respecting the chain of command (and maintaining some personal peace-of-mind).

Well, by this logic there's no band at all, so that's not going to work. Someone who is new here doesn't have the connections to fully get the job done, and I don't have phone numbers of everyone handy in this day and age; I connect with them through messenger, etc. It's just simpler to do that myself than to ask the guy what his phone number is for some unknown purpose and then hand that off to the BL. He's going to know I referred him anyway. That extra step just makes it look weird.

I'm also all about networking, and paying that forward is part of the deal.

On a personal level, I also want the gig to succeed. I don't want to be up there on an important gig without the personnel we need. It makes ME look bad on the one night when press and videographers are going to be there. Why would I turn my back on someone who needs my help for that?

You're making it sound like wanting to be helpful is a defined negative, and I don't really believe that. In an ideal world, we help each other, and everyone benefits.

What I do believe is that people show me who they are, and once a good deed has been punished, it's up to me to keep that from happening again.

 

[SiSoldier]

2nd gtr rant ...That can't be right or tolerated.
If he is being a dick about it, thats reason to let him go, or ask him to leave. If he doesnt know he is doing that, then words need saying. But it doesn't read like the latter..?

As for paying to tour, I never did. I had a fee and and it was paid. I think the main artist took the hits.

I don't think it's on purpose but it is really annoying and getting to the point where I would rather just want to stop gigging with them. The 2nd guitarist is not bad with volume. Still, I am competing with two 100 watt tube guitar half stacks.

oh man this is such a difficult needle to thread… there’s a bunch of threads here that outline different experiences and strategies for touring successfully which span almost every genre and circumstance. my lived experience has been very similar to yours, where touring is basically a money losing endeavor, and i’ve found that path gets harder and harder to go down as i get older. i’ve learned that touring can work for the right kind of person, usually someone without any demanding work/family commitments who just absolutely lives for the music and will sacrifice anything to pursue the dream, otherwise it’s a bit of a bummer ime. and i haven’t been on a tour since the pandemic started, so i can’t even imagine how challenging it must be now

Very well said and yes it feels more of a bummer now at my age. Tired of staying at clubs until the show's over with nothing to do, gas station food, sleeping on floors/van and spending funds I could be saving for the household. If I am going to be uncomfortable id rather just do it on my terms.