Ray Ross Bridges

[David Jayne]

There’s a point where additional downforce has no appreciable affect on vibrational transfer. Studies have shown that the benefits of angles greater than about 5 degrees fall off quickly. So 5 degrees is an acceptable minimum and beyond that little advantage is to be gained with an increased break angle.

Sounds right. But I can see the thru-body argument, that being that instead of trying to peel the bridge off the body it's being pressed down onto it. My feeling is it simply doesn't matter. The clamping force bridge screws provide has got to be several orders of magnitude larger than the downforce that thru-body might add. Conclusion: meh.

 

[Turnaround]

My feeling is it simply doesn't matter. The clamping force bridge screws provide has got to be several orders of magnitude larger than the downforce that thru-body might add. Conclusion: meh.

Reputedly there is a rare owl in the Outer Hebrides that can hear the difference between string though body and string through bridge, and one or two types of bats from China. But no one has found any hard scientific evidence to prove that they can really make an accurate distinction. And for my part, since my audience rarely has owls or bats of any breed, I don’t give it a second thought.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Well, I love playing w/ a pick while palm muting. Those "nipples" would be in my way.

I'm not a designer, but I like the string through body bridges for comfort + the fact that the strings actually push the bridge plate onto the body nicely, and you don't rely on the bridge screws holding the bridge. Seems like better logic to me.

 

[David Jayne]

Reputedly there is a rare owl in the Outer Hebrides that can hear the difference between string though body and string through bridge, and one or two types of bats from China. But no one has found any hard scientific evidence to prove that they can really make an accurate distinction. And for my part, since my audience rarely has owls or bats of any breed, I don’t give it a second thought.

Until this owl is subjected to a quadruple-blind, placebo controlled and randomized study we'll never really know.

 

[BAG]

Well, I love playing w/ a pick while palm muting. Those "nipples" would be in my way.

Same here.
I've got a shim in the neck of most of my basses and the main reason was to be able to get the low action I like without having any of the height adjusting screws poking above the saddle. The smooth tops of the Ray Ross might be OK, but I can't see any reason to spend so much just to try it.

 

[BunchyMutt]

Same here.
I've got a shim in the neck of most of my basses and the main reason was to be able to get the low action I like without having any of the height adjusting screws poking above the saddle. The smooth tops of the Ray Ross might be OK, but I can't see any reason to spend so much just to try it.

Do you normally rest your palm on the saddles themselves? Seems like we’re tall not talking about a lot of difference, especially since bridges from Rickenbacker or MusicMan have muted so much further from the saddles than where your palm would be on a Ray Ross bridge

 

[BAG]

I do generally rest my palm on the saddles. A little movement forward for more muting and a little back for less allows me to get a LOT of different tones and dynamics.
These days I probably play 80-90% fingerstyle but some nerve issues in my right shoulder recently made me use the pick only for a week or so and reminded me how much I like the sound of a pick on flats.

 

[BunchyMutt]

I do generally rest my palm on the saddles. A little movement forward for more muting and a little back for less allows me to get a LOT of different tones and dynamics.
These days I probably play 80-90% fingerstyle but some nerve issues in my right shoulder recently made me use the pick only for a week or so and reminded me how much I like the sound of a pick on flats.

I hear ya. And great job translating my previous response full of errors thanks to writing on a small phone

 

[Rockbobmel]

Same here.
I've got a shim in the neck of most of my basses and the main reason was to be able to get the low action I like without having any of the height adjusting screws poking above the saddle. The smooth tops of the Ray Ross might be OK, but I can't see any reason to spend so much just to try it.

why can’t you just grind the set screws down so they won’t poke out. Then you don’t have to shim the necks.

 

[chopthebass427]

Ray has the same last name as me, so the product has to be awesome. I would love to try one of these bridges on one of my custom basses. And I would be even more interested if he made a headless unit.

 

[BAG]

why can’t you just grind the set screws down so they won’t poke out. Then you don’t have to shim the necks.

That would work, but in some cases that would put the saddles on the deck with no further adjustment possible. It would also mean more work and the potential for me to screw it up being the clutz that I am with power tools.

 

[ixlramp]

A gauge was hooked onto the string at the point where it met the saddle/tone pin and was raised until the upforce from the gauge just exceeded the downforce enough to allow a 10 thou feeler to be slipped under the hinge at the tone pin and under the saddle height screws.

Interesting experiment.
Measuring the necessary upwards force on the string at that point to just overcome downforce is not necessarily the same as measuring the downforce under the tonepin/height screws though. I am unsure how much this changes things and i am unsure how reliable an experiment that is.

But anyway, i am unsure now whether the downforce is higher or lower.
I also suspect it may not be critical. For 3 reasons:

1. As you have written, any additional downforce over a particular value might not help. Perhaps all that matters is just enough downforce to prevent rattling of components.

2. Those who use the RR bridge report no problems you might expect from insufficient downforce. The ultimate test is to use the bridge, and from the reports it seems to perform at least as well as conventional bridges.

3. As this is such a different way to anchor a string, 'downforce' may now be partially irrelevant or its importance greatly changed.

And I would be even more interested if he made a headless unit.

Ha ... this has been mentioned before, maybe by you. I thought it was a joke because you could not tune the string without altering the intonation point.

 

[Turnaround]

I think my test is valid. It may not be accurate to the pound, but clearly if the up force required to neutralize the downforce in both cases is significantly different, I think that indicates a significant difference in downforce. But I don't expect there will be any problems because of the lesser downforce provided by the RR bridge. The only problem I have is with the claim that there is much more downforce than a conventional bridge.

 

[BAG]

The ultimate test is to use the bridge, and from the reports it seems to perform at least as well as conventional bridges.

From the few reports of users this does appear to be the case.

The only problem I have is with the claim that there is much more downforce than a conventional bridge.

And until he provides any proof at all it will remain only a claim. And like his other claims....

RayRoss will maintain to his grave that this hardware is the most cost effective upgrade you could ever perform on a bass. You cannot achieve results like this with pickups, preamps, or strings. Some market success has provided tons of feedback and response from players all over the world. Enough at this point for for me to say this: RayRoss is not a bridge. It is a studio grade"pre-amp" and reference monitor for the bass, and it is MECHANICAL in nature. No plugs, cords, dials, etc..All the sound, instantly. No more dead spots. No more trouble hearing what you are playing, for you or anyone listening. Everything ELSE is a bridge.

No proof whatsoever has been offered other than his word.

Had he been less confrontational over any questioning of his bridge and its' merits and simply stated that "to his ear" and possibly "those that have tried it" that it improves tone and sustain then this thread could have been completely different and possibly been a very positive selling tool. Sure, the builder's of any new gear are going to claim benefits but by making spurious claims of the magic abilities of his bridge and then attacking anyone who questioned his claims he has shot himself in the foot. I actually like the look of it and will always have an open mind to something new, but thanks to this thread won't be trying this piece of gear.

 

[David Jayne]

I think he really blew his marketing here. If you're trying to sell a thing you don't argue with people about it, and you don't make lofty claims that can't be proven. If I were him I'd start over and just say "It's cool, it's different, and I know you're gonna like it. Try it for a week and if you don't agree, return it for full refund no questions." You get a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[BAG]

I think he really blew his marketing here. If you're trying to sell a thing you don't argue with people about it, and you don't make lofty claims that can't be proven. If I were him I'd start over and just say "It's cool, it's different, and I know you're gonna like it. Try it for a week and if you don't agree, return it for full refund no questions." You get a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

Yep. Well said.

 

[jd56hawk]

Ray Ross Bass Bridge

 

[bholder]

Interesting design, but I don't think I like the way the overwrap section is part of the active speaking string length. Needs spacers of some sort.

 

[Lownote38]

Interesting design, but I don't think I like the way the overwrap section is part of the active speaking string length. Needs spacers of some sort.

I mentioned before that I don't like that either. I pluck back there sometimes, so it would just feel wrong.

 

[ixlramp]

I saw in StefanMarinov's video, posted in the other long Ray Ross bridge thread, interesting news that the Ray Ross bridge is being scientifically studied by Jonathan Kemp.
I am tagging @jak352 here in case they were not aware of this thread.