Ray Ross Bridges

[StefanMarinov]

Ballet does nothing for me either, maybe you are a big fan. That also is OK.

Not at the slightest lol


Man I think you should try it if you get the chance - just to see for yourself what the sound difference is. It’ll always weigh a lot more if you do it, rather than me or anybody else trying to convince you, and not to forget YouTube sound compression and so on.

 

[StefanMarinov]

Not at the slightest lol


Man I think you should try it if you get the chance - just to see for yourself what the sound difference is. It’ll always weigh a lot more if you do it, rather than me or anybody else trying to convince you, and not to forget YouTube sound compression and so on.

Just to add - that makes the edit in my previous post a moot point. If you don’t hear a sound difference worth considering, then it doesn’t really matter. Ballet. Everyone’s ears work differently, our minds value different things. And that’s ok.

 

[tzohn]

Some considerations only by looking at the photos. So maybe I'm wrong.

1) The tone-pin thread is under considerable transverse force when rotating and this is not a good engineering practice. Dirt accumulation could make things worse. Counteracting the tendency of the ball-end to rotate when adjusting the action is questionable.
2) The tone-pin slide has the tendency to rotate due to the moment created from the string pull forming a "hinge" along the slide's front edge. The only thing that can keep the slide parallel in contact with the bridge is the intonation screw which of course will be under transverse force too (upwards). That means that the slide is not actually pressing against the bridge surface because the intonation screw is deforming elastically. So the only high-force point of contact is the slide's front edge.
3) The protruding intonation screws is a hazard. At least there should be a plastic ball shaped cap or something.

 

[Turnaround]

Not at the slightest lol


Man I think you should try it if you get the chance - just to see for yourself what the sound difference is. It’ll always weigh a lot more if you do it, rather than me or anybody else trying to convince you, and not to forget YouTube sound compression and so on.

Maybe some day I'll get the chance to play a bass with one installed. Until then my opinions are based only on the claims being made, the experience of others and my own concerns about the design. Your own experience are measured into my opinion. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[StefanMarinov]

Maybe some day I'll get the chance to play a bass with one installed. Until then my opinions are based only on the claims being made, the experience of others and my own concerns about the design. Your own experience are measured into my opinion. Thanks for the feedback.

Appreciate the talk man. Thanks.

 

[BAG]

In the two videos I reversed the order of what bridge I use first, with the same new strings - that didn’t change anything in my opinion.

My only concern with your methodology is that by using the same strings it is possible that one could have twisted during re-installation on the original bridge. During the video it did appear that one string in particular had less brightness than the others compared to the RRB.

This however also points to one definite positive for the RRB in that twisted strings should really never be a problem.

 

[StefanMarinov]

My only concern with your methodology is that by using the same strings it is possible that one could have twisted during re-installation on the original bridge. During the video it did appear that one string in particular had less brightness than the others compared to the RRB.

This however also points to one definite positive for the RRB in that twisted strings should really never be a problem.

I see what you mean man.
I did reverse the order of the bridge testing - and I’m usually very careful not to twist strings - on any bridge I’d always make sure the barrel slots in its closest natural position by leaving that end loose and turning on the tuner to bring the barrel into the slot. I’ve had issues with strings twisting in the past (with other bridges) and sounding like there’s a phaser on them, and that made me very OCD about it.

I have a (very bad) habit to put my G stings’ action too low (which I’m working on) and that might have been the brightness decrease you’ve heard. Or just a bad batch of Elixir (yeah had that in the past too).


In either case, stock bridge first or Ray Ross first, the order had no effect on the difference between the two, I heard the same thing happening both times in favour of the Ray Ross bridge. In this case I’d personally say string wear is negligible, especially since they’re Elixir.

 

[StefanMarinov]

Actually if you watch either of my comparison videos - the slap one or bridge pickup one, and I’ve noticed that today(again), you can hear a slight decrease of volume and brightness on the G string on most of my basses - and this is yet another reason I love forums for - they frequently remind me to get my head down and sort my own house out.


Edit: I meant the videos I made earlier this year comparing different basses, not the recent Ray Ross ones.

 

[Turnaround]

My only concern with your methodology is that by using the same strings it is possible that one could have twisted during re-installation on the original bridge. During the video it did appear that one string in particular had less brightness than the others compared to the RRB.

This however also points to one definite positive for the RRB in that twisted strings should really never be a problem.

Twisting in a string can occur during installation. As the string wraps around the post it will rotate laterally (along its axis). Any sailor or anyone who has tried to coil a rope or anyone who has coiled a long extension cord will tell you that you need to twist it in your fingers as you coil it. So if you lock the ball-end of the string into the RR bridge post as you wind the string it will induce twist in the string just as with any other bridge where the ball end is not free to rotate. So with the RR bridge you just want to make sure that the ball end doesn't get locked into position before you have completely wound the string on the tuner post.

 

[StefanMarinov]

Twisting in a string can occur during installation. As the string wraps around the post it will rotate laterally (along its axis). Any sailor or anyone who has tried to coil a rope or anyone who has coiled a long extension cord will tell you that you need to twist it in your fingers as you coil it. So if you lock the ball-end of the string into the RR bridge post as you wind the string it will induce twist in the string just as with any other bridge where the ball end is not free to rotate. So with the RR bridge you just want to make sure that the ball end doesn't get locked into position before you have completely wound the string on the tuner post.

Yup exactly how I do it and I had that habit from the past with other bridges. Always leaving it as loose as possible until the end.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

Ok mate, thanks for replying. I, as a consumer don’t see problems - that’s why I’m a bit puzzled with all this.


Edit: I don’t see any practical problems is what I mean. As an end user, it holds the strings in place, looks good and sounds better than the other bridges I’ve tried.
If scientifically proving that this design is flawed (engineering right?) outweighs the positives that come out of it (something that again hasn’t been tested by the people opposing but I guess engineering and science can bring enough on the table to get an idea of how those positives would actually sound like too), then that’s fair enough.

From what I have seen in your videos the RR bridge certainly doesn`t stand in the way of enjoyable musical expression. But, your skill and opinion (however strong) should not be confused with scientific support for the claims Ray Ross made.

 

[BunchyMutt]

From what I have seen in your videos the RR bridge certainly doesn`t stand in the way of enjoyable musical expression. But, your skill and opinion (however strong) should not be confused with scientific support for the claims Ray Ross made.

Agreed, the two shouldn't be conflated. His experience matters though, and if anyone discounts his experience because it's that and not a scientific test then to remain consistent they forfeit the right to take any gear review that's not a test into consideration. Differing opinions about the RRB based on experience or postulations are a different matter

 

[StefanMarinov]

From what I have seen in your videos the RR bridge certainly doesn`t stand in the way of enjoyable musical expression. But, your skill and opinion (however strong) should not be confused with scientific support for the claims Ray Ross made.

Oh no mate, I never made any scientific claims in my posts. My view is based on the sound benefits my ears can hear and to share my experience on a couple of questions raised about possible discomfort when played with pick or palm muted - again no issue.

Don’t know anything about downforce, inharmonicity (in the pure technical sense but I’ve got an idea of what it would sound like) (although not hearing any), (also what margins are we talking about, anybody got any numbers? 5%? 0.01? What about on other bridges? What is an acceptable margin of inharmonicity and who decides that?) and I won’t argue with anyone studied acoustics or physics, as long as we agree that they’ll make no untested claims that the design affects (and worsens) the tone. For any other argument I haven’t got the knowledge to be a part of.

 

[RodRy]

Announcing The Ray Ross™ Saddle-Less Bass Bridge

Pg 10 is my favorite

"I will also state, i never went to college, barely graduated highschool. Everything i know has been self taught. I dont know anything about fluid dynamics. I dont even know what "classical mecahnics" is.
I do know beyond a shaddow of a doubt that my bridge DOES something for the bass. My patent atty doesnt understand it, my machinist told me it wouldnt work (who is also a bassist). I went to the local college to have an engineering professor do the downforce math, because i couldnt. Whatever claim i made, i wanted it to be verifiable. He didnt get it either."

As an engineer, I think this is where some of the advantage of my classes comes in. I can explain the mechanics of the things I build. It's that ability to communicate the ideas that works well in a forum.

Ray has really come up with something interesting. But I read the other thread, and the disconnect seemed to be in the ability to explain what his bridge is doing in a way that gave technical-minded readers like myself a feeling of confidence and understanding. I've heard his players on YT, and it's clear that something is working, so the nay-sayers are wrong to complain that it won't work, or that it will produce poor tone. The proof is right there for anyone to check out.

I'd like to try one of Ray's bridges myself, and at $140 I might. But I would even more like to understand where the downforce is coming from that couples the string to the body of the instrument. I think I understand it, and have a diagram in my head that at least makes sense to me, but since I didn't invent it, I have to admit that I don't have confidence in my thoughts on it.

Of course, the other theory I have is that downforce is irrelevant and we've been chasing a pipe dream of it for nearly 80 years. After all, Leo was a tinkerer with no formal engineering training, and we've been following his teachings slavishly. Clearly, he got something right. But maybe he could not really explain the mechanics of it either?

I could, I say, I could be wrong.

 

[RodRy]

I'd be hesitant to take advice from a bass bridge builder who doesn't know what drop tuning is. I hope the buyer still gets his tech friend to help out.

Come on man, that was a pretty snarky answer. I encourage you to give the guy more slack.

I know what "drop tuning" is, but still wondered what exactly a "drop B and C" is. We don't all play every type of music, so we don't know what is cool in circles that spin outside our own.

 

[Lownote38]

These threads are becoming tiresome. If you like the bridges, use them. If not, don't use them. Simple as that. The designer could also take a more educational approach when discussing this design rather than being combative. Keeping your cool is better for sales.

 

[RodRy]

These threads are becoming tiresome. If you like the bridges, use them. If not, don't use them. Simple as that. The designer could also take a more educational approach when discussing this design rather than being combative. Keeping your cool is better for sales.

Let me see if I understand your point.

If you like the threads read them, if not, don't read them. Simple as that.

I do agree that being combative is not helpful.

 

[Lownote38]

Let me see if I understand your point.

If you like the threads read them, if not, don't read them. Simple as that.

I do agree that being combative is not helpful.

Every time I get into the hardware/repair section, it seems like I see another thread about this bridge. They should all be merged. It's unproductive to keep starting the same argument with no end.

 

[MattZilla]

These threads are becoming tiresome. If you like the bridges, use them. If not, don't use them. Simple as that. The designer could also take a more educational approach when discussing this design rather than being combative. Keeping your cool is better for sales.

this thread is almost old enough to graduate from diapers to using a toilet.

Are you not tired of threads like “tell me about compressors”, “I don’t get Vulfpeck”, “What string will sound more sour cream & onion plus kinda purple skyscraper than the unknown strings that came with my used bass?”, and the classic “how do I get more neck dive?”

Ray, the designer, clearly is not capable of taking an educational approach, nor of being diplomatic. That almost makes the whole thing more enjoyable. The downforce is easy to calculate and to illustrate, but the educated people with whom Mr. Ross consulted don’t know how to explain it to someone who refused to learn algebra, let alone basic Physics, any better than they could explain it to a person as old as this thread.

The only thing the bridge does, with or without its questionable fastener choice, with or without its poor ergonomics, with or without its nice machining work, is turn every string into an exposed core string á la Rotosound PSD and thus enhance a ton of overtones which most bassists have little to no use for.

Ray is really short changing both himself and a large portion of the small portion of the bass community who do want all of those overtones by wasting time and resources with Fender style basses instead of going into the multi scale erb instruments.

 

[Snaxster]

It's unproductive to keep starting the same argument with no end.

Hello. My agreement with you on this point notwithstanding, I think that you are yelling into the void here.

TalkBass is underpinned by rehashing. Whether due to forgetfulness, laziness, lack of imagination, mimicry, obsession, inexperience, OCD, spite, or whatever, the same thread topics and arguments appear again repeatedly for years on end.

Good luck stemming that tide. They won't stop because we asked them to nicely. They won't stop for any reason.