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Reading music and elitism

I think reading itself isn't elitist, but what some people perceive as elitist is the adversarial, haughty and condescending tone of some of the people who read and think everyone should change to suit their values.

Removing the tabs from a magazine for everybody to suit the opinions of a select few because their opinions are more worthy and because the masses 'don't know what's good for them', IS elitist.

It's been established again and again that both systems have their place, and that for the needs and desires of many players alternative systems of learning are adequate to a highly functional level, not limited to but including tabs.

The fact that so many experienced players keep coming back to this issue to battle it out in an adversarial way is kind of strange.

Some people need to realise that hardly anybody cares about the fact that they COULD work in a function band if they read music. Being a professional musician in that way is not deemed desirable to many people and they basically don't care about whether somebody can get this gig or that gig. They work their own job in their own career and they do music as a hobby and want to learn to do stuff their idols do because it's a thrill.

I teach people with different jobs like doctors, a nuclear physicist, teachers, businessmen, accountants etc etc. They don't give a crap about playing in a function band, cruise boat, getting WELL PAID gigs etc, they just want to learn music for fun. They are the majority. If you get all judgemental with people like that because "they'll never be a proper musician" they'll just think your a condescending idiot who is full of themselves, wants to see everything their way, and doesn't have a realistic perspective on their own importance or the importance of their trade.

It's like somebody running a cookery course going "you'll never be a professional cook who can make a load of microwave pub meals in less than thirty minutes and get regular paid work as a cook" to somebody who already has a much better job earning proper money and wants to learn to cook a few things for their own enjoyment.

Playing in a function band is the musical equivalent of making microwave meals to a lot of musicians so if you're saying 'you'll never be able to do that if you don't read' then most people's reaction would be 1. Who cares. and 2. If that's the main reason to read then I definitely think it's a bad idea.

Lots of people get defensive about reading because it's the only thing they can cling on as making them special and righteous in an otherwise totally bland music career where other people who work less get more adulation and they're jealous, resentful and angry about it. Basically, classic bass players, which is probably why guitarists don't argue about reading music and whether people should do it.

These threads in the 'general instruction' section have nothing to do with instruction and everything to do with experienced musicians who should know better getting into petty squabbles about an issue that they just won't let go of.
Boy oh boy, talk about elitism!

So it's like that, eh? You want to take the gloves off and get real? I'll get real with you. You think reading is only good to pick up wedding and cruise ship gigs, eh? Well dude, I have traveled the country and many parts of the world playing music that I truly enjoy for the most part, I've been able to play arenas, stadiums and large theaters with a staff of people who cater to my every reasonable need, and yes, I do get way more paid than the very talented people I know who don't read and are still kissing the asses of clubowners who think they're doing you a huge favor by paying your 4-pc band $200 a night. And I no longer have to work a job I hate in order to survive and make a decent living.

None of that, and I mean absolutely none of that, would have been possible if I didn't know how to read.

So take that info and make your own decisions about whether my career is totally bland. But I can assure you that the only thing bland about it is sitting in airplanes, and I'm not rich but I'm pretty FN happy with it, much more happy than I was getting the shaft by cheap clubowners and playing originals to audiences of other bands and their girlfriends. And you are every bit the elitist you accuse us of being, just in reverse.
 
Does it make you a better player?
Sure.
Having a good ear is still the greatest tool you can have though for 99% of situations. I've never been on a gig (that wasn't mine) where there was a music stand or a sheet of music. In fact, I don't think I ever seen anyone actually write music or hand out music sheets.
It's all about what you want to get out of your expierence.
Two things:

1. Not sure where the idea of having a good ear and knowing how to read became mutually exclusive, but it definitely didn't come from readers. If anything, reading totally sharpened my already good ear skills, and other readers will tell you the same thing.

2. I'll repeat a paragraph I wrote to a guy who learned to read when he was a kid but never used it on a gig:

"It isn't all about sticking a sheet of music under your nose and being able to sight read it. It's about learning chord structure, it's about learning the names of the notes you're playing, it's also about understanding what's going on with music at a higher level than you had before, which I'm sure happened with you. If you never read another sheet of music again in your life, you benefitted from it."
 
Boy oh boy, talk about elitism!

So it's like that, eh? You want to take the gloves off and get real? I'll get real with you. You think reading is only good to pick up wedding and cruise ship gigs, eh? Well dude, I have traveled the country and many parts of the world playing music that I truly enjoy for the most part, I've been able to play arenas, stadiums and large theaters with a staff of people who cater to my every reasonable need, and yes, I do get way more paid than the very talented people I know who don't read and are still kissing the asses of clubowners who think they're doing you a huge favor by paying your 4-pc band $200 a night. And I no longer have to work a job I hate in order to survive and make a decent living.

None of that, and I mean absolutely none of that, would have been possible if I didn't know how to read.

So take that info and make your own decisions about whether my career is totally bland. But I can assure you that the only thing bland about it is sitting in airplanes, and I'm not rich but I'm pretty FN happy with it, much more happy than I was getting the shaft by cheap clubowners and playing originals to audiences of other bands and their girlfriends. And you are every bit the elitist you accuse us of being, just in reverse.
Thank you, Jimmy! I have to admit when I read that earlier post it stung and I felt totally misunderstood as to what I do. I have had the chance to play with some bonafide Music Legends as well, and I guarantee that would have never happened if I hadn't learned Standard Notation and how to read Music. I wouldn't get half the studio work I get if I didn't have that skill as well.
Oh, and in the time we've all been talking/arguing about this we could have each practiced 30 minutes to an hour at least-Reality Check!
 
I think you should know how to use all tools available.

Notation, TABS, Charts, Ears

just like learning to use your fingers and a pick ....

The more tools you have available to easier your job is going to be.


Using tabs exclusively to me is like trying to use only vice grips to work on a car. Sure I can do the work with only vice grips. But it's going to take longer and be more difficult versus having a toolbox full of tools to use.

I have seen very few tabs that include rhythm, notes, song structure ... i can understand using a tabs exclusively if each one has all three of those elements.

Just don't understand .... Why do you want to limit yourself? Guess everything is relative to the specific person. I'm not loosing sight of that. I understand the hobby player not wanting to learn to read. But if you want to get paid for playing music. Increase your potential to do so by learning everything you can.
 
One of the comments was stupid. The other, while elitist was a poor choice of words, does have some truth to it. In the end the magazine makes money by people purchasing it. Some people don't want to be a pro bass player and don't want to read music. They just want to learn songs and have fun.

Nothing wrong with that. BP is for 'all' types. There are plenty of other places to go if you want transcriptions of stuff that is more difficult ( without TAB ).

I personally don't use/like the TAB stuff. They don't make the magazine specific to what 'I' want. There are others out there too.
 
Music is a language, I think we have a responsibility to learn to read and write this language as musicians.

TABs- What the F, pictograms? we don't need written music- really?

Those that feel this as elitist reflects a greater trend in this society; "the dumbing-down of America." We see this in many school were kids that excel are labeled Nerds or catering curriculum to lowest common denominator.

Anything worth learning or doing is hard! Not everyone can do it. We should encourage people to do hard things, be the best they can be, not criticize the hard working, dedicated students of music. Being able to read and write increases your musical vocabulary, allows to express your ideas and communicate them to other musicians. If that is elitist, OK. We should all join the elite.! FWIW - IMOHO etc.
 
Thank you, Jimmy! I have to admit when I read that earlier post it stung and I felt totally misunderstood as to what I do. I have had the chance to play with some bonafide Music Legends as well, and I guarantee that would have never happened if I hadn't learned Standard Notation and how to read Music. I wouldn't get half the studio work I get if I didn't have that skill as well.
Oh, and in the time we've all been talking/arguing about this we could have each practiced 30 minutes to an hour at least-Reality Check!
Excellent point, Roy! I'm still going to post until I wake up a little more ;) but practicing is a very good thing that everyone can and should do, no matter what level you're trying to achieve. And that I don't think anyone can argue!
 
I don't see how you can call something "elite" or "elitist" when it is open to so many people to participate in.

There are many groups I will never be able to be part of: billionaires; Mensa; astronauts; Catholic popes. Those groups are elite. "People who can read music" is so far from being "elite" that it's not even funny.

Learning to read ENGLISH is harder than learning to read music.
 
Wow I am amazed at how fast this piled up. I was reading that issue yesterday and was so excited, I have been trying to improve my reading for the last year and usually tape over the tab in the book.

People that want tab to stay aren't really trying to play bass they are trying to play along, and as far as I am concerned, have no business reading a player's magazine. Your not going to learn something by not doing it, and why would you want to deny yourself a skill that will benefit your playing? I NEVER play with a pick, but that doesn't mean I have never worked on the skill, you never know when it may come up.

BP should use all the space saved and dedicate one page each month to a standard briefing on reading sheet music.

Tab has it's place, on the internet and for your beginner students, professionally published music should not come in tab.

That is my 2 cents.
 
BP just want's space for more adds.... is what i automatically think.

But using that space to give a lesson on how to read notation (in bass clef) would be a great edition. The problem is learning to read is cumulative. Someone coming in at the middle of a series of articles is going to be missing the basic info. Eventually you would run out of material.

that being said... buying HalLeonards Bass Method book... would be cheaper than a series of BP mags.
 
Well look, if not for the hobbyists and the beginners, BP wouldn't exist, and neither would all the great gear out there that we have to choose from. I don't mind having tab in there for them...I can ignore it.
 
I Took lessons for about 5 years with a private instructor and we worked out of the RealBook for alot of applications. I certainly had enough reading skills to figure it out. It really became apparent when I attempted to Transcribe solo's for my lesson homework, that I really need to get reading down pat.

After reading plenty of Jeff Berlin's (One of my Favorites) Old Posts on TB and interviews, I was inspired to really get down and do the work. I figured that all of the piano players Ive met had to learn to read, why should I as a Bass player be excempt from this learning experience. Just my 2 cents.....
 
IMHO, TAB=hobbyist and enthusiast
Notation=professional musician
I know there's a lot of Rock Stars that can't read a lick, but you have to remember that they have won the Music Biz equivalent of the Powerball. I was in a band with a record deal in the late 80s and I can tell you that all those little working gigs reading charts and notation and playing Jazz Tunes made my house payment because the pittance of an advance the label gave us surely wouldn't have.
If you are reading this, you can read music.

I respectfully have to disagree about the distinction between hobbyist and professional musician. I'm a hobbyist insofar as I have a day job that pays the bills and my playing is mostly relegated to weekend bar gigs but I can read both treble and and bass clef and regularly - daily - exercise the skill. I also find a good deal of personal satisfaction in being able to sight read a piece of music - maybe I'm just weird. I also know several pianists, a number of solo guitar players and couple of violinists all of whom play for themselves or at most do the ocassional restaurant gig and all of whom read anywhere from adequately to extremely well.

I never understood what the controversy was about. Outside the relatively small world of guitar players and bassists who play pop/rock covers people who learn to play an instrument are pretty much expected to learn to read.