Double Bass Remic Question

[Ric Vice]

Ric did you mean that you liked both the DPA and Remic mounts or did you mean that either mount also worked well with the Xlson?

Jim,
I do like both the Remic and DPA mounting systems. Neither of those mounts would work with the Xlson as they are proprietary to their own microphones.
If you use an Xlson so far the only compatible mounts out there are the H-Clamp or the Gollihur Bass On Stage. Neither of these mounts works with
my bass.

 

[Maple]

Neither of these mounts works with
my bass.

@Jim Dedrick - I would recommend borrowing an H-clamp to see if it works for you. They're much cheaper than the mics you'd consider putting in them. I have a carved bass with violin corners and mine seems pretty stable. I tried the H-clamp with a large condenser mic at home and it barely worked. The mic was just too heavy for the clamp. But lately, I have been using the clamp with a Rode NT and have had no troubles with it.

 

[Jim Dedrick]

@Jim Dedrick - I would recommend borrowing an H-clamp to see if it works for you. They're much cheaper than the mics you'd consider putting in them. I have a carved bass with violin corners and mine seems pretty stable. I tried the H-clamp with a large condenser mic at home and it barely worked. The mic was just too heavy for the clamp. But lately, I have been using the clamp with a Rode NT and have had no troubles with it.

Thanks Ric and M

@Jim Dedrick - I would recommend borrowing an H-clamp to see if it works for you. They're much cheaper than the mics you'd consider putting in them. I have a carved bass with violin corners and mine seems pretty stable. I tried the H-clamp with a large condenser mic at home and it barely worked. The mic was just too heavy for the clamp. But lately, I have been using the clamp with a Rode NT and have had no troubles with it.

Thanks Ric and Maple. Still searching and the Xlson is at the top of the list.

 

[rickwolff]

Thanks Ric and M

Thanks Ric and Maple. Still searching and the Xlson is at the top of the list.

Jim, If you would like to try the Xlson let me know. After it comes back from Nathan Levine in Alaska I could maybe send it up your way. I REALLY like the Xlson (Chuck Israels signature mic) but I haven't yet had the chance to compare it to the Remics. That will change on Tuesday, however, as Nathan is sending me a Red AND a Green to try while he is using the Xlson.

 

[Jim Dedrick]

Jim, If you would like to try the Xlson let me know. After it comes back from Nathan Levine in Alaska I could maybe send it up your way. I REALLY like the Xlson (Chuck Israels signature mic) but I haven't yet had the chance to compare it to the Remics. That will change on Tuesday, however, as Nathan is sending me a Red AND a Green to try while he is using the Xlson.

Rick- yup sign me up.

 

[rickwolff]

Rick- yup sign me up.

PM sent.

 

[rickwolff]

Since I will be receiving BOTH a Remic RED and a Remic GREEN from Nathan Levine tomorrow (while he is trying the Xlson Chuck Israels mic) I am going to try something that may not have been done before:

From the looks of the mics on Adam Bookers excellent review, it would appear that they are narrow enough where I should be able to mount both of them side by side on my bass.

I'm going to be playing with my favorite pianist Wednesday and Thursday so I'm going to bring my trusty Zoom H6 and record the gig. I will have separate channels for each mic so I can compare how they do in the same situation at the same time.

Fingers crossed. I'm hoping for a good demo recording. If it works, I'll post clips on Thursday.

 

[Adam Booker]

Sweet! I finally get to take the new “funky” Remic out on a gig tonight. Not a ton of those in the mountains! Will uodate tomorrow!

 

[Ric Vice]

Sweet! I finally get to take the new “funky” Remic out on a gig tonight. Not a ton of those in the mountains! Will uodate tomorrow!

Looking forward to hearing what Remic’s new design offering sounds like. With their mounting system it is easy to take the mic on and off the bass. The Remic 5400 (Red) is a exceptional studio mic. The Remic 5400LB (Green) is an amazing FOH live performance microphone. It can work very well into an amplifier as well, with a Grace Design Felix or the Headway EDB-2. My hope is that the new Remic will update and improve the 5400LB. Remic is constantly qathering live performance data at various jazz festivals each summer.

 

[Ric Vice]

From the looks of the mics on Adam Bookers excellent review, it would appear that they are narrow enough where I should be able to mount both of them side by side on my bass.......

Fingers crossed. I'm hoping for a good demo recording. If it works, I'll post clips on Thursday.

Best of luck Rick, because the capsule on each Remic microphone is three sided you wouldn’t want to set the two microphones close together. The Remic 5400 (Red) is a studio mic with a wider pickup pattern so it’s ideal for studio recording. The Remic 5400 LB ( Green) has a much narrower pickup area and higher gain ratio, which is designed for live performances. Hopefully this will help you in your endeavors.

 

[flatback]

In my many conversations with Thor back a few years ago he said (if I remember correctly) that both have the same omni directional mic only one is aimed at the face of the bass and it's pickup pattern shaped by the foam the LB green and the Red is aimed perpendicular so that it's main pickup pattern is what is coming off a wide surface of the instrument.
In my experience this is just how they work too: the Green one like a stethoscope sometimes overemphasizing the heart beat or rushing blood or whatever and the Red one like a well like a microphone. What I love about the Red one is that it is a mini omni, kind of surgically placed on the instrument (using the natural baffling behind the fingerboard or tailpiece) and if used with discretion (sometimes in some rooms just a tad adds a lot of dimension) I found it to be the best sounding, easiest mic to use with an amp and regular club type gigs. But it can feedback if you are not careful. I was super motivated to make it work for a long time and it works great. For duos and quiet trios it sounds great by itself, and on louder gigs it can work too, mostly, if you blend it.

Super curious about the new one. Looking forward to hearing what you think. As I told Thor, I dont think the green one is done yet for bass. It might work great on other instruments but for that much money there are way more dependable and sonically superior contact mics. The Ischell for example has it dialed in (at least on a lot of basses)

 

[Ric Vice]

In my many conversations with Thor back a few years ago he said (if I remember correctly) that both have the same omni directional mic only one is aimed at the face of the bass and it's pickup pattern shaped by the foam the LB green and the Red is aimed perpendicular so that it's main pickup pattern is what is coming off a wide surface of the instrument.

Glad you chimed in here Piro, I knew there was some kind of difference between the two capsule designs and I couldn't remember what it was. Thanks

In my experience this is just how they work too: the Green one like a stethoscope sometimes overemphasizing the heart beat or rushing blood or whatever and the Red one like a well like a microphone. What I love about the Red one is that it is a mini omni, kind of surgically placed on the instrument (using the natural baffling behind the fingerboard or tailpiece) and if used with discretion (sometimes in some rooms just a tad adds a lot of dimension) I found it to be the best sounding, easiest mic to use with an amp and regular club type gigs. But it can feedback if you are not careful. I was super motivated to make it work for a long time and it works great. For duos and quiet trios it sounds great by itself, and on louder gigs it can work too, mostly, if you blend it.

Actually, I've had good success with the Remic Green FOH. Sounds much fuller than any other mic, I've used. With the right EQ at the board it sounds fantastic. I recorded with the Remic Red this summer in a big concert hall, with a Steinway 9' Grand and
a trumpet. The engineer who records orchestras all over the states and in England loved the mic.

Super curious about the new one. Looking forward to hearing what you think. As I told Thor, I dont think the green one is done yet for bass. It might work great on other instruments but for that much money there are way more dependable and sonically superior contact mics. The Ischell for example has it dialed in (at least on a lot of basses)E]

As you said, originally Remic's were quite expensive, but these days you can get them for a lot less than they originally cost and Remic is frequently offering sales seasonally or on demos. So their still expensive compared to a pickup, but priced compeditively
with other mic's like the DPA and ATM. Just my take of course. They are on the upper end of instrument microphones for sure.

There always seems to be something out there that folks rave about for a while and then they come up for sale in the TB Classifieds a year later buy some of the same folks.

 

[rickwolff]

I've got a question for you experienced Remic users: I just got the Green today - the Red should arrive tomorrow. What I found strange was that whether I placed it under the fingerboard or under the tailpiece it had rather low output. I actually had to turn both the Pre-amp gain and the volume knob on my Genzler Wide Open !!!
It sounded quite good - especially under the tailpiece. Under the fingerboard, it picked up a thumpiness by being too close to my plucking hand.

I then tried putting the ART tube Pre in front of the amp and that gave me the necessary additional gain and headroom but it didn't sound as good or as natural as going straight into the amp.

Any thoughts? Do all of you get plenty of output from the Green directly into an amp?

 

[Ric Vice]

I've got a question for you experienced Remic users: I just got the Green today - the Red should arrive tomorrow. What I found strange was that whether I placed it under the fingerboard or under the tailpiece it had rather low output. I actually had to turn both the Pre-amp gain and the volume knob on my Genzler Wide Open !!!
It sounded quite good - especially under the tailpiece. Under the fingerboard, it picked up a thumpiness by being too close to my plucking hand.

I then tried putting the ART tube Pre in front of the amp and that gave me the necessary additional gain and headroom but it didn't sound as good or as natural as going straight into the amp.

Any thoughts? Do all of you get plenty of output from the Green directly into an amp?

Rick,
The Remic Green is a much hotter microphone, than the Remic Red. So yes, you will get more signal off the Green. Since Adam, Piro, and I all use the Grace Felix, we can easily tweak the gain and EQ. There is a low/mid frequency bump in the Green’s frequency response. So you have to work with the EQ. I’ve only used the Red in a recording studio and mostly used the Remic Green FOH.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The output amplitude from a microphone (even a condenser which has a higher output amplitude than a dynamic mic) is a lot lower than a piezo or even passive electromagnetic pickup. Usually there are mic preamps in the battery adapter for the typical double bass microphones (at least for my AT 35 and also for AKG electrets like the C411). So using the ART tube pre is a good idea, since you als need phantom power.

If your Genzler has an XLR in the gain should be adjustable for mic level input, but it might be limited to avoid harm to the amp when fed in with a instrument or line level signal.
And it is reasonable that the gain needs to be set to (almost) maximal position since microphone levels are the lowest ones in audio technology. A higher gain (like for dynamic, specially ribbon, mics) would need a very good mic amplifier that is expensive and probably never used by most buyers, so the limit for condensers is reasonable.

BTW, there is something similar like the FEThead from the same company that passes phantom power to the mic (needed for condensers, deadly for ribbons) which might work better with a lower sensitivity input, but you still need an amp with XLR and phantom power for that.

 

[Ric Vice]

I've got a question for you experienced Remic users: I just got the Green today - the Red should arrive tomorrow.

What I found strange was that whether I placed it under the fingerboard or under the tailpiece it had rather low output. I actually had to turn both the Pre-amp gain and the volume knob on my Genzler Wide Open !!!

Any thoughts? Do all of you get plenty of output from the Green directly into an amp?

I just remembered that if you check the Phantom Power voltage of the Genzler amp it's not running at 48 Volts. While there are varing opinions

as to what's acceptable voltage for a condenser microphone, Acoustic Image and Grace Design products supply 48 volts to the phantom.

I ran the Remic's into a Headway EDB-2 at 18 volts and thought they sounded fine, but each case may be different. This could possibly

be an issue.

 

[rickwolff]

Comparison of Remic Green with two other mics: a dynamic AKG D-112, and the ATM 350 clip-on condenser.

I just remembered that if you check the Phantom Power voltage of the Genzler amp it's not running at 48 Volts. While there are varing opinions

as to what's acceptable voltage for a condenser microphone, Acoustic Image and Grace Design products supply 48 volts to the phantom.

I ran the Remic's into a Headway EDB-2 at 18 volts and thought they sounded fine, but each case may be different. This could possibly

be an issue.

It's possible Ric, but I had always thought that the amount of voltage had more to do with things like Signal to Noise ration. In any case, going straight into the Genzler sounds better than using the ART Pre, but lacks headroom. I'm about to post some clips.

 

[Ric Vice]

Comparison of Remic Green with two other mics: a dynamic AKG D-112, and the ATM 350 clip-on condenser.




It's possible Ric, but I had always thought that the amount of voltage had more to do with things like Signal to Noise ration. In any case, going straight into the Genzler sounds better than using the ART Pre, but lacks headroom. I'm about to post some clips.

Rick,
Man, I love the sound you get out of that bass, it's exquisite. We'll if you're getting more out of the Remic Red with the ART, then something's going on. You're correct, that lower Phantom voltage effects the noise floor of the mic.

Looking at the Genzler pannel on their site, where the heck is the Phantom Power switch? I don't see one. Regardless, the Remic has a very linear gain structure, similar to the way the EA Doubler works. The volume comes up

gradually. You're also right about using the Remic under the tailpice, it sounds far better in that position than under the fingerboard. Plus, it gets in the way of your thumb as you move into the upper positions.

 

[rickwolff]

Audio clips comparing the Remic Green to 1) AKG D-112 dynamic mic, and 2) ATM 350 clip-on condenser.

The VIDEOS are primarily the acoustic sound of the bass going into the on-board XY mics on the Zoom H6. To hear the direct mic recordings click on the Soundcloud clips.





Individual tracks recorded from the PRE-EQ DI:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Adam Booker]

Audio clips comparing the Remic Green to 1) AKG D-112 dynamic mic, and 2) ATM 350 clip-on condenser.



Individual tracks recorded from the PRE-EQ DI:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Sounds great! Yes, I moved mine to the under the tailpiece position and am happier with the sound.
I have found that a little more gain is required in comparison to the p-up.

The new mic performed swimmingly at the gig last night. The highs are not as brittle as the original, and it has a good deal more gain before feedback. It has a mid-range bump around 450, and another around 200, plus puts out even MORE low end than the original green. All easily notched out, but Thorkild is still designing it based on feedback (no pun intended) from myself and other bassists he knows.