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Replying to a classified ad?

#42
I agree with alot being said here about the info that can be gathered by reading classified ads. It has helped me many times in making decisions

I can also see when the classifieds becomes a "ghost town" because of this.....MANY will feel that there is NO need to pay $20, just to have the space in their pm box because they are not using the classifieds anymore to sell.
 
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#45
David Wilson said:
Hi, this has nothing to do with bandwidth. The abuse of the 'only one bump per 24 hours' rule was making moderation of the classifieds unmanageable. Our moderators are volunteers, and when they get abuse for trying to enforce the rules it doesn't help. So now we are enforcing the rules via software.
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Um ask for more or different moderators because this is a ridiculous reason to not allow replies.

Edit: I will volunteer to help at least a couple hours a week.
 
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#47
I like reading what others post in the classifieds too, but I've had more than one ad derailed by confusing comments from people NOT trying to be helpful. I also remember an ad for a bass where someone posted about their own bass causing confusion about the bass actually for sale, as well as people posting comments saying the price was too high and other buffoonery.
 
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#49
The classifieds were how I found TalkBass. The classifieds, with the community access and contribution, are one of the reasons I love TalkBass. Without the valuable contribution of the very wise members in those ads, the community aspect goes away..... and that simply sucks.

People want to buy from people who can be trusted. The TB community is the best group of people I've come across on the web. Plus it's self -policed by people looking out for one another. Taking TB'ers out of the equation just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Plus, it turns the ads into a Craig's list type of ad. Boring. Questionable. Non-community based. Lame.
 
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#50
This is hilarious. 90% of the "valuable" posts in FS threads consist of "pm's replied", "sweet bass!", "aww man if this was 24 string I'd be all over it" etc. On the off chance that there is a piece of information that isn't stated by the OP then just PM them! What's the big deal?
 
#51
bobicidal said:
Um ask for more or different moderators because this is a ridiculous reason to not allow replies.

Edit: I will volunteer to help at least a couple hours a week.
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Put simply, you can't just make anyone a moderator. Mods can edit or delete posts at will and repost private information- an unscrupulous mod could cause a ton of damage. There isn't a huge amount of mods because they need a long trusted history here.

We were getting dozens and dozens of bump violations daily here- and those are just the ones that were caught. This was done a number of ways as well- some users created dupe accounts to bump their own threads or give themselves fake positive feedback. The classifieds aren't really a discussion forum. Most of the discussions that occurred in ads was due to the original poster not providing adequate info to begin with. Almost no discussion needs to happen with a thread that is posted with proper info- the rest of the sale/trade discussions that occur never belonged in those threads to begin with- they belong in PM.

And no, it is not ridiculous when a mod needs to spend hours a day cleaning up this stuff to try to make the site better only to get multiple users a week complaining to them, insulting them, or thinking they're some evil person out to get them.
 
#52
Bryan R. Tyler said:
Put simply, you can't just make anyone a moderator. Mods can edit or delete posts at will and repost private information- an unscrupulous mod could cause a ton of damage. There isn't a huge amount of mods because they need a long trusted history here.

We were getting dozens and dozens of bump violations daily here- and those are just the ones that were caught. This was done a number of ways as well- some users created dupe accounts to bump their own threads or give themselves fake positive feedback. The classifieds aren't really a discussion forum. Most of the discussions that occurred in ads was due to the original poster not providing adequate info to begin with. Almost no discussion needs to happen with a thread that is posted with proper info- the rest of the sale/trade discussions that occur never belonged in those threads to begin with- they belong in PM.

And no, it is not ridiculous when a mod needs to spend hours a day cleaning up this stuff to try to make the site better only to get multiple users a week complaining to them, insulting them, or thinking they're some evil person out to get them.
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I'm very discouraged by this answer, as it seems that the response is to just dig into the position that this isn't going to change.
As I'm sure you know, you're always going to get some folks who knee jerk and post inappropriately against the mods. You guys have a tough job and people shouldn't be insulting you. I understand where you're coming from with the extra work needed to keep folks from bumping against the rules...however, you guys need to pay attention to the feedback you're getting about this very big issue. If you read all these posts you can see many have pointed out that there's a lot more to it than just the seller posting information. Whether the moderators like it or not, most of us who use the Classifieds were getting a lot out of it beyond just buying and selling, and having the seller only control the information flow is gonna open up a whole other can of worms. Perhaps there's some other solution or compromise that can be reached, but if this issue stands as is, I think you're going to lose a lot of members and see the classified section become just another Craigslist or E-bay. NOT what the members want obviously.
 
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#53
godblender said:
This is hilarious. 90% of the "valuable" posts in FS threads consist of "pm's replied", "sweet bass!", "aww man if this was 24 string I'd be all over it" etc. On the off chance that there is a piece of information that isn't stated by the OP then just PM them! What's the big deal?
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You obviously haven't been paying attention to all the posts. It goes way beyond that. Please go back and re-read the very legit concerns people are posting.
 
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#56
This is in reply to starman as it wont let me quote him, this is regarding not being able to bump multiple items a day , we can only bump 1 bass for sale not 2 or 3 just 1.

Dude I am in the same boat, extremely annoying. My renewal is in a month and if these errors and classifieds aren't back to how they were and what made me enjoy selling here I wont be renewing. I think some changes were for the better but the classifieds should not have been messed with at all, they were perfect and I guess I am one who is guilty of not deleting old bumps when adding new bumps but man I will if it saves the classifieds, what a disaster. I just want them the way they were. I also dont like the photo next to the title it just makes it seem weird, I know most probably dont agree but I am fine with the rest of the site I just want the classifieds normal and I will turn off all the alerts that were added.
 
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#57
I can tell you for sure though. If information in a thread, and therefore its transparency toward honesty is solely controlled by the OP, I will continue to sell, but I will stop buying from any member I dont have a good knowledge of on here. And I guarantee the "i was swindled on talkbass" threads will skyrocket.

Bryan, while there may be "no need for discussion" in a classified from a strict supply/demand perspective, there ABSOLUTELY is from a trust perspective. While buyers and sellers do have a bit of PayPal protection here and a feedback system it is NOT anywhere near the protection for fraud that they provide for purchases on ebay. If you doubt it, check paypal's policies. Ebay purchases are "in house" for paypal with an unchanging documentation they can trust. That is not so here and the bar they attain is much lower. The real protection is the community being able to call shenanigans. Remove this ability and just count the days til fraudulence reigns. Check the feedback ive left and see how many times I bought or sold to a first timer or someone with very little feedback. That will stop. New supporting members will find less people willing to buy from them. Soon, the classifieds move reeeaaaal slow and becomes Kmart.
Please, look at the points of (so far) all but one member. We all hate this idea and find it very counterproductive.
 
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#58
younggun said:
I'm very discouraged by this answer, as it seems that the response is to just dig into the position that this isn't going to change.
As I'm sure you know, you're always going to get some folks who knee jerk and post inappropriately against the mods. You guys have a tough job and people shouldn't be insulting you. I understand where you're coming from with the extra work needed to keep folks from bumping against the rules...however, you guys need to pay attention to the feedback you're getting about this very big issue. If you read all these posts you can see many have pointed out that there's a lot more to it than just the seller posting information. Whether the moderators like it or not, most of us who use the Classifieds were getting a lot out of it beyond just buying and selling, and having the seller only control the information flow is gonna open up a whole other can of worms. Perhaps there's some other solution or compromise that can be reached, but if this issue stands as is, I think you're going to lose a lot of members and see the classified section become just another Craigslist or E-bay. NOT what the members want obviously.
Click to expand...

Actually the number of members who have replied negatively so far is still less than the number of members who post bump violations daily, and only a tiny fraction of the membership. Saying you speak for everyone isn't being realistic- quite a few of the people who have complained have bump violations in their history themselves. It's not a matter of paying attention to to what the members are saying- we're listening to all feedback. I do personally have a far more intimate knowledge of the classifieds than most others here. I've been buying/selling actively since 2002 and have moderated them as well. Simply put, the system's been in effect for less than 12 hours. No one complaining about non-technical issues has even given it the slightest hint of enough time to see how it will work out.

The seller always, and has always, controlled the information flow. Negative comments about users or items were never allowed in classified ads. All other users could post would be bumps, compliments, or questions. The bumps are unnecessary. Any compliments or questions can be added to the original post or seen through the feedback system. Most questions should be addressed in the OP to begin with- this new system will likely improve listings as sellers are going to want to be as thorough as possible from the get-go rather than trying to nickel and dime the information and photos they ad to try to get extra bumps.

And for the record, I'm not an admin- I have no say in whether this position stays or goes. I do know that people need to give it a chance though.

I'm not sure on why the "one bump per user per day" thing rather than per ad is happening to those who've asked via PM- hopefully that'll get resolved shortly.
 
#59
If you have dozens and dozens of 'bump violators' that get reported in a day, suspend those users for two weeks. All that will stop. No need to punish/drive away all the other users.

OR, why not let only the new 'bump' function move the thread to the top? Let the conversation flow, but the only thing that moves it to the top is a bump function from the OP?
 
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