Replying to a classified ad?

[msact]

How do I do this now? I only see a note saying that I do not have sufficient privileges to reply. How do I reply to someone else's ad?

 

[waynobass]

Without the ability to have a conversation in Classifieds, Talkbass will be as one-dimensional as Craigslist.

Please go back to letting us reply to ads! This is a COMMUNITY, not just one seller and one buyer.

 

[iualum]

Hi, this has nothing to do with bandwidth. The abuse of the 'only one bump per 24 hours' rule was making moderation of the classifieds unmanageable. Our moderators are volunteers, and when they get abuse for trying to enforce the rules it doesn't help. So now we are enforcing the rules via software.

Doesn't matter. It's STILL simply silly. Poorly, poorly thought out. Needs to be changed.

 

[iualum]

I understand and I do sympathize but I think the baby just went out with the bathwater. I find replies to ads an invaluable resource and I strongly feel that without them the classifieds are greatly devalued.

Yes, yes, a thousand times YES.

 

[Jaymi]

Please review the policy on this section. Discussion among members helps sell many items in the classifieds. This is not craigslist!

 

[iualum]

Not happy at all about not being able to reply to FS ads. I loved reading through conversations about different basses that were for sale and is one of the main reasons I supported TB.

Reminds me of the management at a place I worked. Dress code was 'casual business' but some sourpuss complained that one girl was showing too much cleavage. So instead of asking her to not do that, they knee-jerked and made everybody start wearing uniforms so now everybody wears the exact same thing. Never said one word to the one person who unkowingly caused it, they just punished everybody.

This is a sad turn of events

VERY!

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

If you have dozens and dozens of 'bump violators' that get reported in a day, suspend those users for two weeks. All that will stop. No need to punish/drive away all the other users.

OR, why not let only the new 'bump' function move the thread to the top? Let the conversation flow, but the only thing that moves it to the top is a bump function from the OP?

The "allowing thread discussions that don't bump the thread" thing was brought up before- I'm pretty sure it wasn't an option available. I wouldn't mind that.

As for the two week ban thing, 1. it wouldn't stop people from doing it (many users have been temp banned for doing it and did it again anyways), 2. we'd get just as many people as this complaining that that's too harsh a punishment, and 3. that still requires hours and hours of moderation.

 

[iualum]

I'm very discouraged by this answer, as it seems that the response is to just dig into the position that this isn't going to change.
As I'm sure you know, you're always going to get some folks who knee jerk and post inappropriately against the mods. You guys have a tough job and people shouldn't be insulting you. I understand where you're coming from with the extra work needed to keep folks from bumping against the rules...however, you guys need to pay attention to the feedback you're getting about this very big issue. If you read all these posts you can see many have pointed out that there's a lot more to it than just the seller posting information. Whether the moderators like it or not, most of us who use the Classifieds were getting a lot out of it beyond just buying and selling, and having the seller only control the information flow is gonna open up a whole other can of worms. Perhaps there's some other solution or compromise that can be reached, but if this issue stands as is, I think you're going to lose a lot of members and see the classified section become just another Craigslist or E-bay. NOT what the members want obviously.

 

[younggun]

If you have dozens and dozens of 'bump violators' that get reported in a day, suspend those users for two weeks. All that will stop. No need to punish/drive away all the other users.

OR, why not let only the new 'bump' function move the thread to the top? Let the conversation flow, but the only thing that moves it to the top is a bump function from the OP?

Precisely, this is the old "punish everyone for a few people's infractions".
And only allowing the bump function to push stuff to the top is an excellent idea. It may not be possible from a coding standpoint perhaps...but that's at least an example of a compromise idea.

Actually the number of members who have replied negatively so far is still less than the number of members who post bump violations daily, and only a tiny fraction of the membership. Saying you speak for everyone isn't being realistic- quite a few of the people who have complained have bump violations in their history themselves. It's not a matter of paying attention to to what the members are saying- we're listening to all feedback. I do personally have a far more intimate knowledge of the classifieds than most others here. I've been buying/selling actively since 2002 and have moderated them as well. Simply put, the system's been in effect for less than 12 hours. No one complaining about non-technical issues has even given it the slightest hint of enough time to see how it will work out.

The seller always, and has always, controlled the information flow. Negative comments about users or items were never allowed in classified ads. All other users could post would be bumps, compliments, or questions. The bumps are unnecessary. Any compliments or questions can be added to the original post or seen through the feedback system. Most questions should be addressed in the OP to begin with- this new system will likely improve listings as sellers are going to want to be as thorough as possible from the get-go rather than trying to nickel and dime the information and photos they ad to try to get extra bumps.

And for the record, I'm not an admin- I have no say in whether this position stays or goes. I do know that people need to give it a chance though.

I'm not sure on why the "one bump per user per day" thing rather than per ad is happening to those who've asked via PM- hopefully that'll get resolved shortly.

I never claimed to speak for some overwhelming majority of people, but really, a cursory look and you can see that many are already upset about it. As you stated, the new format has been in effect for 12 hours, so my contention is that there are already several threads and lots of discussion about this issue in a very short time frame. There are some very legit issues have been brought up that you didn't address in your post. How many more are going to complain and possibly leave as time goes on?
Also, you stated you're not an admin and have no ability to change this or not, but you are a moderator, which means you have access to the admin. This decision was made because of a problem the moderators are having though, so that seems a bit disingenuous to me to state you have nothing to do with it. Again, this is a very real issue. If you guys want to get entrenched in your decision making process and ignore the very legit concerns of the members, then you'll lose members and the way the community is will suffer. As I said before, perhaps there's some other compromises that can be reached? The idea that people should "give it a chance" is not workable, when "give it a chance" means "we've completely eliminated what you came here for." I'm all about giving the new forum changes a chance, even some of the ones I don't like regarding the UI. But this is far more than just changing the UI.

 

[bassarama]

I am simply astonished and overwhelmed at the same time of this new format thing.
Was the abuse of BUMPING that atrocious as to re-format a very useful, unique, and bass community oriented site.
I thought the TB volunteers were and are pretty thorough in their strict monitoring of the TB site in general, or at least that has been my experience, having been penalized for non intentional actions--that were without recourse or appeal ?
Well I think I will sit it out for a while, and see if things get straightened out, as it appears I am not alone in the mass confusion and general user-unfriendly new format. Good Luck TB in sorting through this.

I can't help but think of, or draw comparisons to a certain Luthier last summer/fall who had a major defection on his TalkBass site after one ongoing and lengthy resolution to a customer complaint. That Manufacturer Thread lost MOST of its loyal players/owners/subscribers overnight and to this day, IF I CAN FIND IT IN THE NEW FORMAT has scant activity.......

Patience is a virtue y'all.

 

[Jerry Ziarko]

And with that said, I agree with almost everything said here. It's not just having an open discussion about a certain piece of gear, but often being able to converse with a previous owner, as to pros and cons. EVERY piece of bass gear I currently own, (and that's way too much ) was purchased here on TB, some costing several thousand dollars. Buying sight (feel/ touch) unseen is always a risky proposition, positive feedback or not. I guarantee I would not have made many of these purchases, nor have been able to sell many of them without the a fore mentioned issues. With all of that said I LOVE being able to quickly scroll through the ads just by looking at the pics attached to the ad. That is a great time saver. I won't have to spend nearly as much time opening threads that are nothing like I expected without seeing the pic. Please give some serious consideration to restoring the classifieds back to something similar to what we've all grown to love about Talkbass. Thanks!

 

[Toolmybass]

This is hilarious. 90% of the "valuable" posts in FS threads consist of "pm's replied", "sweet bass!", "aww man if this was 24 string I'd be all over it" etc. On the off chance that there is a piece of information that isn't stated by the OP then just PM them! What's the big deal?

You obviously haven't been paying attention to all the posts. It goes way beyond that. Please go back and re-read the very legit concerns people are posting.

+1

 

[mimaz]

Precisely, this is the old "punish everyone for a few people's infractions".
And only allowing the bump function to push stuff to the top is an excellent idea. It may not be possible from a coding standpoint perhaps...but that's at least an example of a compromise idea.



I never claimed to speak for some overwhelming majority of people, but really, a cursory look and you can see that many are already upset about it. As you stated, the new format has been in effect for 12 hours, so my contention is that there are already several threads and lots of discussion about this issue in a very short time frame. There are some very legit issues have been brought up that you didn't address in your post. How many more are going to complain and possibly leave as time goes on?
Also, you stated you're not an admin and have no ability to change this or not, but you are a moderator, which means you have access to the admin. This decision was made because of a problem the moderators are having though, so that seems a bit disingenuous to me to state you have nothing to do with it. Again, this is a very real issue. If you guys want to get entrenched in your decision making process and ignore the very legit concerns of the members, then you'll lose members and the way the community is will suffer. As I said before, perhaps there's some other compromises that can be reached? The idea that people should "give it a chance" is not workable, when "give it a chance" means "we've completely eliminated what you came here for." I'm all about giving the new forum changes a chance, even some of the ones I don't like regarding the UI. But this is far more than just changing the UI.

Paul - PLEASE - if you read nothing else in this thread, please read this post completely!

 

[Up the dose]

Bump for allowing conversations in the classifieds.

 

[Up the dose]

Bump for bumping not affecting the position of the ad in the classified section

 

[String Cheesus]

I made my point very clear in one of the other threads, but i have to respond to something. I was a mod on a forum about photography, and you don't knowingly take up that position unless you're prepared and willing to spend hours a week moderating. The sense of community is gone for me, and wish there was a way to get my contribution back until this is resolved. I was upset earlier about this, but now I'm actually angry from Bryan R. Tyler's responses in here. If it's so hard to moderate the classifieds section, and the only viable option is to make this change so the mods don't have to work.....sounds like its time to replace the mods. Just my opinion....and I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[mimaz]

I made my point very clear in one of the other threads, but i have to respond to something. I was a mod on a forum about photography, and you don't knowingly take up that position unless you're prepared and willing to spend hours a week moderating. The sense of community is gone for me, and wish there was a way to get my contribution back until this is resolved. I was upset earlier about this, but now I'm actually angry from Bryan R. Tyler's responses in here. If it's so hard to moderate the classifieds section, and the only viable option is to make this change so the mods don't have to work.....sounds like its time to replace the mods. Just my opinion....and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Let's just say that a few responses struck a nerve with me also....

 

[younggun]

I made my point very clear in one of the other threads, but i have to respond to something. I was a mod on a forum about photography, and you don't knowingly take up that position unless you're prepared and willing to spend hours a week moderating. The sense of community is gone for me, and wish there was a way to get my contribution back until this is resolved. I was upset earlier about this, but now I'm actually angry from Bryan R. Tyler's responses in here. If it's so hard to moderate the classifieds section, and the only viable option is to make this change so the mods don't have to work.....sounds like its time to replace the mods. Just my opinion....and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I'm hoping its just too early to make assumptions like that. I can totally sympathize with the "bumping" issue creating too much work for the mods, and that there should be something done to alleviate the problem to some extent. I'm hoping that the mods and administrators will sympathize with the concerns on the users end though too, and realize that something other than a hardline needs to be taken. Let's work towards a solution rather than entrenching ourselves in positions and ultimatums. I've enjoyed and benefitted from this community too much to see it dissolve into only contention between mods and users.

 

[eyeballkid]

I wouldnt be angry at Bryan. He is simply relating his very valid experience and frustration from his perspective so people can understand why the change was made, and his concerns that will negatively impact him and the other mods if nothing is done about some people being chuckleheads. He said, its not his decision and his concerns do not reflect the stance of talkbass in this. He is a member (and a hard working one at that) who has a valid voice and input. Its cool. We're all in this together. Im sure we seem just as "entrenched" to him and he has fewer gunners in his trench after a long tour of duty. ;-)

 

[Phantasm]

I vote that you allow replies again. The ability to have other users chime in with information on the item for sale was invaluable, and sometimes I've had items that I've been looking at that other users were able to point out the reasons why it wasn't what was being portrayed. It's an invaluable resource, this community support in the For Sale forum.

 

[DaveLS]

Last thing I'm going to say about this because I think everything else has already been said, this website has been by far the easiest, most reliable, most pleasant and most successful place for me to buy and sell items on the Internet and in the real world. Everyone I deal with no matter if I'm the buyer or seller is happy about the process and the result and Im worried about how this change will affect that.

Besides that I'm happy with all the other changes and I understand that for the most part this upgrade was necessary (I've worked in IT for 20 years and almost nobody likes change). Nice job to everyone responsible. Hopefully we can come to an agreement on this one issue so everyone is happy.

Thank You Admins.

Oh and if you haven't yet, please read the TalkBass 2014 FAQ