Respect your elders

[Howard K]

My bias is that by being so rigid and doctrinaire about what Art is "supposed to be," you'll miss out on a lot more great music than I will

I utterly utterly completely agree.

About 6 months ago I saw a live 'come back' performance on TV by Craig David. He'd stepped away from the garage theme and was performing his latest track at the time 'what's your flava'.

Now make no mistake, the band were superb. The drummer was awesome, a real 'easy' groove, the bassist played 3 or 4 note, real fat lines, the horns were concise, the guitar was minimal yet purposeful and craig david's voice was incredible.
A really really good performance.
I would give (almost) anything to play a tour with a great band like that.

I sat on my sofa absolutley blown away. I couldnt find fault in it - even the song was good!!!!

Then I thought, "this is like a modern day soul track" - and it made perfect sense. I saw an interview with CD on Jonathon Ross and he has half the same influences as me, he's a telented singer who's into great music. The fact that he started via garage is irrelevant, the fact that he sells chart singles is irrelevant.
the fact that he performs good music is what's important, nothing else.


Wendy, re: Marcus Miller.
I know precisely what you're saying, matter of opinion etc.
BUT!
Mr Millers music is based soley around his bass playing, do we agree on that? I'd be incredibley surprised if it was written by any other means?
Take that away and what do you have - a bunch of, in most cases, utterly weak songs.
Power for example is a great groove... but it sure aint a good song, IMO. Where's the feeling in it? All I can feel is 'rippin bass solo'?!

Take Jaco's bass playing away from his compositions and you have incredible pieces of music that could be performed equally well in all sorts of context.
I'll argue this one till the day I die - if you already Jaco's self titled album, cool - we agree to disagree. If not, buy it, listen to it, then tell me Marcus Miler is a greater bass player and musician.
Trust me, I was all "Jaco, who? So what?" before i really listened to this album.


As for Stuart Hamm... dont even go there!
The guy is a bass monster, that's grrrreat.

His two hand tapping solos are complete sh1te. sure its technical and really dificult.. but no harder than playing a piano!!!! And a piano sounds a zillion times better!!!

I think the key here is that if a song is good it will transcend genre and context easily. Obviously there are many exceptions to every rule, but in general, i believe this is true.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Howard K
Wendy, re: Marcus Miller.
I know precisely what you're saying, matter of opinion etc.
BUT!
Mr Millers music is based soley around his bass playing, do we agree on that? I'd be incredibley surprised if it was written by any other means?
Take that away and what do you have - a bunch of, in most cases, utterly weak songs.
Power for example is a great groove... but it sure aint a good song, IMO. Where's the feeling in it? All I can feel is 'rippin bass solo'?!

Do you realize that his solo work is just a small part of what he's written? The idea that his music is based solely on the bass is something that I, possibly being more familiar with his work, simply can't agree with.

I saw him last night. To say "Power" lacks feeling... well, if you had been there you might have a different opinion. Then again maybe you wouldn't. Personal preference.

Take Jaco's bass playing away from his compositions and you have incredible pieces of music that could be performed equally well in all sorts of context.

As much as I loved Jaco, whenever I read stuff like this it just... I don't even know how to put it. You'd think that writing a song around a bassline was a bad thing. You'd also think that while his playing could be amazing it could also be, when he fell back on his signature licks, predictable... just like a lot of other great bassists. Jaco didn't play in any more varied styles than Marcus... if you think that's not true I'd love to hear examples to the contrary.

Ever hear Jaco just lay out of a song and not throw in those signature licks? Sometimes, like MM, he did what was expected. Ever heard MM's fretless work?

"...incredible pieces of music that could be performed equally well in all sorts of context".

What exactly does that mean?

I'll argue this one till the day I die - if you already Jaco's self titled album, cool - we agree to disagree. If not, buy it, listen to it, then tell me Marcus Miler is a greater bass player and musician.
Trust me, I was all "Jaco, who? So what?" before i really listened to this album.

I guess I came from the other direction. I heard his solo album within a couple of years of it's release. I've heard a lot of bassists and composers since. I won't try to tell you anyone is greater than Jaco, that's pointless. OTOH I can see merit in other musicians that you probably can't. Jaco was Jaco, warts and all. To others he was God.

As for Stuart Hamm... dont even go there!
The guy is a bass monster, that's grrrreat.

His two hand tapping solos are complete sh1te. sure its technical and really dificult.. but no harder than playing a piano!!!! And a piano sounds a zillion times better!!!

I've listened to enough of him to know that while I can respect the effort, I just don't like his style. Kind of like you and Marcus. Guess we agree on Stu.

I think the key here is that if a song is good it will transcend genre and context easily. Obviously there are many exceptions to every rule, but in general, i believe this is true.

I really can't agree with that. If that really was the mark of a good song, I guess an elevator would be a good place to test that theory. Personally I think a good song just has to sound good in the idiom it was written for, period. It doesn't have to translate to any other style.

 

[Howard K]

I really can't agree with that. If that really was the mark of a good song, I guess an elevator would be a good place to test that theory. Personally I think a good song just has to sound good in the idiom it was written for, period. It doesn't have to translate to any other style.

All good points, especially this one!!! - I'll remember that.

Don't get me wrong, I listen to Marcus Miller and it does blow me away - and I kinda dig it, but after a track or two I get bored - it just doesnt drag me in like other artists, and I think this is because I dont hear much variation - just (very well performed) slapetty-slap-slap.

I guess I just find it too 'bass centric' if that makes sense. It really sounds to me as though he's written everything around his (very cool) bass lines.

I do kinda dig the version of So What from the Ozell tapes live album tho.

"...incredible pieces of music that could be performed equally well in all sorts of context".

What I meant by this is that Jaco's music - of what I've heard (Jaco, Word of Mouth and some WR) is done in a 70's fusion style, but I believe it would translate well to different styles. I really need to be more specific here but I'm not going to be right now, I'd have to go away and think about it for a while to come up with some really good examples : rolleyes:

I think what I've heard of Jaco is more interesting that what I've heard of Marcus Miller, to-date.

However, on reflection, maybe I just get too distracted by the bass in Millers music to imagine it elsewhere? I dunno...

I shall purchase some of Millers' earlier studio work on your recommendation sometime. Which of Millers albums would you recommend? ...and you Wendy, which is your favourite?

I'm not especially up for hearing more 'bass monster' stuff really - cool as it is, it doesnt hold my attention long enough. Gimme his best 'works of art', his best studio albums.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Howard K


All good points, especially this one!!! - I'll remember that.

Don't get me wrong, I listen to Marcus Miller and it does blow me away - and I kinda dig it, but after a track or two I get bored - it just doesnt drag me in like other artists, and I think this is because I dont hear much variation - just (very well performed) slapetty-slap-slap.

Completely understandable.

I guess I just find it too 'bass centric' if that makes sense. It really sounds to me as though he's written everything around his (very cool) bass lines.

I do kinda dig the version of So What from the Ozell tapes live album tho.

At the show, while the focus is definitely on him, the rest of his band, especially Patches Stewart, Poogie Bell and Dean Brown (Dean is a very "visual" guy) are stellar. People come to his shows and buy his solo projects because of their bass focus.

What I meant by this is that Jaco's music - of what I've heard (Jaco, Word of Mouth and some WR) is done in a 70's fusion style, but I believe it would translate well to different styles. I really need to be more specific here but I'm not going to be right now, I'd have to go away and think about it for a while to come up with some really good examples : rolleyes:

I've heard several Muzak verions of Level 42

I think what I've heard of Jaco is more interesting that what I've heard of Marcus Miller, to-date.

However, on reflection, maybe I just get too distracted by the bass in Millers music to imagine it elsewhere? I dunno...

I shall purchase some of Millers' earlier studio work on your recommendation sometime. Which of Millers albums would you recommend? ...and you Wendy, which is your favourite?

I'm not especially up for hearing more 'bass monster' stuff really - cool as it is, it doesnt hold my attention long enough. Gimme his best 'works of art', his best studio albums.

I've gotten to the point where when I see another "bass monster" release, I run in the other direction. Marcus, OTOH IMO can and does play the support role very well. OTOOH I recall Jaco's WR years as being extremely bass-centric.

If you want to hear MM in more off a support setting, with songs he's written and/or produced, check out David Sanborn, Luther Vandross, Dave Gruisin, Grover Washington, Lonnie Liston Smith, Steely Dan, Chaka Khan, Bob James, Earl Klugh and the stuff he did with Miles isn't bad either. He actually is a very well-rounded player and I don't think it should come as any surprise that his solo projects are more bass-centric. Check allmusic.com for a discography

 

[Howard K]

I've gotten to the point where when I see another "bass monster" release, I run in the other direction.

Well I know precisely what you mean. Often I walk into a record store and think "man, i wanna hear some tearin bass playing", so I buy some monster bass album and regret it immediately after listening to it.
I dont regret buying Marcus Millers album - otherwise i wouldnt be prepared to buy more. It's just not my favourite of late.

Last two bass player as band leader albums I bought fairly recently are Christian McBride's latest and lonnie plaxico 'melange'. Both of which are great, imo.

Luther Vandross - hmm that sounds interesting, cheers, will see what i can find...

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by Coypu


Examples of people who stayed true to themselves :

Cynic
Ron Jarzombek (Spastic Ink, Watchtower, SSOTC ...)
Scheonberg
Glenn Gould

Examples of people who didn't :

Metallica
Britney Spears
Buddah of bass, or whatever his name is.
Stu Hamm
Steve Vai

I added a good variation of people there that all have at some point compromised their musical integrity and as you can see the list above contains much higher quality music. If you can find a band or person who sold his soul but still creates amazing music then go ahead.

what are you talking about? how are you qualified to say whether bill dickens sold out or not, when you don't even know his name?

get over yourself.

 

[Coypu]

Originally posted by john turner
what are you talking about? how are you qualified to say whether bill dickens sold out or not, when you don't even know his name?

get over yourself.

All you need is to watch one of his videos where he in a slow and soft song all of a sudden start to play a completely percussive super fast slap pop thingy that where completely out of place for the sole purpose of showing off. That was enough to turn me off, maybe you have a different view but that's your loss.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally posted by Coypu


All you need is to watch one of his videos where he in a slow and soft song all of a sudden start to play a completely percussive super fast slap pop thingy that where completely out of place for the sole purpose of showing off. That was enough to turn me off, maybe you have a different view but that's your loss.

That has absolutely nothing to do with selling out. You might not like that aesthetic choice, but it's absolutely irrelevant to selling out or not selling out.

 

[Coypu]

Originally posted by Richard Lindsey
That has absolutely nothing to do with selling out. You might not like that aesthetic choice, but it's absolutely irrelevant to selling out or not selling out.

It never was about money, it was about creating music to satisfy your own ideas vs. trying to satisfy others.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally posted by Coypu


It never was about money, it was about creating music to satisfy your own ideas vs. trying to satisfy others.

But see, the point was that *you don't know why Dickens played what he played, so you don't have any business judging his intentions*. So you didn't like what he played--so what? That doesn't qualify you to know whether he's "pure" or not. (If that even matters.) For instance, I might listen to Spastic Ink and think it's unmitigated trash--I'm not saying it is, 'cause I haven't heard it and so wouldn't make that assumption, this is an example--but that wouldn't give me the right to say that the musicians aren't making the best music they can with all the sincerity they can muster. What matters to me as a musician and a listener is, simply, the music. The path by which it was produced is of very little interest compared to what was produced. What works, works.

And you know what? This whole business of making music just isn't as simplistic as you're trying to make it. Humans are complex animals. If you think you can make artistic integrity an either-or thing--that is, either someone is "pure" or they aren't--then you could benefit from opening your mind a lot wider. Life is messy, and as part of life, art is messy too. The fact is, a strong and true aesthetic impulse can coexist with greed, or salesmanship, or--God forbid--mass popularity. Just like great guitar playing can coexist with "improper" technique.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by Coypu


All you need is to watch one of his videos where he in a slow and soft song all of a sudden start to play a completely percussive super fast slap pop thingy that where completely out of place for the sole purpose of showing off.

uh, hello? that's what those videos are for.

That was enough to turn me off, maybe you have a different view but that's your loss.

no, it's your loss. he's a personal friend of mine for the past 5 or 6 years, and a fabulous player. he's been on tour with artists as diverse as al dimeola and barry manilow. just because sean malone doesn't mention him on his web page doesn't mean he's not worth listening to.

me thinks you need to free your mind a bit. i am not at all surprised that you have this fetish for glenn gould and yet you seem unable to find any other classical composer/performer who you like. after all, sean malone didn't inform you of any others from his website, did he?

 

[Coypu]

Originally posted by Richard Lindsey
But see, the point was that *you don't know why Dickens played what he played, so you don't have any business judging his intentions*. So you didn't like what he played--so what? That doesn't qualify you to know whether he's "pure" or not. (If that even matters.) For instance, I might listen to Spastic Ink and think it's unmitigated trash--I'm not saying it is, 'cause I haven't heard it and so wouldn't make that assumption, this is an example--but that wouldn't give me the right to say that the musicians aren't making the best music they can with all the sincerity they can muster. What matters to me as a musician and a listener is, simply, the music. The path by which it was produced is of very little interest compared to what was produced. What works, works.

And you know what? This whole business of making music just isn't as simplistic as you're trying to make it. Humans are complex animals. If you think you can make artistic integrity an either-or thing--that is, either someone is "pure" or they aren't--then you could benefit from opening your mind a lot wider. Life is messy, and as part of life, art is messy too. The fact is, a strong and true aesthetic impulse can coexist with greed, or salesmanship, or--God forbid--mass popularity. Just like great guitar playing can coexist with "improper" technique.

Don't get my wrong, I don't disprect Bill Dickens at all. In fact I have alot respect for the incredible skill he has and the amount of work it must have taken to become that good. I don't say the people listen to Britney spears are idiots. What I'm trying to get across is my view and why I think a certain way. I don't expect people to all of a sudden throw down their old beleivs and worship every word that I say. All I'm asking is that people take some time and give certain issues some thought, that they actually take some time and check out some of the stuff that I thikn highly of. I always listen to peoples opinions and check out the bands they like if the situation requires it. You should do the same and don't knock what I'm saying until you have heard the bands and artists that I'm refering too. Maybe I'm right, maybe not but you won't know until you try.

 

[Coypu]

Originally posted by john turner
uh, hello? that's what those videos are for.



no, it's your loss. he's a personal friend of mine for the past 5 or 6 years, and a fabulous player. he's been on tour with artists as diverse as al dimeola and barry manilow. just because sean malone doesn't mention him on his web page doesn't mean he's not worth listening to.

me thinks you need to free your mind a bit. i am not at all surprised that you have this fetish for glenn gould and yet you seem unable to find any other classical composer/performer who you like. after all, sean malone didn't inform you of any others from his website, did he?

As I said in the previous post I have great respect for Bill Dickens but I'm still allowed to have my own taste.

I bet you have no idea that the music I listen to that is Sean Malone related is a very small percentage of what I listen to. And I do listen to other classical composers and performers other than Gould, I just like some of goulds stuff the best.

Now try and keep the discussion on a higher level than you did with this post which was very childish. You have completely no idea of what music I enjoy and from where I get my influences so try to restrain yourself from pointless attacks on that subject.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by Coypu


As I said in the previous post I have great respect for Bill Dickens but I'm still allowed to have my own taste.

I bet you have no idea that the music I listen to that is Sean Malone related is a very small percentage of what I listen to. And I do listen to other classical composers and performers other than Gould, I just like some of goulds stuff the best.

Now try and keep the discussion on a higher level than you did with this post which was very childish. You have completely no idea of what music I enjoy and from where I get my influences so try to restrain yourself from pointless attacks on that subject.

#1, taste is not "he's a sellout", taste is "i don't like what he plays". calling someone a sellout or saying that they don't play what is true to them is hugely pretentious, especially when you don't even know their name, as you didn't with bill dickens.

#2, by your own admission you don't like the accepted masters/progenitors in 4 or 5 of the most important and relevant musical styles in western culture, so i find your claim to like "many other composers and performers" specious at best. i wonder if you would even know who gould was if you didn't hear from it through sean malone.

#3, i challenge you to point out anything childish in what i've said. on the other hand, your claim of people "selling out" is the musical mantra of the infantile fanboy, and frankly i'm surprised you made it, considering the nature of your other arguments.

 

[jerry]

I've heard the word "Sellout' a million times in my life, almost every person who used that word dosen't gig....weird

 

[Coypu]

Originally posted by john turner


#1, taste is not "he's a sellout", taste is "i don't like what he plays". calling someone a sellout or saying that they don't play what is true to them is hugely pretentious, especially when you don't even know their name, as you didn't with bill dickens.

#2, by your own admission you don't like the accepted masters/progenitors in 4 or 5 of the most important and relevant musical styles in western culture, so i find your claim to like "many other composers and performers" specious at best. i wonder if you would even know who gould was if you didn't hear from it through sean malone.

#3, i challenge you to point out anything childish in what i've said. on the other hand, your claim of people "selling out" is the musical mantra of the infantile fanboy, and frankly i'm surprised you made it, considering the nature of your other arguments.

# So Bill Dickens never shows off right?

# And who would thoose accepted masters be? The Beatles? You know that there is more music than what the mainstream feeds you. Its often the music that goes beyond what most people think is ok, that are the true masters. I found out about Gould through sean malone but I discovered and loved his music all by myself, I don't like everything Sean likes for example. I live in sweden, my best resource to find music is the internet so why not go to the most logical places to look? And if you look at my current playlist you will find that the amount of sean related music is below 1%...
ownage

# "after all, sean malone didn't inform you of any others from his website, did he?" = immature comment. I'll gladly listen to any real arguments about the real subject but it seems like you would be more interesting in a flame war... Well, its your choice, civil debate or flame war...

ps. A good album you should check it out is "The music or the money" by Mats & Morgan.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by jerry
I've heard the word "Sellout' a million times in my life, almost every person who used that word dosen't gig....weird

word.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by Coypu


# So Bill Dickens never shows off right?

the vast majority of the individuals who come to hear bill dickens play expect certain things from him. as an entertainer he provides the expected. however, he also has a touring gig with barry manilow. i don't know if you know who that is or not, but suffice it to say that a) barry manilow can hire whoever he wants and b) there's no room in that gig for showboating at all.

every player shows off sometimes, including sean malone. i saw cynic open for smashing pumkins at the masquerade in '92 (i think) and he had some moments where he was showboating. it was great. there's an element to "showing off" in every performer's performance. that ego has to be there to make the performance honest.

again, "selling out" is not "showing off". maybe this is a language thing? i mean, maybe i'm not understanding your point. it's certainly possible.

# And who would thoose accepted masters be? The Beatles? You know that there is more music than what the mainstream feeds you. Its often the music that goes beyond what most people think is ok, that are the true masters. I found out about Gould through sean malone but I discovered and loved his music all by myself, I don't like everything Sean likes for example. I live in sweden, my best resource to find music is the internet so why not go to the most logical places to look? And if you look at my current playlist you will find that the amount of sean related music is below 1%...
ownage

mozart is considered the originator of many styles of classical music, some would say the progenitor of the Classical era. miles davis is the founder of fusion, along with one of the seminal, defining composers of the bop/post bop era. segovia is the progenitor of classical guitar. the beatles are the defining group of pop music. stevie wonder is considered by many the progenitor of a style of r&b/pop. these guys weren't just good at it, they _made_ the stuff.

hey, i think it's awesome that you were exposed to gould via malone. furthermore, i think it's great that you try to have an expanded playlist - in fact, i'm trying to advocate it.

however, you seem to carry a closed mind hand in hand with that. how much miles davis have you listened to? how much mozart? how much segovia? these are individuals who you said you like none of their work. is that a fair assumption to make by you considering the fact that you probably have not listened to that much of their work?

like i said, you're just hurting yourself with that attitude. you even said it yourself - you can only get exposed to certain music via the internet. well, this here is the internet let yourself be exposed.

# "after all, sean malone didn't inform you of any others from his website, did he?" = immature comment. I'll gladly listen to any real arguments about the real subject but it seems like you would be more interesting in a flame war... Well, its your choice, civil debate or flame war...

ps. A good album you should check it out is "The music or the money" by Mats & Morgan.

oh, please. how is that comment immature? - you said it yourself, you heard about glenn gould from sean malone. it was obvious - you're critiquing individuals who are just as relevant and skilled as gould is/was and yet you are heavily into gould. where's the flame?

i have a suggestion, how about you try to open your mind to some of the suggestions being presented here in this thread. that's not a flame, that's an honest suggestion.

here's an example. i got exposed to a lot of good music that i wouldn't have otherwise listened to last summer when i went to chicago to get my band's first cd mixed. the guy we used, neil kernon, has mixed and produced a lot of very different bands in his 30 year long career, and right now he's really into the black and death metal scene, along with a bunch of other stuff - he produced one of the more recent cannibal corpse albums. i'm not really into this style too much - i was exposed to venom and death and other early bands of the genre when they first came out in the mid 80's and i thought they sucked. still, though, i listened to the stuff that neil had and a lot of it was pretty inspirational, even though it was a lot different than what my band does.

i guess my point is that putting performers down with non-descript terms like "selling out" is only hurting yourself.

p.s. thanks for the album suggestion . for you, i'd say give either anglagaard or anekdoten a listen. they're both from sweden and they both rock. you might like them.

 

[ConU]

Originally posted by jerry
I've heard the word "Sellout' a million times in my life, almost every person who used that word dosen't gig....weird

Let's call a spade a spade.

 

[Coypu]

the vast majority of the individuals who come to hear bill dickens play expect certain things from him. as an entertainer he provides the expected. however, he also has a touring gig with barry manilow. i don't know if you know who that is or not, but suffice it to say that a) barry manilow can hire whoever he wants and b) there's no room in that gig for showboating at all.

every player shows off sometimes, including sean malone. i saw cynic open for smashing pumkins at the masquerade in '92 (i think) and he had some moments where he was showboating. it was great. there's an element to "showing off" in every performer's performance. that ego has to be there to make the performance honest.

again, "selling out" is not "showing off". maybe this is a language thing? i mean, maybe i'm not understanding your point. it's certainly possible.

I never personally used the word selling out (unless by mistake) you guys brought it in. What I'm talking about is compromising the musical integrity by doing something to please others. Like adding a slapfest in a slow ballad for no other reason than showing off. Sure it might be entertaining but the song itself suffers from this. I think the best music is created by thoose who create music that is honest to themselves and that tries to create something above the usual. Very artist are like this and I find that sad since its really the only way to do it.

mozart is considered the originator of many styles of classical music, some would say the progenitor of the Classical era. miles davis is the founder of fusion, along with one of the seminal, defining composers of the bop/post bop era. segovia is the progenitor of classical guitar. the beatles are the defining group of pop music. stevie wonder is considered by many the progenitor of a style of r&b/pop. these guys weren't just good at it, they _made_ the stuff.

Sure Mozart was important but his music is pretty much Classical light, to say that he is the greatest classical composer of all time is rediculous. Miles Davis is defiantely one of thoose people who followed their own vision with a pure heart, unfortunately did he also create pleanty of mediocre stuff but his best stuff is amazing. I don't like segovia or hardly any classical guitarmusic that I have heard, its not bad but I'd rather listen to piano music since it has greater abilites as an individual instrument. I don't see a problem in not liking beatleas, sure they where important in pop but britney spears and backstreet boys where important too and I group them in the same group as the beatles. I think we should expect a little more from music than that. I have nothing against stevie wonder but its just not my stuff, maybe if I grew up at that time period but in todays musical world his stuff doesn't strike me as that amazing.

hey, i think it's awesome that you were exposed to gould via malone. furthermore, i think it's great that you try to have an expanded playlist - in fact, i'm trying to advocate it.

however, you seem to carry a closed mind hand in hand with that. how much miles davis have you listened to? how much mozart? how much segovia? these are individuals who you said you like none of their work. is that a fair assumption to make by you considering the fact that you probably have not listened to that much of their work?

like i said, you're just hurting yourself with that attitude. you even said it yourself - you can only get exposed to certain music via the internet. well, this here is the internet let yourself be exposed.

Well I have definately not heard all of Miles Davis work, I have checked out the albums recomended by some jazz fans which they said where essential, I have listened to them and I think that I have a fair view of how his best stuff is.

I have heard plenty of Mozart, I think we all have..

I haven't heard alot of Segovia, I downloaded a bunch of songs when I was discussion a guitar topic once and it just didn't move me. But feel free to recomend some songs if you like. I'll check them out with an open mind.

oh, please. how is that comment immature? - you said it yourself, you heard about glenn gould from sean malone. it was obvious - you're critiquing individuals who are just as relevant and skilled as gould is/was and yet you are heavily into gould. where's the flame?

They way you put it was that I get all my music from Sean Malone just because he likes it, like I'm a blind fan following all he says. Which is complete bull****, I think you even called me "fanboy". You came off pretty bad in that post anyway, maybe you didn't mean to but that is how it looked.

i have a suggestion, how about you try to open your mind to some of the suggestions being presented here in this thread. that's not a flame, that's an honest suggestion.

here's an example. i got exposed to a lot of good music that i wouldn't have otherwise listened to last summer when i went to chicago to get my band's first cd mixed. the guy we used, neil kernon, has mixed and produced a lot of very different bands in his 30 year long career, and right now he's really into the black and death metal scene, along with a bunch of other stuff - he produced one of the more recent cannibal corpse albums. i'm not really into this style too much - i was exposed to venom and death and other early bands of the genre when they first came out in the mid 80's and i thought they sucked. still, though, i listened to the stuff that neil had and a lot of it was pretty inspirational, even though it was a lot different than what my band does.

i guess my point is that putting performers down with non-descript terms like "selling out" is only hurting yourself.

p.s. thanks for the album suggestion . for you, i'd say give either anglagaard or anekdoten a listen. they're both from sweden and they both rock. you might like them. [/B]

You don't need to tell me to broaden my views, I probably have among the most broadest taste in music in this forum. I do however only settle for the best, I have tried to get hold of the best stuff out there and I have grown to become pretty picky when it comes to music. I can help you get into death metal if you like though, its the genre I listen to the most and I know plenty of excellent bands.

I'm putting down music that isn't as amazing as people make it out to be. I think that most accepted bands out there and most stuff on the radio is mediocre material. I think we should search further to find the real but often obscure geniouses that are out there. Why not find the stuff that pushes the boundaries? Why settle for the mediocre?