Roasted maple necks. Tuning stability?

[Number179]

My basses are a lot more stable tuning wise than your description. I suspect I'm not alone in this. What kind of basses do you have that they go half a step sharp between gigs, or have to be tuned after a set of music?

Yea, dude. I have many basses, I think I'm over 30. None are roasted anything - although I am "roasted-curious" lately. I can't think of one of them that I ever pull off the wall or out of the case and it is consistently out of tune. Maybe after a year of not playing; but I play mine all at least monthly.

I also have no problem clicking on the tuner and tuning up if needed; but I guess I might feel differently about the annoyance of tuning if I had to do it every 3 hours!

(also, I'm in NE FL, surrounded by water, humidity, and heat with a twist of cold)

 

[Gervais Cote]

I have two with roasted necks, they are so stable, they never move after their initial setup up when they landed to me.

Same here with 7 roasted maple necks.

A few of them took 12 to 18 months to stabilize but all of them don’t need any truss rod adjustment after that period of time, unless I change the strings for higher or lower tension.

My necks are from Warmoth, Fender MIM and Chinese Fender copies. All same stability.

 

[BassicJazzy]

My 35 year old J Bass Plus maple neck is extremely stable, almost never goes out of tune with Pressurewounds. My Sire P5R neck is also very stable, with LTFs, as is the neck on my Ibanez SR1350B with stabilizing rods and 5 ply construction including purple heart, and black tapes. On the other hand, my SR370EF fretless with chrome flats needs re-tuning almost every time I play it. I would attribute that to a very thin neck, high tension strings, and lightweight construction without reinforcement.

What's important is "do they stay in tune while you play them?" No problems there.

 

[bucephylus]

Two aspects to this question: cosmetic and engineering / structural / chemical.

I will not comment on the cosmetic questions. You all can debate that one. Best of luck.

Few bass players are trained in the scientific aspects of materials. Wood, in particular, is a VERY complex natural composite material; meaning that the microstructure is VERY complicated. Materials derive their properties as a consequence of their microstructure.

ALL wooden stock receives some level of thermal treatment. This is done for dimensional stability. Examples where this is poorly done are readily observed in the 2x4 bins at your local Home Depot.

One aspect of wood structure which affects our experience with neck stability is the level of hygroscopic character, which determines the tendency of the wood to absorb or release moisture. This character is determined by the concentration of -OH chemical groups in the lignin and cellulosic parts of the structure. More -OH means more water uptake and release with humidity swings.

The concentration of -OH groups falls off as wood naturally ages. Older pieces of wood (vintage bass guitar necks) are more impervious to moisture uptake and release with humidity swings. Older wood is more hydrophobic, meaning absorbs less moisture.

Heat treating can be used to reduce the concentration of -OH groups to produce necks, which maintain better tuning with seasonal humidity swings.

Another aspect of heat treatment of wood is the effect on the stiffness of the wood. This one is a bit more tricky than reducing -OH groups; because thermal treatments have been shown to first increase stiffness, but then reduce stiffness with excessive thermal treatment. Processes to control mechanical properties have long been used, and have traditionally been referred to as wood tempering. Such processes need to be carefully controlled, because a little can be great, but too much can be harmful. The important point is that there is no single wood treatment; and comments on the various processes as a singular topic are uninformed. Tempering can be good, or it can be bad, depending on the process controls. The result is very much a controls issue / question.

I know; TL;DR.

 

[el murdoque]

I'd wager that the quality of the wood and the process of building the neck (single piece or laminate, carbon rods) factor in more than the process of roasting the wood - a well made non roasted neck will always be better at holding a tune than a badly made roasted one.

 

[mpdd]

top. secret, when you roast a body block sometimes the wood changes and it can get cracked during the cnc process, that's why although I was drawn to the more mellow/warmer tone of the bodies I was warned by somebody I highly respect about using them for building

as far as the necks go I have had a "baked" maple fretboard on a gibson bass, but it didn't strike me as any different from any other wood that could have been on there

 

[michael_t]

So I'm wondering if roasted maple with stiffening rods is more likely to hold tune more like my wenge neck or the other maples?

As far as I'm concerned tuning stability is more about strings than the neck. I wouldn't necessarily deny the fact a stiffer neck might help with tuning stability to a certain degree, but the world's stiffest neck won't keep the metal in strings from reacting to the environment whether heat or humidity.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I won't be looking for basses with roasted maple necks solely on the basis of tuning stability.

 

[Muttleybass]

My basses are a lot more stable tuning wise than your description. I suspect I'm not alone in this. What kind of basses do you have that they go half a step sharp between gigs, or have to be tuned after a set of music?

Okay, maybe not a full half step... and over the course of a couple of days or more on the bass I'm not using. If I'm on my way to a gig in winter, Plus, if they go in a gig bag, yada yada... I just didn't want to have to write a novel when that wasn't the point. And yes, I check my tuning between sets, mostly because there's a few songs that are slap, picked, and played hard.

My point is, tuning is a thing. Metal strings expand and contract. I stand by the statement that if you need to adjust your neck every couple of days, you have bigger problems.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

I've owned a lot of basses. I have not noticed any correlation between neck design and stability. Set neck, neck through, bolt-on, maple, mahogany, wenge, ebony, rosewood, pau ferro, roasted, not roasted, one piece, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 piece, 20 piece. Basses have tuners and truss rods (exc. Vigier) for a reason. I simply have accepted the reality that checking relief and tuning prior to a gig is a necessity for me. YMMV.

BBB

 

[Daniel B5]

the world's stiffest neck won't keep the metal in strings from reacting to the environment whether heat or humidity.

How would metal strings be affected by humidity, other than potentially corroding?

 

[michael_t]

How would metal strings be affected by humidity, other than potentially corroding?

Good question... I guess humidity changes would affect wood more than metal, and temperature fluctuations would affect metal more. Now, when metal in strings is corroded due to high humidity, that could affect tuning stability.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

It will be more stable, but it's only one factor in tuning stability. If you're getting Warmoth, I'd go with roasted maple and carbon rods.

 

[micguy]

I stand by the statement that if you need to adjust your neck every couple of days, you have bigger problems.

We agree there completely.

 

[micguy]

How would metal strings be affected by humidity, other than potentially corroding?

Metal strings don't get affected by humidity, but necks do move with it some - roasted necks far less.

Steel strings expand more with temperature than wood, but wood does expand some, which actually makes it better than graphite (which expands very little) for tuning stability - if the neck and the strings grow together, that's ideal in terms of tuning. A neck made from the same steel as the core wire in your strings would be great at tuning stability, but neck dive....yousah. There are other materials that closely match steel, but they are things like brass or copper (even heavier than steel)....

Kramer's aluminum necks were interesting because aluminum expands more than steel - when they drifted with temperature, it wasn't any worse than a wood neck, but they went the other way. When I owned one of those, the real issue was that playing a cold neck was not a fun experience for your fretting hand. So...in the winter, I always brought the bass into the bar first (I played bar gigs in those days). If the bar owner said "don't bring your gear in yet", it was already in, and they'd say "OK, that can stay".

 

[micguy]

It will be more stable, but it's only one factor in tuning stability. If you're getting Warmoth, I'd go with roasted maple and carbon rods.

I've done precisely that... a couple dozen times. Great necks. They really are great necks.

 

[J Wilson]

Roasted maple necks.

What can brown do for you?

Personally, I hate the way they look, and am not at all convinced it makes a big difference. I just think a FSO object with a gorgeous paint job and a BROWN neck sticking out of it is just pitiful.

I wonder at what point after you rout the insides of a neck for a truss rod AND metal or carbon fibre rods have you taken out too much wood at the expense of stability.

 

[SunByrne]

Or as we say in South Florida, "it ain't the heat, it's the stupidity"

Same in Houston. Humidity here ranges from "damp" to "you have got to be effin' kidding me." When we retire we are moving somewhere less humid, but of course that rules out basically nowhere.

Anyway, even in an air conditioned home, I can always tell when the humidity has changed because basses need a small tuning tweak. Consistent with what's been said, laminate necks seem to be the most resistant, but having the fretboard material match the neck material also helps. I have two basses that have roasted maple for both fretboard and neck material, and they are very stable.

 

[micguy]

Roasted maple necks.

What can brown do for you?

Personally, I hate the way they look, and am not at all convinced it makes a big difference. I just think a FSO object with a gorgeous paint job and a BROWN neck sticking out of it is just pitiful.

I wonder at what point after you rout the insides of a neck for a truss rod AND metal or carbon fibre rods have you taken out too much wood at the expense of stability.

Reinforcement rods, whether steel or graphite, ADD to the stability of a neck.

 

[Keither]

Reinforcement rods, whether steel or graphite, ADD to the stability of a neck.

I think the reinforcement rods are the most significant difference between the necks I have to compare. Generally I agree with the FSOs looking strange with a roasted neck.
However in this case I'm doing a small 2x2 headstock on roasted maple (sometime next week).
Also no pick guard so the fender look is interrupted.
The neck from Warmoth arrived and as I hoped matches well with the shellac on the maple/ash body.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Roasted maple necks.

What can brown do for you?

Personally, I hate the way they look, and am not at all convinced it makes a big difference. I just think a FSO object with a gorgeous paint job and a BROWN neck sticking out of it is just pitiful.

I wonder at what point after you rout the insides of a neck for a truss rod AND metal or carbon fibre rods have you taken out too much wood at the expense of stability.

I think a lot depends on the design of the neck itself. On a P-bass type neck, built somewhat stocky, even with a C shape, roasted maple itself seems to be enough to give you the stability you want. On a lengthy thin Ibanez SR neck, reinforcing rods seem like an essential ingredient. I get no tuning deviations on either my Sire P5R or Sadowsky MetroExpress (both roasted maple, no rods) when they sit in their case for a week or so. I also get no instability on my Ibanez SR1350B Premium with titanium reinforcing rods, same timeframe. My SR370EF, no rods, needs retuning almost event time I take it out of its case.

Another point is "how old is the wood." My '90 Fender Jazz Plus has 2 piece maple neck, maple board, no reinforcing rods. It will hold tuning indefinitely, because the woods have aged.