Roger Waters has to be stupid

[BAG]

In regards to the breakup I like the statement made by Nick Mason in his book. If I remember correctly he said "Roger was trying to take more control. He said at one stage "Nobody in this band is irreplaceable"..... and he was right".

 

[Sunset Shalom]

Yes, I have actually listened to them. I wouldn't be spouting opinions if I hadn't.
IMHO, they sound like a Pink Floyd tribute band trying to make new songs in the style of Pink Floyd.

I think that's a bit silly considering how diverse all their early albums are. They have never really had a single sound, minus maybe the Rogers heavy stuff like the wall and final cut. They just continued to evolve with their later stuff.

If you listen to live concerts from their later post waters years they still play their old stuff spot on, even better even in some cases. They don't really have to "try" and sound like Pink Floyd because they are pink floyd

 

[BAG]

Here is another killer live tune with Guy Pratt:



Guy isn't just a great bassist he has some great stage presence as well, that's easily my favorite version of Money by far, they are just on fire.

It's one of my favorite versions too with some great middle breaks..... except for one thing...... the extra note where he hammers on from the open E to the F#. It was never there in any version except with Guy playing on that tour. It's only a very little thing but to me it makes me wince a little every time I hear it. It works fine once the drums kick in but for the intro, it's really noticable to me. Even Guy admits in his book that he had no idea that he wasn't playing it as per the original until someone pointed it out to him.

 

[tbz]

You are the one buying primarily Waters's publicity poopie, to basically washing his own hands on how the rest of the Pink Floyd handled "firing" Syd, basically just not telling him about forthcoming gigs until he realized he must have been kicked by the rest of the band he formed, and who's songs they were still gigging with (Gilmour remember it being Waters who said "Let's not bother picking Syd up", the first time that happened), doing a crappy job at "helping" him with his solo album (oddly enough almost every track not produced on that album with Water involved were perfect, some first takes among them too), and basically being eager to spread the rumor at every chance he got that Syd was raving mad.

"A handful of gigs were booked for January 1968, commencing with a show at Birmingham’s Aston University. ‘Sometimes Syd sang a bit, sometimes he didn’t,’ recalled Gilmour. ‘My brief was also to play the rhythm parts and let Syd play what he wanted.’ Tim Renwick, then playing in a band called Wages of Sin, bumped into Gilmour on Denmark Street. ‘He started telling me how odd it was standing in for Syd and how unpredictable Syd was on stage. Some nights Syd tended not to play anything. He was out of his crust.’ ‘I saw two of the gigs they did as a five-piece,’ says Emo, who was then enjoying another rare spell of gainful employment as a Floyd roadie (on £15 a week). ‘At the beginning Dave just played what was necessary. He’d learned the parts and just copied what Syd used to do. But you could tell Syd didn’t understand what was happening. "


Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 111). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

And now you most likely think something the lines of:

Ah, but he did take drugs and he was likely suffering from schizophrenia, need say no more, he was completely off to the loony bin, but myself both having multiple drug experiences and being diagnosed with schizophrenia, I know for a fact that it is not necessarily the same as not being present, able to reason or producing anything useful.

That's a very interesting conversation you've just had with yourself.

But no, the book cited above has several more examples. So I don't need to suppose anything. It's all in print, there and in other places.

"‘Vegetable Man’ was hardly any brighter, with a desperate Syd declaring, ‘I’ve been looking all over the place for a place for me’ against a tuneless oompah rhythm. ‘He was singing about himself. It was an extraordinary document of serious mental disturbance,’ says Peter Jenner. ‘A song of amazing mad grandeur,’ counters a more sympathetic Andrew King. Dr Sam Hutt dropped in while the band was recording the track. Unfortunately, he was tripping: ‘All I can remember thinking was: Uh-oh, here come the demons!’"

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 93). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

Weird how you singled that out as a moment of genius. I guess you could call it proto punk, the same way you could call any poorly recorded, one chord song proto punk.

I don't see any lyric similarities between that, and any form of punk though. Especially not the initial wave of punk. Those lyrics tended to be quite topical.

 

[Sunset Shalom]

It's one of my favorite versions too with some great middle breaks..... except for one thing...... the extra note where he hammers on from the open E to the F#. It was never there in any version except with Guy playing on that tour. It's only a very little thing but to me it makes me wince a little every time I hear it. Even Guy admits in his book that he had no idea that he wasn't playing it as per the original until someone pointed it out to him.

Yeah it's definitely not perfect, but then again even their "golden years" shows weren't really perfect either usually. I kind of have a love/hate relationship with the sax player I love his work on some stuff but I also really love their original sax player Dick Parry, he does a great job on Pulse and some of gilmours solo stuff as well as all the classic floyd sax drool

 

[Tim Skaggs]

This has been an interesting thread to read, and significantly informative about two members of the British rock band Pink Floyd. I've enjoyed their collaborative effort and the solo work of one.

Net worth of each varies wildly depending on where and when you look, but that could be the result of investing and little to nothing about success at their chosen vocation. Both are wealthy beyond my wildest dreams & I'd trade my net worth with either.

Their creativity varies significantly depending on how it's measured, but both seem to be quite creative in their own way. Which of the two is most creative seems to be subjective and more dependent on the observer than the subjects.

Both have already lived a longer than the average rock star, indicating perhaps both led a cleaner lifestyle than expected of the average rock star, although both are around the same age as Keith Richards, so there's no conclusion there.....

One seems to be more adept at playing stringed instruments, but the other may be better at stringing together thoughts and phrases in the English language.

Neither are particularly good at tolerating the other, but one of them was definitely more compatible with their former band members.

Creativity definitely has side effects, and the symptoms of some illnesses / conditions enhances creativity. They both seem to have both.

Now what was the question? One was stupid for not playing with the other? I'm not sure if the discussion so far supports that conclusion any more in one way than it does the other, but that may say more about my observations that it reveals about the individuals being discussed....

 

[NoiseNinja]

"A handful of gigs were booked for January 1968, commencing with a show at Birmingham’s Aston University. ‘Sometimes Syd sang a bit, sometimes he didn’t,’ recalled Gilmour. ‘My brief was also to play the rhythm parts and let Syd play what he wanted.’ Tim Renwick, then playing in a band called Wages of Sin, bumped into Gilmour on Denmark Street. ‘He started telling me how odd it was standing in for Syd and how unpredictable Syd was on stage. Some nights Syd tended not to play anything. He was out of his crust.’ ‘I saw two of the gigs they did as a five-piece,’ says Emo, who was then enjoying another rare spell of gainful employment as a Floyd roadie (on £15 a week). ‘At the beginning Dave just played what was necessary. He’d learned the parts and just copied what Syd used to do. But you could tell Syd didn’t understand what was happening. "


Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 111). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.





That's a very interesting conversation you've just had with yourself.

But no, the book cited above has several more examples. So I don't need to suppose anything. It's all in print, there and in other places.

"‘Vegetable Man’ was hardly any brighter, with a desperate Syd declaring, ‘I’ve been looking all over the place for a place for me’ against a tuneless oompah rhythm. ‘He was singing about himself. It was an extraordinary document of serious mental disturbance,’ says Peter Jenner. ‘A song of amazing mad grandeur,’ counters a more sympathetic Andrew King. Dr Sam Hutt dropped in while the band was recording the track. Unfortunately, he was tripping: ‘All I can remember thinking was: Uh-oh, here come the demons!’"

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 93). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

Weird how you singled that out as a moment of genius. I guess you could call it proto punk, the same way you could call any poorly recorded, one chord song proto punk.

I don't see any lyric similarities between that, and any form of punk though. Especially not the initial wave of punk. Those lyrics tended to be quite topical.

Maybe you should start gathering information from more than 1 book.

You know 1 source doesn't really cut it anywhere as going for the ultimate truth.

Also a lie told 1000 times is still a lie.

That's a very interesting conversation you've just had with yourself.

Really clever pun on the fact that I just told you I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

I suggest you try your pun skills out on someone who attend anger management classes next time.

You could eventually finish off your joke with the remark: "....now give me your punch line!"

And if you feel like more continue with: "Hit me baby, one more time!"

 

[tbz]

Maybe you should start gathering information from other than 1 book.

You know 1 source doesn't really cut it anywhere as going for the ultimate truth.

Also a lie told 1000 times is still a lie.

Really clever pun on the fact that I just told you I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

I suggest you try your pun skills out on someone who attend anger management classes next time.

You do realize there are several people quoted there right? A Floyd roadie and someone else that was one of their peers? I can toss in 10-20 more quotes, from other folks, that all say the same thing. He was incapable of performing. He wouldn't play or sing.

So they brought in Gilmore to fill in, then eventually just stopped picking him up. It should be noted that Syd still had the itineraries; the band just didn't give him a ride. So he'd occasionally show up, and then do his standard thing of standing still, and not playing, or singing.

Then he eventually just stopped.

Substantial portions of that book are compiled from existing interviews. So while they're compiled into a single volume, they came initially from other sources, in most cases.

Sorry that facts upset you so much. Might help to do some research into things you love, beyond liner notes and articles in Rolling Stone.

 

[Charlzm]

I think that's a bit silly considering how diverse all their early albums are. They have never really had a single sound, minus maybe the Rogers heavy stuff like the wall and final cut. They just continued to evolve with their later stuff.

If you listen to live concerts from their later post waters years they still play their old stuff spot on, even better even in some cases. They don't really have to "try" and sound like Pink Floyd because they are pink floyd

Aren't opinions wonderful? You have one and I have one and the world is still ok.

Oh, and listen to the "In the Flesh" live album by Waters. I think it's a better Floyd live set than "Delicate Sound of Thunder".

 

[NoiseNinja]

You do realize there are several people quoted there right? A Floyd roadie and someone else that was one of their peers? I can toss in 10-20 more quotes, from other folks, that all say the same thing. He was incapable of performing. He wouldn't play or sing.

So they brought in Gilmore to fill in, then eventually just stopped picking him up. It should be noted that Syd still had the itineraries; the band just didn't give him a ride. So he'd occasionally show up, and then do his standard thing of standing still, and not playing, or singing.

Then he eventually just stopped.

Substantial portions of that book are compiled from existing interviews. So while they're compiled into a single volume, they came initially from other sources, in most cases.

Sorry that facts upset you so much. Might help to do some research into things you love, beyond liner notes and articles in Rolling Stone.

So quotes from the first producer of Syd's first solo album Peter Jenner and some of his session musicians, let alone his own family aren't valid sources in your opinion, since you are obviously leaving them out for some strange reason?

Could it be because they don't validate the picture you are trying to paint of Syd Barrett?

 

[JimmyM]

It's one of my favorite versions too with some great middle breaks..... except for one thing...... the extra note where he hammers on from the open E to the F#. It was never there in any version except with Guy playing on that tour. It's only a very little thing but to me it makes me wince a little every time I hear it. It works fine once the drums kick in but for the intro, it's really noticable to me. Even Guy admits in his book that he had no idea that he wasn't playing it as per the original until someone pointed it out to him.

Pedantic alert:

He's not hammering it. He's picking it

Also, while it's true the bass isn't playing that E note before the low F#, the guitar is playing a dead note in the same spot when it comes in, and I could see where Guy might have thought it was the bass doing it.

 

[tbz]

So quotes from the first producer of Syd's first solo album Peter Jenner and some of his session musicians, let alone his own family aren't valid sources in your opinion, since you are obviously leaving them out for some strange reason?

Could it be because they don't validate the picture you are trying to paint of Syd Barrett?

Quotes from Peter Jenner like this one? That I quoted before?

‘He was singing about himself. It was an extraordinary document of serious mental disturbance,’ says Peter Jenner.

Or this stuff?

Jeff Jarratt was hired to engineer some of the sessions, but was stunned by the change in Syd since The Piper at the Gates of Dawn. ‘It was tragic,’ says Jeff now. ‘One minute there was this guy who was this creative force and next he was like a vegetable.’

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 130). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

Or, I dunno, maybe this:

‘My memory is that EMI were going to shut the album down and shelve it,’ said Gilmour. ‘And I think Roger and I volunteered to rescue the project if they gave us more time. They gave us three days and it was very tricky to get anything done. Syd was in a very poor state in the studio, falling over, knocking mikes over. We put it out as best we could.’

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 130). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

Maybe this will suffice?

Barrett showed up in the studio with an unusable recording of a revving motorcycle engine, which he wanted to dub onto a track. Later, he invited his old friends The Soft Machine to play on a song, but ignored their requests to know what key it was in, before walking out of the studio.

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 130). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

That's just a single page mind you. That's not every incident of his insanity even on that page.

 

[NoiseNinja]

Quotes from Peter Jenner like this one? That I quoted before?

‘He was singing about himself. It was an extraordinary document of serious mental disturbance,’ says Peter Jenner.

Or this stuff?

Jeff Jarratt was hired to engineer some of the sessions, but was stunned by the change in Syd since The Piper at the Gates of Dawn. ‘It was tragic,’ says Jeff now. ‘One minute there was this guy who was this creative force and next he was like a vegetable.’

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 130). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

Or, I dunno, maybe this:

‘My memory is that EMI were going to shut the album down and shelve it,’ said Gilmour. ‘And I think Roger and I volunteered to rescue the project if they gave us more time. They gave us three days and it was very tricky to get anything done. Syd was in a very poor state in the studio, falling over, knocking mikes over. We put it out as best we could.’

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 130). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

Maybe this will suffice?

Barrett showed up in the studio with an unusable recording of a revving motorcycle engine, which he wanted to dub onto a track. Later, he invited his old friends The Soft Machine to play on a song, but ignored their requests to know what key it was in, before walking out of the studio.

Blake, Mark. Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd (p. 130). Da Capo Press. Kindle Edition.

That's just a single page mind you. That's not every incident of his insanity even on that page.

Again you are finding quotes that seems to validate your version.

Try to dig deeper.

If you care that is.

I am not telling you to do so, still it might change your viewpoint a little.

No harm trying seeing things from a little different perspective, actually on the contrary it is usually quite healthy.

 

[tbz]

Again you are finding quotes that seems to validate your version.

Try to dig deeper.

EDIT: Nice weird ninja edit btw.

Seriously though, there's like 30 pages of him being insane. With quotes from everyone that knew him or interacted with him, for the most part.

There's nothing below that. Nowhere else to dig.

Quotes from people that were there and had to clean up his mess indicate he was just gone. He was incapable of functioning.

I'm sorry you can't accept that reality, but that's just documented fact.

 

[NoiseNinja]

EDIT: Nice weird ninja edit btw.

Seriously though, there's like 30 pages of him being insane. With quotes from everyone that knew him or interacted with him, for the most part.

There's nothing below that. Nowhere else to dig.

Quotes from people that were there and had to clean up his mess indicate he was just gone. He was incapable of functioning.

I'm sorry you can't accept that reality, but that's just documented fact.

If I had access to the right sources I could probably pick out instances of your life too that made you look utterly insane and unpredictable too, if that was my goal.

 

[tbz]

If I had access to the right sources I could probably pick out instances in your life too that made you look unterly insane and unpredictable too.

That is a really weird way to avoid accepting reality.

Like....really weird. Pathetically desperate, weird.

 

[NoiseNinja]

That is a really weird way to avoid accepting reality.

Like....really weird. Pathetically desperate, weird.

You do realize that was not a threat, but a hypothetical fact, right?

Sure you are not suffering from paranoia?

 

[tbz]

You do realize that was not a threat, but a hypothetical fact.

Sure you are not suffering from paranoia?

Hypothetical = serving as a hypothesis.

Fact = a thing that is indisputably the case.

Using them together is an oxymoron.

Are you trying to say "not a threat, but a fact"

Or "not a threat, but a hypothesis"

They mean substantially different things. Also, neither makes sense.

 

[tbz]

You do realize that was not a threat, but a hypothetical fact, right?

Sure you are not suffering from paranoia?

How's your Gnome doing btw son?

 

[NoiseNinja]

Hypothetical = serving as a hypothesis.

Fact = a thing that is indisputably the case.

Using them together is an oxymoron.

Are you trying to say "not a threat, but a fact"

Or "not a threat, but a hypothesis"

They mean substantially different things. Also, neither makes sense.

No, you just fail to transcendent the boundaries of common linguistic consent sematics.

Also would it calm you down if I worded it one instead of reffering to I?