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Rubio Monocoat for bass bodies

BTL

Commercial Seller
Commercial User
Sep 26, 2006
3,680
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6,890
Odessa, FL
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Brad Lowe, Lowe Custom Guitars
I'm loving this Rubio Monocoat finish.

0% VOC, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

I ordered 100ml samples of the "Oil Plus 2C - A (color)" and 75ml cans of the "Oil Plus 2C - B Accelerator" from Link Removed.

You have to call them to get the "Oil Plus 2C - B Accelerator" as it's not available on the site.

Also, they offer contractor pricing over the phone.

They included red and white 3M buffing pads with the samples.

I'd guess I used less than 20ml of material to finish the body shown below.

One and done...amazing.

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Thanks Brad, I have a small bottle in my shop I have yet to try. I bought a small like 2 Oz bottle on eBay after a saw a finish a guy did on a bass that was featured on Best Bass Gear like 3 years ago. Does it build up? How would you compare it to say Tru-Oil? Please post more pics when and if you can. Super cool to share it with us brother! Looking forward to more on these products..
 
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Honestly, it's like nothing I've ever seen.

It neither soaks in nor builds up, but gloss is definitely not an option.

Here's a promo video, and from a technical perspective...it's a bit of a headscratcher.

 
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It's apparently all about the molecular bonding technology they use, and after all it is a FLOOR finish. I can't imagine that durability would be an issue if it's make for people to walk on it. My only question is, can you spray a couple of coats of nitro or poly over it with no issues, to get more of into the glossy realm.

Brad, it looks great, but it's perhaps a little hard to tell in black.

Screen Shot 2019-05-05 at 8.42.23 AM.png
 
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Monocoat IS WHAT IT IS. If you're looking to top coat it with something else, don't. The manufacturer even warns that it is IMPOSSIBLE to apply a second coat, so that should tip you off to top-coating.

I used +2C for a neck recently as an experiment. Believe them when they tell you it takes 3 WEEKS to fully cure! I've been using my neck for 3 months and there's still a residual odor. It's not a bad odor, but I prefer my instruments as scent-free.

The finish is nice enough, and has a great feel under hand. If you don't mind the smell and like REALLY LONG periods of setting your new project to the side then it might be an acceptable finish. It feels very much like a Warwick oil-finished bass I played many years ago.

My take-away? Meh.
 
@dwizum Yes, this is flaxseed (linseed) oil based. It cleans up easily with paper towels and a little bit of mineral spirits. It's a floor finish, so it's durable and water resistant.

@rudy4444 Did you use the part B accelerator?

rubio-monocoat-oil-accelerator-comp-b-75ml-rubio-m.jpg


After everything I have read, I would be reluctant to use the Monocoat without Part B Accelerator on a guitar finish for all of the reasons you have described.

The benefit of skipping the accelerator is that recoating a scratched area is supposed to be a snap.

The downside is that applying new oil "reactivates" the old oil somehow, which seems like a potentially problematic situation for guitar use.

As far as topcoating goes, I plan to test spray on satin polyurethane as a top coat for sealing in dry transfer decals.

This is definitely NOT a direct replacement for shiny 2K urethane automotive-style finishes.
 
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Copying this from the Water-Base Finishes thread. Rudy and Brad above have already provided some of the answers to my speculation:

Hey Rick;

First, I have to state that I have not personally tried Rubio Monocoat. I'm just commenting on what I'm reading from their literature.

What they've made is an improvement on a wax-type finish. They've found a way to make the "wax" chemically harden and bond better to the wood fibers. And it's "natural", that is, not using nasty petroleum-base solvents. All good, a worthwhile innovation. As a side note, their flax-base chemistry is probably quite similar to what Rocklite is using in their synthetic ebony.

Anyway, back up and understand the difference between a wax-type finish and a varnish-type finish.

A wax finish is typically rubbed on with pressure, pushing the finish deep down into the pores. Hardly any of the finish is left on the surface. The wax in the pores seals up the wood and prevents moisture from soaking in and causing swelling and cracking. That's all good. In a traditional wax finish, the wax always stays somewhat soft, and the wood needs to have some more wax rubbed in from time to time.

But the key thing is that a wax finish leaves almost nothing on the surface of the wood to protect it against abrasion and scratches. A wax finish seals up the wood, but it doesn't really mechanically protect it much. Other than the surface tends to be slippery, so things hitting it will tend to slide rather than dig in.

On the other hand, a varnish-type finish sinks into the pores, but it also leaves a coating over the surface. The coating dries hard and has some thickness. It's a full barrier that seals the wood up and covers the surface to protect it from mechanical abrasion. Polyurethane and polyester varnish finishes leave a coat of hard plastic on top of the wood.

The so-called Oil Finishes, such as the classic Tru-Oil, are kind of in-between, because they can be applied either way. If you wipe on a single coat of Tru-Oil, and immediately rub it all off, it pushes down into the pores and leaves almost nothing on the surface. Unlike pure wax, Tru-Oil has some, you know, chemicals in it, so it hardens up in a week or two. Left like that, just a single coat, it's effectively a hardened wax-type finish. It's commonly called an Oil Finish, because the part looks and feels almost like bare wood, but darkened somewhat by the amber tint of the Tru-Oil. As if you'd just wiped the wood with some oil.

Now, if you continue to apply coat after coat of Tru-Oil, then it builds up on the surface and hardens. It becomes a varnish-type finish; a hard coating on top of the wood, which protects it against mechanical abrasion.

Oil Finishes, such as Tru-Oil, Tung Oil Finish, etc., can be applied as a wax-type finish, with no real protection against abrasion. Or, they can be built up into a varnish finish, putting a protective coat on the surface.

Back to the original question about Rubio Monocoat:

From reading their material, it appears that Monocoat is an actual wax-based finish, with some additional (flax-based) chemistry that hardens it to some level. Plus some color pigment added. You wipe it on, it pushes down into the pores, and leaves a very thin coat on the surface, which hardens. So, it's tougher than if you had just rubbed it with colored wax.

They say that a second coat is unnecessary, and not recommended. I think that means that it doesn't bond to itself. Wiping on more, it just wipes back off. What you'd expect from a wax product. Rubbing it in will jam it into the pores, and it bonds to the wood, but it doesn't really bond to itself.

So, you really can't build it up into a varnish, a thicker protective coat on the surface.

My guess (and I haven't tested it) is:

1.) It's very quick and easy to apply, a fast way to color a piece of wood.
2.) It takes a week to a month to fully cure
3.) It has good resistance to moisture.
4.) It has minimal resistance to abrasion. I suspect it easily scratches and dulls.
5.) When it gets scratched, it's probably difficult to touch up or repair. Can you just rub some more on, like Tru-Oil? They don't really talk about that.
6.) If you can't recoat it, can you control the color to get it even or the right shade?
7.) I doubt that you can overcoat it with some other clear varnish like polyurethane. It probably won't bond to it. It's wax-base.

The main point is: When they talk about a wax-type finish being durable, they mean that it keeps the wood sealed up against moisture. Which is the main purpose of a finish.

But durability in terms of resistance to mechanical abrasion, that's what varnish-type finishes are for.

Wax-type finishes are used in some places to protect floors. And they do protect the wood against moisture. But they are abraded and scratched on the surface. That's the style.
 
Thanks @Bruce Johnson!

Monocoat has been out there as a finishing system for quite a while, but it's new to the US, and brand new to instrument finishing as far as I can determine.

People are using it on kitchen countertops, so I suspect it's more than adequate for a guitar.

I just finished my second body with it, and it's silly how easy it is to use.

I think the key to avoiding the concerns that @rudy4444 had will be to use the part B accelerator.

I'm certain it's not for everybody, but I'm impressed with how quickly and easily it yields a professional finish.
 
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Thanks @Bruce Johnson!

Monocoat has been out there as a finishing system for quite a while, but it's new to the US, and brand new to instrument finishing as far as I can determine.

People are using it on kitchen countertops, so I suspect it's more than adequate for a guitar.

I just finished my second body with it, and it's silly how easy it is to use.

I think the key to avoiding the concerns that @rudy4444 had will be to use the part B accelerator and also apply the Universal Maintenance Oil up front.

I'm certain it's not for everybody, but I'm impressed with how quickly and easily it yields a professional finish.

Okay, but is it really reasonably resistant to abrasion and scratching? Can you touch it up by rubbing more on, or something? Those are my big concerns, from reading about it.
 
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I'm not sure how resistant it is to abrasion, but it is a floor finish, and you just rub a little more on an abraded spot to touchup.

Here's the Charcoal body after curing about 12 hours:

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The next color up is Peacock Green.

I mixed three teaspoons of finish with one teaspoon of Part B accelerator and used an artist's bristle brush to apply the oil in the cavities.

For cleanup I used no more than 2 cut up paper towels and one ounce of mineral spirits.

Not bad.

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I had made the mistake a year or so ago of picking up the StewMac finish book.

Guitar_Finishing_Step-By-Step.jpg


They cover everything under the sun, and to a new guy like me, all it really did in the end is confuse me. The true oil, tung oil, French polish, shellac, varnish - then you have spray nitro and poly, wipe on poly and gels and water-based products and geeez, it just goes on and on.

One of the things I am really attracted to, is the vintage Les Paul finishes I have seen over the years. It's weird, maybe aging has something to do with it - but they aren't really satin and they aren't really gloss. Kind of a very appealing in between - maybe you would call it semi-gloss, at least they appear that way to me. And the fact that the nitro was supposedly applied in a few thin coats - well, sound-wise that makes sense to me too. That is part of why I was attracted to this Monocoat stuff. One thin coat and you are on your way. I love satin, but if there was a way to bring out just a sheen of semi-gloss that is the ticket for me.

Kind of like this. It's stain poly with semi gloss nitro sprayed over it.

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I really want to explore doing my own finishes, but it's hard to figure out what direction to take, until or unless you take the time and energy to do tons of research and testing. Like anything else, even though there is a wealth of great experience, information and advice here on TalkBass you still have to roll up your own sleeves. I think Bruce has a good suggestion about wiping on the clear water based stuff too - instead of spraying it. When the time comes, I just have to make some decisions i guess, and then get my hands dirty and figure it out.
 
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I had made the mistake a year or so ago of picking up the StewMac finish book.

View attachment 3407752

They cover everything under the sun, and to a new guy like me, all it really did in the end is confuse me. The true oil, tung oil, French polish, shellac, varnish - then you have nitro, poly and water-based products and geeez, it just goes on and on.

One of the things I am really attracted to, is the vintage Les Paul finishes I have seen over the years. It's weird, maybe aging has something to do with it - but they aren't really satin and they aren't really gloss. Kind of a very appealing in between - maybe you would call it semi-gloss, at least they appear that way to me. And the fact that the nitro was supposedly applied in a few thin coats - well, sound-wise that makes sense to me too. That is part of why I was attracted to this Monocoat stuff. One thin coat and you are on your way. I love satin, but if there was a way to bring out just a sheen of semi-gloss that is the ticket for me.

Kind of like this. It's stain poly with semi gloss nitro sprayed over it.

View attachment 3407779

I really want to explore doing my own finishes, but it's hard to figure out what direction to take, until or unless you take the time and energy to do tons of testing. Like anything else, even though there is a wealth of great experience, information and advice here on TalkBass you still have to roll up your own sleeves. I think Bruce has a good suggestion about wiping on the clear water based stuff too - instead of spraying it. When the time comes, I just have to make some decisions i guess, and then get my hands dirty and figure it out.

The old Gibson finishes weren’t actually that thin in the first place. Nitrocellulose never cures like other finishes do and it shrinks over time. Eventually it ends up very thin as the majority of solvents have evaporated over the years. people often assume it was actually sprayed that thin and the people spraying them had god like finishing skills to be able to get them that thin, level and glossy when in reality they would’ve started off much thicker.

The Monocoat looks like it could be a nice replacement to a traditional oil finish, but I definitely wouldn’t try and over coat it with anything to make it glossy. Wax will repel nearly all finishes.
 
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@Manton Customs

I'm not certain if Monocoat has wax in it or not, but my impression is that it may be topcoated with oil-based polyurethane.

I will be testing that out by putting logo decals over RM and topcoating with spray satin poly to see if it works.

Thanks!
 
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Good luck. I understood it did contain wax, they certainly mention it on their website. Either way it contains linseed oil which is generally not good to overcoat without getting adhesion issues either. It may appear to accept the finish ok, but I’d run some adhesion tests afterwards to be sure.

@Manton Customs That's the plan, and thank you!

A quick look at the Rubio site confirms your statement:

Rubio Monocoat said:
Rubio Monocoat is a plant-based hardwax oil wood finish that is 0% VOC.
 
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These are the next two bodies I finished, a Thunderluxe NR in Midnight Indigo:

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...and a Thunderluxe body in Cinnamon Brown:

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Again, I wouldn't consider using this system without the Part B accelerator.

With it, it's almost like magic to me.

The material has a pleasant, almost cinnamon-like smell that is completely gone after 24 hours.
 
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hi @BeeTL , do you just wiping rmc after sanding and wipe leftovers with paper towel?

how was the result with top-coated universal maintenance oil piece?

and last, do you know the difference between 2C and +2C? i am not sure if i can find +2C here,

thanks
 
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One more question while we're at it - did you ever try putting logo decals over it and spraying a satin poly topcoat like mentioned in post 15 above?

A local place carries the whole shebang, so I may try some on an oak body I've got... :thumbsup:
 
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