Well - he said that Kens' contribution were valuable and that it wasn't a problem with content - just the style - so how else do you interpret this...
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Double Bass SAD! Ken Smith Fiasco!!!
- Thread starter Paul Warburton
- Start date
- Status
Well - he said that Kens' contribution were valuable and that it wasn't a problem with content - just the style - so how else do you interpret this...
As I said, it is a tradeoff. The content across posts may have merit but if, overall, the style is off-putting to many over repeated occasions, that's a problem. Where's the line? It is where paul places it. I happen to think he placed it correctly. You do not. You want an expertise test. paul (and many of us) do not. I think we get it.
Well my view is that this will inevitably lead to more and more valuable members leaving and we end up with people who are able to express themselves very clearly and "nicely", but have nothing to say on the subject... very sad
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I do hope this isn't arguing about deckchairs and lifeboats while the ship sinks. You guys are as bad as the UN. Debate all you want, but don't miss the bigger picture.
We need people on this forum with Ken's years of experience. I've noticed that the other member's names I mentioned earlier seem to be posting less and less.
Go back and read the very first post in this thread.
There is little interest for me to be here without their continued expertise. That's all I'm saying.
Don't drag me in any further.
We need people on this forum with Ken's years of experience. I've noticed that the other member's names I mentioned earlier seem to be posting less and less.
Go back and read the very first post in this thread.
There is little interest for me to be here without their continued expertise. That's all I'm saying.
Don't drag me in any further.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Well my view is that this will inevitably lead to more and more valuable members leaving and we end up with people who are able to express themselves very clearly and "nicely", but have nothing to say on the subject... very sad
posted while I was trying to make a concise point.
+1
The dichotomy you pose, Bruce, may be useful to you as a rhetorical device but basically a great many of don't believe it's anything we're going to encounter in reality. I sure as heck don't believe it for a second.
Authority isn't something somebody gets -- or has bestowed on them -- which they then keep forever and ever. It ain't a seat in the House of Lords, Bruce. It's more like a bank account -- you accrue capital, you earn interest, etc. You wanna blow it on a drunken spree? Go for it -- watch your bank account go down.
If you want a philosophical argument about authority, go read Max Weber on the subject. Seriously. You'd learn that Max understood a great deal about how human groupings work. Internet board? Armed Forces? A corporate corps of clerks? No difference. An authority economy is at work at all times; people are losing and gaining at all times; you got your blue chip stocks that can be counted on; etc. etc et bleeding cetera...
Authority isn't something somebody gets -- or has bestowed on them -- which they then keep forever and ever. It ain't a seat in the House of Lords, Bruce. It's more like a bank account -- you accrue capital, you earn interest, etc. You wanna blow it on a drunken spree? Go for it -- watch your bank account go down.
If you want a philosophical argument about authority, go read Max Weber on the subject. Seriously. You'd learn that Max understood a great deal about how human groupings work. Internet board? Armed Forces? A corporate corps of clerks? No difference. An authority economy is at work at all times; people are losing and gaining at all times; you got your blue chip stocks that can be counted on; etc. etc et bleeding cetera...
Nor do I. So now we can be empiricists. paul has set the rules. Bruce predicts one outcome and Damon predicts another. I'm placing my bet on Damon's prediction. Now let's watch what happens.
Well my view is that this will inevitably lead to more and more valuable members leaving and we end up with people who are able to express themselves very clearly and "nicely", but have nothing to say on the subject... very sad
Except, that, TBDB history shows us that there many members who are capable of expressing themselves clearly and "nicely" who, in fact, do have something meaningful to say.
As I suggested in this thread and another, I don't really have a problem with people being coarse in this type of forum. There's no real pain, no real blood lost and the value of the pearls woven into the mud slinging is well worth it, IMO.
But Paul has decided to take a higher road, and I respect and admire that. This is his house. I am glad to be welcome to play.
As much as I wish skins could thicken in the interest of quality and quantity of genuinely valuable discussion, I have to, as a matter of principle, dismiss without concern anyone who takes their ball and goes home, as obviously, they are a little thin-skinned themselves.
Look, Ken is not banned and can come and go as he pleases. This is as it should be. For any of us who would like to post and interact, its not a matter of treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Its a matter of STAY WITHIN THE RULES. Black/white, night/day, plain & simple. No leeway when adhering to rules somewhat dissuades hurt feelings & personal attacks. They can still occur but a level playing field is all that we can ask for.
Old/young, pro/amateur, tempered/brash, extravert/introvert, etc. We all come from different styles & backgrounds that dont always mesh and meld smoothly. A dining experience in a NYC deli is a LOT different than a meat & three in Nashville. Seriously. Are New Yorkers rude? Are Nashvillians slow? This dichotomy occurs face to face! Now throw in the written word on a world-wide internet bulletin board with instantaneous responses to something that may have been initially misread and one can envision problems even between friends who have known each other for years.
Lets all step back and take a breath. Were Bass players for Petes sake! Acting like a bunch of french horn & guitard players And I dont even know if my profile is filled in all the way. If that ticks you off then hurry up with my reuben uh .sweetie???
Old/young, pro/amateur, tempered/brash, extravert/introvert, etc. We all come from different styles & backgrounds that dont always mesh and meld smoothly. A dining experience in a NYC deli is a LOT different than a meat & three in Nashville. Seriously. Are New Yorkers rude? Are Nashvillians slow? This dichotomy occurs face to face! Now throw in the written word on a world-wide internet bulletin board with instantaneous responses to something that may have been initially misread and one can envision problems even between friends who have known each other for years.
Lets all step back and take a breath. Were Bass players for Petes sake! Acting like a bunch of french horn & guitard players And I dont even know if my profile is filled in all the way. If that ticks you off then hurry up with my reuben uh .sweetie???
Are you sure? I noticed him lurking on this thread earlier, but didn't Paul say something about his posting priviliges being taken away?
Heifetzbass
Commercial User
- Feb 6, 2004
- 774
- 118
- Disclosures
- Owner, Gencarelli Bass Works and Fine String Instruments, LLC.
Daddy Warbucks, Please don't go! 
I just want to weigh in to say that I will miss Ken's posts and his contributions. The DB board has been slower since his departure. (Or at least not as interesting to me...)
I had some issues with his posts, and tone. He could be abrasive, and confrontational- but that is just his personality. The New Yawker was coming out!
I am not one of the "oldest" members here, but I have seen some interesting events since I started reading here. I have learned valuable info, seen a lot of great basses, and developed relationships with people I may have never met otherwise. Some of the folks I know from other boards, which are moderated much more heavily than this one. They have never been anything but professional and respectful. Some are even moderators here.
I hope Ken will "come to his senses" and come back, and we can all learn to get along. Sometimes brothers fight, but it doesn't mean you still don't love each other. This community is like the "Bass Band of Brothers" and we need to stick together. Paul W. is the elder statesman, and I think we all look to him for "fatherly" guidance. It will hurt if he leaves, but I respect his decision either way.
I have one final comment on this subject, and this applies to everyone-
"It ain't what you say- it's how you say it."
Be respectful, insightful, knowledgeable, and be able to defend your point of view before you hit that 'post reply' button. It is real easy to "chew someone up and spit them out" on an internet board. They are a real person, in real life.
Peace, Love, and Harmony (would that be I, V, I) for us?
Brian
I just want to weigh in to say that I will miss Ken's posts and his contributions. The DB board has been slower since his departure. (Or at least not as interesting to me...)
I had some issues with his posts, and tone. He could be abrasive, and confrontational- but that is just his personality. The New Yawker was coming out!
I am not one of the "oldest" members here, but I have seen some interesting events since I started reading here. I have learned valuable info, seen a lot of great basses, and developed relationships with people I may have never met otherwise. Some of the folks I know from other boards, which are moderated much more heavily than this one. They have never been anything but professional and respectful. Some are even moderators here.
I hope Ken will "come to his senses" and come back, and we can all learn to get along. Sometimes brothers fight, but it doesn't mean you still don't love each other. This community is like the "Bass Band of Brothers" and we need to stick together. Paul W. is the elder statesman, and I think we all look to him for "fatherly" guidance. It will hurt if he leaves, but I respect his decision either way.
I have one final comment on this subject, and this applies to everyone-
"It ain't what you say- it's how you say it."
Be respectful, insightful, knowledgeable, and be able to defend your point of view before you hit that 'post reply' button. It is real easy to "chew someone up and spit them out" on an internet board. They are a real person, in real life.
Peace, Love, and Harmony (would that be I, V, I) for us?
Brian
And that, boys and girls, is the real bottom line.
John Goldsby and Lynn Seaton can both be silly bastids in person in circumstances where that sort of thing is kosher, but when they post here, they are the model of civility. Sure, John's still a silly basstid, but he's an extremely civil silly bastid. And if Lynn, John, Marco Panascia, Patrick Neher, and Brian Bromberg can all manage to post here within the forum rules without any special "leeway" granted, then I don't see why anyone else of real or imagined "elevated status" can't do so as well. End of story.
I do hope this isn't arguing about deckchairs and lifeboats while the ship sinks. You guys are as bad as the UN. Debate all you want, but don't miss the bigger picture.
We need people on this forum with Ken's years of experience. I've noticed that the other member's names I mentioned earlier seem to be posting less and less.
Go back and read the very first post in this thread.
There is little interest for me to be here without their continued expertise. That's all I'm saying.
I agree that we may be losing sight of this fact!
I know that in the 7 or 8 years I've been here, we have regularly been losing valuable members and this thread is really about whether we lose Paul W as well - I see less and less experienced players around here and at the same time more and more regulation.
There's only one conclusion I can draw.
Given the same evidence, others draw the opposite one. So, let's see what happens.
Jeff Bollbach
Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.
I think the Donald should lay off of Rosie!
Wow, I can't believe I spent my entire lunch hour reading this when I have a 4 o'clock deadline on a bass. Damn you Ken Smith, damn you Paul Determan! and damn you too Warm baton, I miss your avatar so much. [btw, was in Paul Biase's shop the other day[with Ken] and he had that pic up in his shop. He was no help in identifing the duo. It has become a quest for me!]
Wow, I can't believe I spent my entire lunch hour reading this when I have a 4 o'clock deadline on a bass. Damn you Ken Smith, damn you Paul Determan! and damn you too Warm baton, I miss your avatar so much. [btw, was in Paul Biase's shop the other day[with Ken] and he had that pic up in his shop. He was no help in identifing the duo. It has become a quest for me!]
Well I'm talking about the past 7-8 years - not the future....
I think we're doing just fine. So, I still come to the opposite conclusion.
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