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Sadowsky strings: black label vs blue label

#261
Great thread, that I just discovered after purchasing a used RS-4 (from another TB'er), to be my first Sadowsky (still on the way to me).

However, "a picture (or in this case an mp3) is worth 1000 words". My RS-4 is coming strung with a new set of DR Sunbeams (nickel wound, 45-105).

Time permitting, I'll order 1 set each of comparable gauge Blue Label and Black Label nickel wounds, and will make several sound files of each, playing every fret on every string (fingerstyle is all I do consistently) with all EQ flat, directly into either a Zoom H4 or into GarageBand (no effects). I'll post links to the sound files here as soon as I can get this done.

BTW, slightly off topic: The July issue of Bass Guitar Magazine (out of the UK) has an interview with Roger (and a review of the Will Lee model). One comment that Roger made that struck a chord with me (no pun intended) was that guitars/woods open up if they're played regularly. In retrospect it seems 100% true to me, when I've focused on 1 instrument for extended periods of time...
 
#262
I have been usuing the Sadowsky blue 5 string nickle light set on my ( 10 years old now ) sadowsky standard 5 for a couple months now , and really enjoy the sound and feel , they also seem to last a long time , the 5 set deal is nice as well , everything he puts out has been great
 
#263
Above I wrote that I would provide audio files comparing nickel string sets. Here they are.

First, a little background on what I did:
  • Sadowsky Metro RS-4 #M477 (2005) with VTC upgrade
  • Set with volume max, Passive (no EQ), pickup pan selector at mid-position, VTC turned all the way to the right (no treble cutting)
  • GarageBand via Griffin cable, no effects, mixer track volume set to 0 DB, Recording level set to mid-point.
  • Finger plucked (floating thumb), roughly midway between both J pickups, a bit closer to bridge pickup.
  • Played on each track:
    1. groups of 4-5 chromatic notes on each string starting with low E, then moving up the neck for each subsequent group.
    2. Open E slap (disclaimer: I never slap or pop)
    3. Pop: E on G string (same disclaimer)

Strings compared:

Sadowsky Black Label nickel 45-65-85-105
  • Feel: very slick, not at all sticky, nice tension (bends nicely but not too slinky)
  • Stayed in tune immediately.
Sadowsky Blue Label nickel 45-65-85-105
  • Feel: same as Black labels
  • Also stayed in tune immediately.

Overall, I felt no significant difference between the Blue and Black nickel strings. Subjectively, I think the Blues were maybe a tad bit warmer sounding. But listen to the mp3s and you be the judge.

I also did a "blinded" test, listening to each file without knowing which one it was. I could not tell which one was Blue and which was Black... They sounded virtually identical to me, so I'm keeping both. However, seeing as I'm a jazz guy, I'm going to get the light gauge Blue label nickel rounds from now on (40-60-80-100).
 
#264
Just a forwarding note:
I have Black Nickel and Black Steel as well, and I'll compare and contrast such as I can after I spend a little more time with the Blues...

OK!

Sadowsky Strings

This all started with a bass I had, that I really wanted to like, and just wasn't happy with. It was an ash/maple 5 string JJ, with Nordstrand Big Singles, and a Nordstrand 3 band preamp with passive tone. While it sounded ok, it just never sounded as good as I thought it should. It didn't have the snap I thought it should, nor did it hold a definitive position in the mix as I thought it should. So, I got in touch with Roger Sadowsky, who says his strings are the best you've ever played! So, I got one of each, Blue Steel and Blue Nickel, Black Steel and Black Nickel all in 45/65/85/105/130T gauge.

For all this testing, I used a Mesa Walkabout head, and either an Epifani UL410 cab or Low down Sound 4x8+horn cab. The Epi is big and deep with a clear and pleasing, but not overwhelming top end. Depending what bass I'm using, I sometimes wish the Epi had a little more top end sheen; so it doesn't pair with all my basses as well as I'd like when used with the Walkabout. With the Mesa M6, it's genius though! The Low Down sound with it's long throw 8's is equally as hefty, but it's Selenium horn is brighter, and adds even more top end sheen. This makes it a nicer fit with the Walkabout for me, with a wider range of my basses.

After talking to me, Roger thought that maybe the Blue Nickles might be the ones that would work best on this bass; so that's what I tried first. And dang if he wasn't right! First: for nickel strings, the blues have a lot of top end; but they also have the nice round, warm lows and low mids you'd expect from nickel strings. They totally woke the Big Singles/Nord preamp'd bass up, and just dominated a mix to the point where the drummer actually took notice and asked what I was doing different that night. In this bass, they really added the low mid weight this one needed to prop up the bass's position in a live mix: it turned from blah to hefty, weighty, and snappy. Perfect!

The Blue Nickles are a nice “slightly over medium tension.” They don't wobble around under your fingers, nor do they require much effort to play; and they respond well dynamically to varying degrees of digging in. My reference for medium tension being D'Addario XL170 nickel rounds, which are 45-65-80-100-130; and classified by DA as “regular light gauge.”

It had been my intent to run all four sets of strings thru their paces on the Big Single JJ bass; but GAS overcame me, and I flipped it for a Sadowsky RV5-PJ.

The RV5-PJ came with Sadowsky Blue Steels on it-I'm pretty sure all Sadowskys ship with Blue Steels on unless you request something else. I was not personally comfortable with the seup on the RV5-PJ as delivered; the P pickup was high enough that it completely dominated the bass...it was huuuuuge! When blending from P to J, the J felt weak and anemic-which it certainly didn't on my RV5-JJ. So, the first thing for me was to drop the P pickup some so that when spinning blend from P to J it was more balanced. Not at all a big deal to do.

The first thing I noticed about the Blue Steels on the RV5-PJ is this: they're bright! You can hear this even unplugged, that stainless round-wound zing is clearly evident! With the pickups where I wanted them, PJ sounded about as one would expect. It has a great middy P tone with a lot of heft to it, and an excellent barking J tone. As noted above, you can really set the heft of the P tone with pickup height. Thru the Walkabout and LDS 4x8, there's enough top end with the Blue Steels that I consistently ran the VTC (Sadowsky's passive tone control) back about 50% to help the bass sound “more like a traditional P bass.” The the UL410, I used less VTC, but still had it dialed back some. Even still, the Blue Steels felt a tad mid scooped, and perhaps more modern than I wanted; so, time to slap on the Blue Nickels and see what they did!

The Blue Nickels are moved the RV5-PJ's tone more to the vintage side of things. While they still have a nice amount of top end, they aren't as bright as the Blue Steels. Unplugged, they don't ring and zing like the Blue Steels did. Plugged in, they seem warmer, rounder and fuller, but still have enough top end that to get “that true old school P tone” I backed the VTC off some, even in passive mode. For me, the Blue Nickels are a better fit for the PJ and the tone I want from it: good deal! The windings on the Blue Nickels also see a little easier on the fingers than the steels.




RV5-JJ notes:
The RV5-JJ I have came with Pedulla Steels on it; which I liked well enough. Nice top end, and a nice midrange presence that some steels don't have; the RV5-JJ has a nice warm woody low mids and mids with these strings. It did seem a just little shy on low end with the Pedullas; though with the Sadowsky's two band active preamp this was easily corrected by adding just a touch of bass boost. So, I slapped on the Blue Steels I took off the Sadowsky RV5-PJ to see how they might change the RV5-JJ. The Sadowsky Blue Steels have equal top end, and more low end. This ends up feeling more even and balanced across the spectrum compared the the Pedulla's mid-bump. The Pedullas are lighter tension by comparison; this makes sense as they are 45/65/80/100/128, and 80-128 are all taperwound vs only the the 130 on the Sadowskys. This is good for me as I play with a relatively heavy right hand sometimes..

Again, I do have the Black Nickels and Steels on hand, and I'm lloking forward to coming up with the time to a/b them on the RV5-PJ, and then try and contrast to the Blues.
 
#265
Chef said:
Just a forwarding note:
I have Black Nickel and Black Steel as well, and I'll compare and contrast such as I can after I spend a little more time with the Blues...

OK!

Sadowsky Strings

This all started with a bass I had, that I really wanted to like, and just wasn't happy with. It was an ash/maple 5 string JJ, with Nordstrand Big Singles, and a Nordstrand 3 band preamp with passive tone. While it sounded ok, it just never sounded as good as I thought it should. It didn't have the snap I thought it should, nor did it hold a definitive position in the mix as I thought it should. So, I got in touch with Roger Sadowsky, who says his strings are the best you've ever played! So, I got one of each, Blue Steel and Blue Nickel, Black Steel and Black Nickel all in 45/65/85/105/130T gauge.

For all this testing, I used a Mesa Walkabout head, and either an Epifani UL410 cab or Low down Sound 4x8+horn cab. The Epi is big and deep with a clear and pleasing, but not overwhelming top end. Depending what bass I'm using, I sometimes wish the Epi had a little more top end sheen; so it doesn't pair with all my basses as well as I'd like when used with the Walkabout. With the Mesa M6, it's genius though! The Low Down sound with it's long throw 8's is equally as hefty, but it's Selenium horn is brighter, and adds even more top end sheen. This makes it a nicer fit with the Walkabout for me, with a wider range of my basses.

After talking to me, Roger thought that maybe the Blue Nickles might be the ones that would work best on this bass; so that's what I tried first. And dang if he wasn't right! First: for nickel strings, the blues have a lot of top end; but they also have the nice round, warm lows and low mids you'd expect from nickel strings. They totally woke the Big Singles/Nord preamp'd bass up, and just dominated a mix to the point where the drummer actually took notice and asked what I was doing different that night. In this bass, they really added the low mid weight this one needed to prop up the bass's position in a live mix: it turned from blah to hefty, weighty, and snappy. Perfect!

The Blue Nickles are a nice “slightly over medium tension.” They don't wobble around under your fingers, nor do they require much effort to play; and they respond well dynamically to varying degrees of digging in. My reference for medium tension being D'Addario XL170 nickel rounds, which are 45-65-80-100-130; and classified by DA as “regular light gauge.”

It had been my intent to run all four sets of strings thru their paces on the Big Single JJ bass; but GAS overcame me, and I flipped it for a Sadowsky RV5-PJ.

The RV5-PJ came with Sadowsky Blue Steels on it-I'm pretty sure all Sadowskys ship with Blue Steels on unless you request something else. I was not personally comfortable with the seup on the RV5-PJ as delivered; the P pickup was high enough that it completely dominated the bass...it was huuuuuge! When blending from P to J, the J felt weak and anemic-which it certainly didn't on my RV5-JJ. So, the first thing for me was to drop the P pickup some so that when spinning blend from P to J it was more balanced. Not at all a big deal to do.

The first thing I noticed about the Blue Steels on the RV5-PJ is this: they're bright! You can hear this even unplugged, that stainless round-wound zing is clearly evident! With the pickups where I wanted them, PJ sounded about as one would expect. It has a great middy P tone with a lot of heft to it, and an excellent barking J tone. As noted above, you can really set the heft of the P tone with pickup height. Thru the Walkabout and LDS 4x8, there's enough top end with the Blue Steels that I consistently ran the VTC (Sadowsky's passive tone control) back about 50% to help the bass sound “more like a traditional P bass.” The the UL410, I used less VTC, but still had it dialed back some. Even still, the Blue Steels felt a tad mid scooped, and perhaps more modern than I wanted; so, time to slap on the Blue Nickels and see what they did!

The Blue Nickels are moved the RV5-PJ's tone more to the vintage side of things. While they still have a nice amount of top end, they aren't as bright as the Blue Steels. Unplugged, they don't ring and zing like the Blue Steels did. Plugged in, they seem warmer, rounder and fuller, but still have enough top end that to get “that true old school P tone” I backed the VTC off some, even in passive mode. For me, the Blue Nickels are a better fit for the PJ and the tone I want from it: good deal! The windings on the Blue Nickels also see a little easier on the fingers than the steels.




RV5-JJ notes:
The RV5-JJ I have came with Pedulla Steels on it; which I liked well enough. Nice top end, and a nice midrange presence that some steels don't have; the RV5-JJ has a nice warm woody low mids and mids with these strings. It did seem a just little shy on low end with the Pedullas; though with the Sadowsky's two band active preamp this was easily corrected by adding just a touch of bass boost. So, I slapped on the Blue Steels I took off the Sadowsky RV5-PJ to see how they might change the RV5-JJ. The Sadowsky Blue Steels have equal top end, and more low end. This ends up feeling more even and balanced across the spectrum compared the the Pedulla's mid-bump. The Pedullas are lighter tension by comparison; this makes sense as they are 45/65/80/100/128, and 80-128 are all taperwound vs only the the 130 on the Sadowskys. This is good for me as I play with a relatively heavy right hand sometimes..

Again, I do have the Black Nickels and Steels on hand, and I'm lloking forward to coming up with the time to a/b them on the RV5-PJ, and then try and contrast to the Blues.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great review Alan!
 
#266
Sure thing!
I took both the PJ and JJ to my gig last night, thru the Walkabout/UL410 rig.
The Walkabout and I used to be great friends, but with an M6 in my toolkit now, it just doesn't go out much. When pushed, it gets a little too tubey for my tastes right now; compressing and adding some grit sometimes; and it just doesn't have the same top end extention the M6 does.
The Sadowskys are a great pairing with it though; becuase they have great top end extension built in and can compensate for what the Walkabout doesn't do. And, the Sadowsky strings really seems tailored to compliment that in their basses.
Tonight I'm at the same venue, with the same band. I'll probably take the Walkabout so my comparisons running the nickels on the PJ tonight are thru the same exact rig...but I might also take the M6 and change out after first set;)
 
#267
Brief update....
Used the Blue Nickle strung RV5-PJ>MarkBass F1>UL410.
The F1 has a lot more top end extension than the Walkabout; and s.s. speed and clarity the Walkabout doesn't. This isn't a better or worse thing, just a difference.
I like the Blue Nickles better than the Steels for the RV5-PJ; warmer, a little fatter, and not having that little bit of mid scoop suits me in the PJ application.
The nickles sure don't seem to give up much top end, with the F1 I had to dial the VTC back more than with the Walkabout to get that "olde schoole P tone," and man, thru the F1, it's just a snarling beast.

I also tried the Blue Steels on the RV5-JJ; and they're good on there if you want a more modern/edgy tone, and the little bit of mid scoop seems more suitable to a JJ bass-to me-but I'm looking forward to seeing if I like the nickles on that bass as much as I like them on the PJ...

More later, Black Label stuff coming after a while; I want to do it on a gig weekend where I can hear them in context.
 
#268
Black Nickle vs Blue Nickle

While this isn't the strictest a/b ever done, it's informative, I think...at least a little.

I got my new RV5-PJ last weekend (as mentioned a few posts above) and gigged it one night with the factory Blue Steels. I believe I noted above they have the top end you'd expect from other steelies, a little more low end, and a little less mid scoop than some steelies.
I also noted that I swapped them for Blue Nickles for Saturdays show, and that I found the Blue Nickels richer, without the tad of mid scoop, fat low end, and nice sheen on top. I found the Blue Nickles overall a better fit for me and what I wanted from the RV5PJ, which is alder/morado.

Also on Saturdays job, I tried the Blue Steels on my RV5JJ, which is also alder/morado. The results are about as the same as on the PJ; great snap on top, nice lows for steelies, and a tad of mid scoop. A lot of guys would dig this on a J bass, and it does sound more appropriate on the JJ to my ear than the PJ; it again just isn't in keeping with my personal goals...and, I have the Black Nickels on hand...so, I strung up the JJ with the Black Nickels.

Again, this isn't the truest a/b ever, because the PJ is, of course, a PJ, and not a JJ. But, they have the same bridge pickup so there is at least one common baseline, and I'm fairly familiar with both of them now.

The results:
They feel the same; not surprising as they're the same gauge.
They sound nearly the same; but I feel the blacks have a little more top end/edge to them.
Now, this may well be because they've only been on the bass for this 30 minutes of testing or so, and the Blues on the PJ do have a full night/4 set gig on them...
Never the less, that's what I hear, and I'm happier with the Black Nickels on the JJ; it's richer, fatter, and leans more towards old school versus the Blue Steels tendency to want to sound more modern.

Of course, the beauty of having the Sadowsky Nickels of either flavor, Blue or Black, on either of these two Sadowsky alder/morado basses is this: give the active treble boost a little goose, and the bass sounds a lot more modern. For the passages I ever do that require a truly aggressive slap tone, give the treble another little goose and you're there.

In any case, with both basses now wearing nickles, I can easily get a fat-pseudo-postmodern-yet-old-school fingerstyle tone by adding just a touch of active treble, and trimming the VTC just a touch. When I need more edge, I open the VTC up all the way; pretty much a one knob move from one ot the other.

So, for me, the Nickles are the shiz, and I think I like the little extra edge I hear from the Black Nickles.

Sweet;)
 
#272
I have the Sadowsky Black Nickels on my Sadowsky RV5-JJ, which has the HC pickups.
I have DAXL170 Nickles on my Valenti #46, which is alder-r/w like the Sadowsky, and has Sadowsky Single Coils/Sadowsky preamp. So, similar basses, but also different from each other...

Those two sets of strings sound pretty similar.

While you might think "wow, thanks for the lame comparison," the SC and HC pickups sound different enough from each other that even when I've had the same strings on those two basses, they sound very different from each other...so, that's about all I can do for you.
 
#275
just wondering, how often do you guys change strings? i've been hearing people say that these strings really last.

well, i've just strung up my second set of blue SS on my fender jazz. i replaced a string at a time so that i could do a little comparison.

the last time i restrung my bass was probably over a year ago, possibly a year and a half. just wondering if that is a relatively short or long time. i live in a climate that's tropical and humid all year round, which i doubt help strings last long.

anyway, i found that apart from the glassy-metallic top end, everything else about the string seemed to be pretty much the same. i use a j-retro preamp, and it's the kind of thing where if you rolled back the treble a little, the difference between old and new would be increasingly insignificant. the strings also look different, with the old strings looking a little darker and tarnished.

i had been a long time user of daddario prisms, and i have ever tried DRs (can't remember which). the DRs really didn't do it for me, they just sound scooped to begin with and completely dead to end with. in other words, at the end of its lifespan you basically get a different string. this is in contrast to the sadowskys.

i hope to try the blacks soon. but with this kind of life expectancy, it could take awhile.
 
#276
I have to agree about Smith strings. They sound amazing on my Smith, but don't last very long!!! I have been looking for a replacement brand of stainless steel roundwounds with a tapered low B and forgot about this thread!!!! I will definetely be getting a set of Black and Blue labels. If they sound good and last longer than the Smith strings, I'll be a Sadowsky string convert! :D

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste! :cool:
 
#278
I just installed a set of Blue Label stainless steels on my Ken Smith 5 string yesterday. They sound great and feel great, with seemingly less tension the the Smith strings that I replaced. I also like the low B more than the Smith low B. The proof will be how long they last! If I can get 2 months of use out of them, I will order more sets!

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste! :cool:
 
#279
For what it is worth, I am using a set of black label flatwound strings on a 2000 factory fretless Fender Jazz bass. They are mind blowing strings. I have tried DR flats and Chromes, but these strings are miles above. They found a way to keep mids and highs but still full and rich low end, with a wonderful smooth feel. It is true--they are fat and warm, but not dead. Best flatwounds I have heard or played.

I will be putting a set of round wounds on my Sadowsky hybrid p-bass and I am going to use the blue series, as they claim to be a little warmer than the black series, maybe less tension too.

I think I am finally cured of my DR habit.
 
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