Sadowsky/Warwick Announcement Video

[MAJOR METAL]

You know, I'm hoping this licensing agreement with Warwick helps get a Sadowsky bass back into Metallica. Robert Trujillo has been a long time Warwick artist, I'm hoping Warwick puts a Sadowsky in his hands and brings the immense Sadowsky tone back into Metallica.

 

[GregC]

I've never seen an instrument that I would consider to be anything but low end that was made in Indonesia (I don't think I've ever seen an instrument at all from Vietnam) or China, and I'm certainly no 'aristocrat'. I'm an electrician, and playing music and working on instruments is just kind of a hobby of mine (granted, it's the hobby I most care about by far). Pretty far from an aristocrat.

Modern manufacturing processes have made entry-level instruments much better than like 20 years ago, but they haven't made them no longer entry-level. People can pretend all they want that they're just as good as instruments that cost 6 times as much. They're not. The gap just isn't as vast as it once was.

Lakland Skylines have been made in Indonesia for more than a decade. And they’re definitely not low-end in my experience.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

Lakland Skylines have been made in Indonesia for more than a decade. And they’re definitely not low-end in my experience.

No, not low end. Maybe I should change my wording. They aren't rock-solid, pro-level instruments like their American counterparts. They're not even American Standard Fender-level. I've owned all three.

The way I see it, there's really good stuff and there's not really good stuff. Those two classifications make up about 75% of music gear. A small percentage of gear is super bargain-basement stuff, and a smaller-still percentage is stratospheric crazy high-end stuff, but almost everything else is good enough to get the job done but may or may not be solid, slick, smooth, reliable, great-sounding, tour-ready equipment. I've never played anything built in the far east that falls into the latter camp in my opinion, though plenty of it is TOTALLY better than most of us truly need.

I've also never played a Sadowsky, likely never will, and have only ever seen one up close. I know enough about them, however to know that they're superb. I see no reason to tarnish their immaculate reputation by starting to compromise on quality, which I assure you they'd be doing by starting production in China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc. No one has ever wanted a 700-dollar Sadowsky (unless by that we mean a real Sadowsky that happens to be 700 bucks).

 

[Reedt2000]

My G&L tribute L2500 is a killer bass. Doesn't feel cheap at all. If the war-dowsky imports have a similar level of quality I'd pick one up

 

[SgtHulka]

Modern manufacturing processes have made entry-level instruments much better than like 20 years ago, but they haven't made them no longer entry-level. People can pretend all they want that they're just as good as instruments that cost 6 times as much. They're not. The gap just isn't as vast as it once was.

You couldn't be more wrong. There are not only lower-end instruments produced in Indonesia or the Far East. There are a ton of well-respected and very high-end instruments being produced out of Indonesia and the Far East that cost well in excess of $3,000. Not only that but even Rodger Sadowsky himself said that the Metro series, which is made in Korea is virtually identical to the Americans instruments and that he couldn't tell the difference himself otherwise if there wasn't anything written on the headstock.

Time to open up your mind pal not everything revolves around your own memories about things.

 

[KaseOfBass]

Not only that but even Rodger Sadowsky himself said that the Metro series, which is made in Korea is virtually identical to the Americans instruments and that he couldn't tell the difference himself otherwise if there wasn't anything written on the headstock.

Well, in fairness, you’re also wrong - the MetroLine series has never featured instruments made in Korea. That series, as well as the pre-Warwick Metro Express models, were made in Japan.

 

[gwangi]

Hey speaking of Japanese Metros, everybody needs to check out over at Link Removed they have some of the last Japanese Metros in stock!!!!

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

You couldn't be more wrong. There are not only lower-end instruments produced in Indonesia or the Far East. There are a ton of well-respected and very high-end instruments being produced out of Indonesia and the Far East that cost well in excess of $3,000. Not only that but even Rodger Sadowsky himself said that the Metro series, which is made in Korea is virtually identical to the Americans instruments and that he couldn't tell the difference himself otherwise if there wasn't anything written on the headstock.

Time to open up your mind pal not everything revolves around your own memories about things.

That's where you're wrong, and I'm not your 'pal'. I form opinions based on what I can touch, smell, see, hear, and taste. I've yet to see a truly high quality far-east-made instrument. I don't expect to. If I lived there, I'm sure I would've, but since every one I've ever seen has been from a manufacturer based elsewhere, it's always been budget-minded and inferior.

Manufacturers use those plants for one reason: dirt-cheap labor. Dirt-cheap labor puts out inferior work. Workers who are caring and knowledgeable enough not to put out inferior work find a way to better themselves and make what they're worth, they're not working in those plants.

I've never played or even seen one of the import Sadowsky instruments, but I have seen, played, and/or worked on just about literally every other company's far-east offerings. While the distance between them and quality instruments is most certainly shrinking, and many of them are perfectly functional and would serve 90% of the musical community faithfully for many years without fail, they simply aren't what an American, European, etc.-made instrument is.

If Roger Sadowsky said there was no difference, not only was he paying his US-made line quite a slight, he was also lying.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

Well, in fairness, you’re also wrong - the MetroLine series has never featured instruments made in Korea. That series, as well as the pre-Warwick Metro Express models, were made in Japan.

I'm glad you knew that, because I didn't. Japan's manufacturing quality is every bit the equal of USA, and if that's where they're made I'm sure they are essentially the same as their American counterparts.

 

[mmon77]

I've never played or even seen one of the import Sadowsky instruments

So you're just guessing.

 

[baxter_x]

Not only that but even Rodger Sadowsky himself said that the Metro series, which is made in Korea is virtually identical to the Americans instruments and that he couldn't tell the difference himself otherwise if there wasn't anything written on the headstock.

That's because those Metro you are talking about were actually made in Tokyo. Nowhere else.

 

[ElMon]

That's where you're wrong, and I'm not your 'pal'. I form opinions based on what I can touch, smell, see, hear, and taste. I've yet to see a truly high quality far-east-made instrument. I don't expect to. If I lived there, I'm sure I would've, but since every one I've ever seen has been from a manufacturer based elsewhere, it's always been budget-minded and inferior.

Manufacturers use those plants for one reason: dirt-cheap labor. Dirt-cheap labor puts out inferior work. Workers who are caring and knowledgeable enough not to put out inferior work find a way to better themselves and make what they're worth, they're not working in those plants.

I've never played or even seen one of the import Sadowsky instruments, but I have seen, played, and/or worked on just about literally every other company's far-east offerings. While the distance between them and quality instruments is most certainly shrinking, and many of them are perfectly functional and would serve 90% of the musical community faithfully for many years without fail, they simply aren't what an American, European, etc.-made instrument is.

If Roger Sadowsky said there was no difference, not only was he paying his US-made line quite a slight, he was also lying.

To your point in bold ...

That doesn't tell the whole story. The cost of labor is 'dirt cheap' as compared to the US, but relative to the scale of their economy, a CNC Programmer/Master Machinist (insert any other skilled labor job) makes a decent wage for those set of circumstances. And ... and this is crucial as someone around manufacturing for over a decade ... I can no longer state that those machined parts/cast items are by default inferior to what you get from a machine shop in the US.

The parts I've seen coming in from China since I've been at my most recent gig for 3 years are amazing. 100% within tolerance, and we're talking some parts that have some tricky features (machining a 1/64th thru-hole with a clean chamfer on a miniscule shaft for instance) that every single shop I've used in the US could not do.

If that's possible in those industries, it's possible elsewhere, provided you have a well-trained workforce with a good quality system (ISO/Lean/etc)

To your point, I personally haven't seen this play out with musical instruments.

I've owned too many Japanese Metros, in all the gear-swapping, tone-chasing adventures I've had. My two NYC Sadowsky basses are incomparable, and all the basses I end up flipping are reflective of that. The features I have on my main player ... brazilian RW fingerboard, heavy ash body with a P shape ... are to me worth the NYC premium. There's something extra there in the neck carve/feel.

But ... I have heard a lot of local guys just killing it on Sire/overseas Lakland/Japanese Metros/Indonesian Ibanez basses. They get a solid bass tone live that works for what they're doing. Do I hear a drop off in pitch clarity on the lowest B-string notes and a cheaper, more chunky feel in the instruments in the times I've gotten to check those basses out? Yeah. But that might not be the case for their playing/tastes.

I'm looking forward to getting ahold of a Chinese, ash/maple Verdine White PJ5. I've owned 3 Japanese Metros and 2 NYC's in that configuration, and I will be brutally honest if they don't match up or are subpar.

 

[baxter_x]

To me you can get a great to from pretty much any high end instrument. I own both NYC and Metro basses. I owned both Us and Indonesian Laklands. In both cases the tone is the same. The main difference is the finish, and craftmanship. That's where the difference in price is. Is it the price difference worth it? To me, yes.

 

[monkeyland]

I'm glad you knew that, because I didn't. Japan's manufacturing quality is every bit the equal of USA, and if that's where they're made I'm sure they are essentially the same as their American counterparts.

Where they WERE made. The formerly Japanese Metroline is now being moved to the Warwick factory in Germany. The formerly Japanese MetroExpress line is being moved to the Warwick factory in China.

I own both a Japanese Metroline 4 string and a NYC 5 string. I view them as equals, the difference being that the NYC has more features to it that make it more valuable. I, like basically everyone else, have not seen the Chinese MetroExpress instruments, but I'm excited to have the option to keep one around for the hot, sweaty, salty gigs that we often play here in Southwest Florida, and to kick around the house with. Just having an inexpensive option that has the basic neck profile and body shape that I like, along with the Sadowsky preamp, seems like a great addition to my stable. I am well aware that there's no chance that the Chinese bass will replace either of my current Sadowsky basses

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

To your point in bold ...

That doesn't tell the whole story. The cost of labor is 'dirt cheap' as compared to the US, but relative to the scale of their economy, a CNC Programmer/Master Machinist (insert any other skilled labor job) makes a decent wage for those set of circumstances. And ... and this is crucial as someone around manufacturing for over a decade ... I can no longer state that those machined parts/cast items are by default inferior to what you get from a machine shop in the US.

The parts I've seen coming in from China since I've been at my most recent gig for 3 years are amazing. 100% within tolerance, and we're talking some parts that have some tricky features (machining a 1/64th thru-hole with a clean chamfer on a miniscule shaft for instance) that every single shop I've used in the US could not do.

If that's possible in those industries, it's possible elsewhere, provided you have a well-trained workforce with a good quality system (ISO/Lean/etc)

To your point, I personally haven't seen this play out with musical instruments.

I've owned too many Japanese Metros, in all the gear-swapping, tone-chasing adventures I've had. My two NYC Sadowsky basses are incomparable, and all the basses I end up flipping are reflective of that. The features I have on my main player ... brazilian RW fingerboard, heavy ash body with a P shape ... are to me worth the NYC premium. There's something extra there in the neck carve/feel.

But ... I have heard a lot of local guys just killing it on Sire/overseas Lakland/Japanese Metros/Indonesian Ibanez basses. They get a solid bass tone live that works for what they're doing. Do I hear a drop off in pitch clarity on the lowest B-string notes and a cheaper, more chunky feel in the instruments in the times I've gotten to check those basses out? Yeah. But that might not be the case for their playing/tastes.

I'm looking forward to getting ahold of a Chinese, ash/maple Verdine White PJ5. I've owned 3 Japanese Metros and 2 NYC's in that configuration, and I will be brutally honest if they don't match up or are subpar.

I agree about CNC machining, it is what it is. All the money's in the neck and how it's finished, and any Chinese (or other far east country) made instrument that anyone expends the cost to import to the States simply won't have the feel that a US/German/Japanese/etc. instrument has. It can't, otherwise (with the shipping costs) it would be cheaper to make it here. Those hand finishing skills are expensive anywhere in the world. Manufacturers build those instruments where they do to save money and for no other reason. More power to them, I just won't be purchasing those products.

 

[ElMon]

I agree about CNC machining, it is what it is. All the money's in the neck and how it's finished, and any Chinese (or other far east country) made instrument that anyone expends the cost to import to the States simply won't have the feel that a US/German/Japanese/etc. instrument has. It can't, otherwise (with the shipping costs) it would be cheaper to make it here. Those hand finishing skills are expensive anywhere in the world. Manufacturers build those instruments where they do to save money and for no other reason. More power to them, I just won't be purchasing those products.

I do wonder, keeping in mind what you said, if at that price point we'll get that Japanese Metro level of quality. If Roger and his associates pull that off, I'll be impressed, because you're right, it's still the same equation of shop hours, units per hour/day vs the costs of labor/insurance/etc.

Same thing here in the states, going back the the machining thing. If cost wasn't an issue, the older machinists I have worked with can turn out parts on a lathe/mill that beat out the multi-million dollar CNC. When I needed a prototype to show to a potential customer, that's always how we did it.

 

[Jamarvic]

I’m eager to see what Warwick can do with the Metro Express, fit and finish wise. A little QC goes a long way. My only concern is the body wood, I prefer alder or ash, maybe basswood, not a mahogany guy.

 

[Loepie]

I’m eager to see what Warwick can do with the Metro Express, fit and finish wise. A little QC goes a long way. My only concern is the body wood, I prefer alder or ash, maybe basswood, not a mahogany guy.

Body wood is Okoume. According to Roger: "At the NYC Custom shop, we have used Okoume as a lightweight body wood for many years and have always loved its tone".

 

[Jamarvic]

Body wood is Okoume. According to Roger: "At the NYC Custom shop, we have used Okoume as a lightweight body wood for many years and have always loved its tone".

Right, it’s a type of mahogany. Not my preference for tone wood, but I can’t say I wouldn’t like it until I tried it.

 

[bass12]

Right, it’s a type of mahogany. Not my preference for tone wood, but I can’t say I wouldn’t like it until I tried it.

It’s not a type of mahogany and it has always bothered me that the Sadowsky shop refers to it as such.