SansAmp RBI vs RPM

[Thunder Pulse]

for sure I run the effected RBI signal into the FX Send.
Have checked that numerous times. When I set this rig up last summer plugging into the FX return gave no sound.

We really need to get to the bottom of this, because it simply doesn't make sense. An output has to go to an input and vice-versa. Can you post a nice close-up picture of your setup?

 

[Chronicle]

Works for me too.

 

[JGR]

Chronicle - sorry man.....no hum in my rig

JGR - for sure I run the effected RBI signal into the FX Send
Have checked that numerous times. Works for me. In fact if I recall correctly, when I set this rig up last summer plugging into the FX return gave no sound.

To the other posters that say they are running a RBI and a RPM....one word......dammit! Why must you cause me more GAS pain!!

i think that is why you are getting so much hum then. be careful you don't cook/overload something.

JR

 

[JGR]

Cool. I'll be gigging mine tomorrow. I've been running RBI --> RPM --> power amp, but putting the RPM in the RBI FX loop 50/50 is a good idea; I'll have to try that out eventually.

if you get a chance, try running the other way around too, plugging into the RPM - it has a higher imput impedance which changes the flavor a bit.

are you running the RBI unaffected or effected out into the RPM? just curious - both ways would work, but the unaffected would give you a 50/50 parallel mix while the effected would put them in series (actually, 50% RBI and 50% RBI series into RPM).

cheers,

JR

 

[Chronicle]

if you get a chance, try running the other way around too, plugging into the RPM - it has a higher imput impedance which changes the flavor a bit.

are you running the RBI unaffected or effected out into the RPM? just curious - both ways would work, but the unaffected would give you a 50/50 parallel mix while the effected would put them in series (actually, 50% RBI and 50% RBI series into RPM).

cheers,

JR

Just curious, how about running both the Sansamp and GK in a mixer?

When I do the ways you tell me JGR, it still hums..

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

We really need to get to the bottom of this, because it simply doesn't make sense. An output has to go to an input and vice-versa. Can you post a nice close-up picture of your setup?

I will try to grab a pic of my rig this weekend. It's at our jam spot. I will also try going into the FX return but I am pretty sure I tried that to no avail.

I have had no issues with hum, excess noise or anything like that. My rig is pretty durn quiet considering all the stuff I use as part of my set up.

 

[JGR]

Just curious, how about running both the Sansamp and GK in a mixer?

When I do the ways you tell me JGR, it still hums..

yeah, ground loops can be a problem when using multiple amps. i was amazed how seamlessly the RPM and RBI worked together.

you can run multiple preamps into a mixer - rane makes a nice one that would be ideal for that - but combining a preamp with another amp is a bit more tricky if they don't come with the necessary input/outputs.

JR

 

[Fuzzbass]

if you get a chance, try running the other way around too, plugging into the RPM - it has a higher imput impedance which changes the flavor a bit.

are you running the RBI unaffected or effected out into the RPM? just curious - both ways would work, but the unaffected would give you a 50/50 parallel mix while the effected would put them in series (actually, 50% RBI and 50% RBI series into RPM).

cheers,

JR

Right now I'm running them in series (mono). Thanks for the additional suggestions: I'll try putting the RPM first, in addition to the 50/50 configs.


P.S. Now that I've switched from my NV610 back to my pair of HS210 cabs, I have the option of running them in stereo. So many different ways to play 'em... it wobbles the mind!

 

[JOE EDO]

Just back from the show. Band a a great night! Oh-yes The RBI and RPM did their job in spades! The 610 HLF sounded really "Jucy" with both pre's carefully mixed. I just had to take the cover off my road case to look at my settings. Mind you this was a big room..20 foot ceilings..a bands and bassist worst nighmare! Used the Spector NS5XL all night.

Primary RBI - Drive 9:00,Presence 11:00,Blend 1:00, Mid 5:00, Bass 12:00, Treble 1:00, Level 9:00

RPM - Drive 8:00, Mid 3:00, Mid Shift 1500 HZ, Blend 12:00, Bass 12:00, Treble 1:00, Level 3:00

Slight bass boost on the Spector active pre (The Haz Lab pre).. DR Low Riders..just made me smile all night. Rich, tubey like burp, with a nice amount of lows (booty). The mids had such a richness about them... I cound never get that with my SVT4Pro. I can't think or remember the last time my bass sounded that good on stage. Bit of irony..I had my SVP Pro on Ebay the past few days....sold tonight with the "Buy It Now" option. Bass God's were with me tonight. Can't wait to get the rig set up in the house tomorrow morning and play it again! Thanks guys!

 

[JGR]

Just back from the show. Band a a great night! Oh-yes The RBI and RPM did their job in spades! The 610 HLF sounded really "Jucy" with both pre's carefully mixed. I just had to take the cover off my road case to look at my settings. Mind you this was a big room..20 foot ceilings..a bands and bassist worst nighmare! Used the Spector NS5XL all night.

Primary RBI - Drive 9:00,Presence 11:00,Blend 1:00, Mid 5:00, Bass 12:00, Treble 1:00, Level 9:00

RPM - Drive 8:00, Mid 3:00, Mid Shift 1500 HZ, Blend 12:00, Bass 12:00, Treble 1:00, Level 3:00

Slight bass boost on the Spector active pre (The Haz Lab pre).. DR Low Riders..just made me smile all night. Rich, tubey like burp, with a nice amount of lows (booty). The mids had such a richness about them... I cound never get that with my SVT4Pro. I can't think or remember the last time my bass sounded that good on stage. Bit of irony..I had my SVP Pro on Ebay the past few days....sold tonight with the "Buy It Now" option. Bass God's were with me tonight. Can't wait to get the rig set up in the house tomorrow morning and play it again! Thanks guys!

very nice! glad it's working out for you.

 

[Fuzzbass]

So, I gigged mine last night. In short, I love the RBI/RPM rig.

In the future I'm going to experiment with different wirings that JGR suggested, but for this gig I left the preamps in series with the RBI first. I set the RBI for sparkle (using Presence), and then used the RPM for low mid punch and growl (with the sweep mid). Well, that's the way it naturally worked out, I didn't necessarily plan it.

Both preamps had a smidge of grit dialed in: subtle at first, but by the end of the night when the band's volume was loudest the overdrive became more noticeable... not into outright fuzz or anything. It sounded great regardless. Note that I dialed down the tweeters on my Berg HS cabs just a bit... -3dB on the top one, and more than that on the bottom.

I used both basses shown. The hot rod Benavente was first; it has a J-bass flavor to it. For the final set I used the Sadowsky, which has the one split-coil P-bass pickup. Both sounded great, and I barely changed the settings from one to the other.

Settings

RBI:
Drive - 9:30
Presence - 12:00
Blend - 1:00
Bass - 12:00
Mid - 2:30
Treble - 1:00

RPM:
Drive - 9:30
Mid - 4:00
Shift - 10:00 (300Hz?)
Blend - 12:00
Bass - 12:00
Treble - 12:00

 

[oli@bass]

IMO, the presence is actually a weak point of the RBI. it is boost only and way overly agressive.

and

i would say that the RBI can get clanky very easily if you aren't careful with the presence control though - it's voiced way too agressive and a lot of the range isn't useable IMO.

and

My guess is that the "dark" references must be based on the combination of the fixed upper-midrange & especially the Presence knob of the RBI/Bass Driver - that thing can be brutal if not kept in check. The RPM doesn't have the Presence knob like the RBI/Bass Driver does - I do not miss it to be quite honest.

and

Clanky bass sounds are utterly disgusting and I haven't ever found use for a presence knob

and

be careful with the presence control - i wouldn't run it past noon and i find off to about 9-10 o'clock is better.

the presence control is indeed unique on the RBI and adds a certain crispness that you can't entirely duplicate with EQ since it's tied to the gain control rather than part of the tonestack. overall, it's a bit too aggresive for me, but it has its place if used conservatively.

I've had about the same opinion until recently. Then I tried something really drastic for a change:

Cutting the treble all the way and dialling in presence, even way beyond 12 o'clock opened up a new uncharted area of tone possibilites! If added in large amounts, the presence control does not only add treble (by adding overtones) it starts to add a different type of overdrive than the drive control.
Both together get you the amounts of overdrive that many think is lacking on the RBI! And it sounds even more like an old tube head, e.g. a HIWATT, at workout. And IMO, that setting does not sound clanky or harsh, but yields a nice warm yet metallic sound similar to putting on a fresh stainless steel strings. Growly and punchy with ringing overtones.

My current setting is:
- drive @ 11 o'clock
- presence @ 3 o'clock
- bass @ 12 o'clock
- mid @ 1 o'clock
- treble @ 8 o'clock
- mixed at 50/50 with the pure tone

I'm digging it

 

[JGR]

and



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I've had about the same opinion until recently. Then I tried something really drastic for a change:

Cutting the treble all the way and dialling in presence, even way beyond 12 o'clock opened up a new uncharted area of tone possibilites! If added in large amounts, the presence control does not only add treble (by adding overtones) it starts to add a different type of overdrive than the drive control.
Both together get you the amounts of overdrive that many think is lacking on the RBI! And it sounds even more like an old tube head, e.g. a HIWATT, at workout. And IMO, that setting does not sound clanky or harsh, but yields a nice warm yet metallic sound similar to putting on a fresh stainless steel strings. Growly and punchy with ringing overtones.

My current setting is:
- drive @ 11 o'clock
- presence @ 3 o'clock
- bass @ 12 o'clock
- mid @ 1 o'clock
- treble @ 8 o'clock
- mixed at 50/50 with the pure tone

I'm digging it

+1

I've tried that as well with similar results to what you describe. The presence does have a unique effect on the OD since it is coupled to the Sansamp circuitry, at it will be less harsh at lower blend settings since it only works on the effected portion of the signal.

JR

 

[Fuzzbass]

I've had about the same opinion until recently. Then I tried something really drastic for a change:

Cutting the treble all the way and dialling in presence, even way beyond 12 o'clock opened up a new uncharted area of tone possibilites! If added in large amounts, the presence control does not only add treble (by adding overtones) it starts to add a different type of overdrive than the drive control.
Both together get you the amounts of overdrive that many think is lacking on the RBI! And it sounds even more like an old tube head, e.g. a HIWATT, at workout. And IMO, that setting does not sound clanky or harsh, but yields a nice warm yet metallic sound similar to putting on a fresh stainless steel strings. Growly and punchy with ringing overtones.

My current setting is:
- drive @ 11 o'clock
- presence @ 3 o'clock
- bass @ 12 o'clock
- mid @ 1 o'clock
- treble @ 8 o'clock
- mixed at 50/50 with the pure tone

I'm digging it

Cool idea, I'll have to try that myself.


That said, I've never had a problem with the presence control. IMO it (and the RBI overall) gets a bad rap because a lot of users forget that presence is boost-only. I usually have presence in the 10-12 o'clock range, but I also keep blend around 50%.

 

[Chronicle]

Quick question, i just got the Sansamp FSP for my RPM-- what kind of cable do you need to connect it? Instrument cable isn't doing it :x

 

[ElizabethC]

Chronicle, are you still running into the same buzzing/humming problem that you mentioned above a few days ago? If so, would you mind if I ask what your settings on the RPM are? I run a SansAmp RBI with a GK 700RB-II in the same way that you and Geddyfleaharris do; and, when I first got my RBI and tried out this setup, I experienced noise problems similar to what you are describing. But, after talking with Lloyd at Tech 21 and changing my settings accordingly, the abnormal hum/buzz noise went away completely. (And I didn't change where/how I plugged in/powered the RBI.) So, if the 3-to-2-prong-converter option doesn't fix the problem, changing your settings might be the solution...

 

[Fuzzbass]

Quick question, i just got the Sansamp FSP for my RPM-- what kind of cable do you need to connect it? Instrument cable isn't doing it :x

Instrument cable should work. The RPM and RBI have Footswitch In and Footswitch Out jacks. Forgive me for asking, but are you sure you've plugged into the right one? I think you need to use the Footswitch In.

 

[Chronicle]

Chronicle, are you still running into the same buzzing/humming problem that you mentioned above a few days ago? If so, would you mind if I ask what your settings on the RPM are? I run a SansAmp RBI with a GK 700RB-II in the same way that you and Geddyfleaharris do; and, when I first got my RBI and tried out this setup, I experienced noise problems similar to what you are describing. But, after talking with Lloyd at Tech 21 and changing my settings accordingly, the abnormal hum/buzz noise went away completely. (And I didn't change where/how I plugged in/powered the RBI.) So, if the 3-to-2-prong-converter option doesn't fix the problem, changing your settings might be the solution...

Hm well it might be my GK making the noise now. I'm bringing it to GC to test out cables/cabs.

 

[attackbass]

one question.

If i'm happy with the tone with my floor pbddi unit should I just go with the RBI? I like a light rich tube growl bit of grit to my sound, which i get with pbddi or is the RPM capable of this sound and more, due to its more musical eq.. my only concern with the RPM is the drive.. if it might be too full on and not provide me with that subtle tube growl?


But if the RPM is capable of this tone and a more versatile beast I'd be happy to pay the extra money for the bigger choice in tones available... jsut in case i join a ruch tribute band

 

[playibanez]

one question.

If i'm happy with the tone with my floor pbddi unit should I just go with the RBI? I like a light rich tube growl bit of grit to my sound, which i get with pbddi or is the RPM capable of this sound and more, due to its more musical eq.. my only concern with the RPM is the drive.. if it might be too full on and not provide me with that subtle tube growl?


But if the RPM is capable of this tone and a more versatile beast I'd be happy to pay the extra money for the bigger choice in tones available... jsut in case i join a ruch tribute band

i would say just roll off the drive untill you get the sutble overdrive, but i dont own the rpm

i do however own the rbi. and i have the blend and drive set full right now. with mids boosted.

it gets an amazing barky tube grit/slight overdriven sound. (i do use a graphic eq to put back in the mid freq that the rbi takes out, its a little mid scooped as others say)