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SBO 2022 - GMC Basses #9: Back to the beginning
- Thread starter GMC
- Start date
I like a drink or two, but I don't like to be drunk…I felt quite "out of place" by 9pm. I think I was the only sober guy left in the city!it's quite baffling how so many people can drink so much. Curiously, I didn't see any trouble.
We spent most of Sunday at Lytham St Annes, which was very civilised.
Back to my SBO project. I was a bit limited for time today due to work commitments and the crazy 38 degree heat that the UK is currently experiencing.
I removed the clamps from the lower body horn blank and rand the edges through various sanding processes to neaten up the sides. The two black veneer / pin stipes are looking really nice. I finished the fretboard radius and deepened the fret slots, removed it from the jig and inspected it. It's also looking very nice.
I also neatened the sides, edges and curves to my new 4 string headstock MDF template and did the same to my new body shape MDF template.
I removed the clamps from the lower body horn blank and rand the edges through various sanding processes to neaten up the sides. The two black veneer / pin stipes are looking really nice. I finished the fretboard radius and deepened the fret slots, removed it from the jig and inspected it. It's also looking very nice.
I also neatened the sides, edges and curves to my new 4 string headstock MDF template and did the same to my new body shape MDF template.
Glued up the upper horn plates and veneers. I'll leave that over night to set.
Even your work in progress pics are better photographs than when I spend half an hour trying to get a great photo. Obviously photo nerds like you and @JParsons got it goin' on. 
I unclamped the upper body horn and cut out the scribed rough shape using my bandsaw. Then I ran the edges along my sanding machine / disc sander. This is great for removing the band saw marks quickly and squaring up the edges of the piece. I then noticed that I had a glue line that was still soft and oozing some glue. So I added some more glue and clamped it...only top find that caused other areas to release! So i added a lot more glue in the newly opened areas and re-clamped. I think I'll leave this to set for a few more days before I unclamp it again!
I've seen this before. Water based glues like titebond tend to dry quickly around the edges where they are exposed to air but slower inside where the moisture has to be absorbed by the surrounding wood. This is especially the case with added veneers where the glue/wood ratio is high.
Your solution looks good
, adding glue around the edge and clamping it for a few more days should leave you with a good glue joint.
I've seen this before. Water based glues like titebond tend to dry quickly around the edges where they are exposed to air but slower inside where the moisture has to be absorbed by the surrounding wood. This is especially the case with added veneers where the glue/wood ratio is high.
Your solution looks good
Yes, very good point. I think you are right about multi layers involving veneers, as with glue on both faces the veneers are basically soaked. I tend to leave glue joints clamped up much longer than I did in my early days. I'd rather leave a piece clamped up for an extra day, just to be safe. Especially if the weather is cold and or the humidity high.
I think your right. I think 1" Padauk plates are surprisingly resistant to the water content of the Titebond glue, more than say ash or maple. Like you said, the areas that had air contact were more cured than the centre of the panel. The centre still looked quite wet and uncured.I've seen this before. Water based glues like titebond tend to dry quickly around the edges where they are exposed to air but slower inside where the moisture has to be absorbed by the surrounding wood. This is especially the case with added veneers where the glue/wood ratio is high.
Your solution looks good
I took the clamps off today and sanded / neatened the edges. I love a good sanding station...it really takes out the labour for sanding down the sides. Although I'm envious every time I see a flat bed Drum sander and the 1m Linisher belt sanders. Both of which have staggeringly jumped in price over the last year. I get by with what I've got!
Thanks, I used to be a professional photographer. So that helps a lot. It's amazing how much can be done with a Canon 5DmkIII and a 24-70 f2.8 L. Second hand, not too pricey compared to what they lot cost me new.Even your work in progress pics are better photographs than when I spend half an hour trying to get a great photo. Obviously photo nerds like you and @JParsons got it goin' on.
I got a lot accomplished today. Seeing as most of my G clamps are in use making sure the body laminates are setting firmly...it was a day some neck attention. A day for loud routing and covering the workshop in loose maple chippings.
First up, I made a new 34" neck template from MDF. The I attached the fingerboard to it using double sided carpet tape. I then used my laminate trimmer bit in my router table to trim down the fingerboard. I've undercut the width, so it's about 1.5mm on each side too wide. I'll take this down later. Soz, no pictures of this, I forgot to shoot any. Maybe I'll take some tomorrow when I'm clearing up the workshop space.
I then re-checked my bandsaw table and blade to be square and rip cut the top of the headstock angle. Not a bad cut with the rip blade and pretty close to 90' too. I then re-checked my sanding station for squareness, and sanded the top face of the headstock mostly flat. Again, I've left 1.5mm for later sanding.
I then removed the fingerboard from the template and attached the same template to the top of my neck, where the fingerboard will go. I then made 4-5 passes with my table router and cut the neck width taper in readiness for the fingerboard. Again, slightly undercut...so I have some sanding width to play with. Once I had cut as deep as I could with the template, I removed the template and continued routing the depth until I had routed the entire depth that this neck will use. The remainder of the block (the un-sized piece) I'm keeping for another project later in the year.
This routing went really well and it means a lot less work when I cut the neck depth out in a few days. I'm leaving this task until after I've glued the fingerboard to the top surface of the neck. This way I'll have a flat and consistent surface to clamp against. So, glue the fingerboard in place and then cut the neck profile and back of the headstock.
I re-drew the headstock shape onto the top surface of the headstock. I then cut some extra wings for the headstock width and machined them to size. I tried them up and they look good. An exact match for grain, grain direction and pattern. Soon, I can glue them on permanently. Once I have some free clamps!
First up, I made a new 34" neck template from MDF. The I attached the fingerboard to it using double sided carpet tape. I then used my laminate trimmer bit in my router table to trim down the fingerboard. I've undercut the width, so it's about 1.5mm on each side too wide. I'll take this down later. Soz, no pictures of this, I forgot to shoot any. Maybe I'll take some tomorrow when I'm clearing up the workshop space.
I then re-checked my bandsaw table and blade to be square and rip cut the top of the headstock angle. Not a bad cut with the rip blade and pretty close to 90' too. I then re-checked my sanding station for squareness, and sanded the top face of the headstock mostly flat. Again, I've left 1.5mm for later sanding.
I then removed the fingerboard from the template and attached the same template to the top of my neck, where the fingerboard will go. I then made 4-5 passes with my table router and cut the neck width taper in readiness for the fingerboard. Again, slightly undercut...so I have some sanding width to play with. Once I had cut as deep as I could with the template, I removed the template and continued routing the depth until I had routed the entire depth that this neck will use. The remainder of the block (the un-sized piece) I'm keeping for another project later in the year.
This routing went really well and it means a lot less work when I cut the neck depth out in a few days. I'm leaving this task until after I've glued the fingerboard to the top surface of the neck. This way I'll have a flat and consistent surface to clamp against. So, glue the fingerboard in place and then cut the neck profile and back of the headstock.
I re-drew the headstock shape onto the top surface of the headstock. I then cut some extra wings for the headstock width and machined them to size. I tried them up and they look good. An exact match for grain, grain direction and pattern. Soon, I can glue them on permanently. Once I have some free clamps!
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It's a reminder to myself that i can never have too many clamps. Ultimately, what's going to slow me down is my ability to glue and clamp another piece of work. It seems the this particular piece of Padauk needs 4-5 days of curing time. On hind sight, I wish I'd used a thin epoxy or maybe hide glue.
I removed the clamps from the body wings, the glue drips are looking nice and solid. So it's a good indicator that the internal surfaces are drying well. I'm not going to machine these for 3-4 days so they can continue to cure.
I gave the underside of fingerboard a final 120 grit sand and I did the same for the top surface of the neck, where the fingerboard is going to be a fixed. I took off the masking tape from the top surfaces that will be glued. I put a healthy layer of glue on the neck top surface, applied the fingerboard and clamped with all my clamps, just with a 18mm fillet of MDF in between to protect the finished surfaces. I'll leave this for a few days to cure.
I gave the underside of fingerboard a final 120 grit sand and I did the same for the top surface of the neck, where the fingerboard is going to be a fixed. I took off the masking tape from the top surfaces that will be glued. I put a healthy layer of glue on the neck top surface, applied the fingerboard and clamped with all my clamps, just with a 18mm fillet of MDF in between to protect the finished surfaces. I'll leave this for a few days to cure.
I've left the body wings for about 4 days. Today i removed the camps and sanded the glue over spill off. I inspected the joints. They are looking good but the glue is still a little soft in a few places, so I gently re-clamped them for a few more days. One these are fully cured and I know the glue has hardened, I can round over the edges.
I removed the clamps from the finger board and that's looking really nice.
I'll let this settle for a few more days to fully cure and then cut out the underside of the neck and headstock.
I removed the clamps from the finger board and that's looking really nice.
I'll let this settle for a few more days to fully cure and then cut out the underside of the neck and headstock.
What glue are you using? If it's still soft after 4 days could be there's something wrong with it?
I'm using Titebond Original, which as a product, I've been using for about 10 years. This was a new / fresh bottle bought from Axminster in February. I used to use standard white PVA. It's thinner and easier to apply. However, I had a bad experience with it when gluing on a Cocobolo fingerboard. It glued fine and was stable for about 3 weeks until the glue reacted with the oils in the board and turned to orange powder. The fingerboard literally fell off. I then used 2 part epoxy and I haven't used PVA since.
I suspect the water content in the glue is being trapped by the oily nature of the Padauk, causing a slower than normal cure time. It's getting there, but taking a lot longer than usual. I think that the three veneers, each with a glue layer is adding to the normal amount of glue / liquid in between the Padauk plates. With something like a laminated neck beam, the depth of wood is only 2.5", where as on a body seam it's a much wider surface area. Nearly 6" across. the only place for the moisture to escape is through the wood line / veneer or through the Padauk. Something like maple, the nature of the wood itself lets the moisture breathe. However with these pieces of Padauk, I'm not so lucky. I suspect that these pieces of Padauk are moving / warping slightly due to the large amount of moisture in the glue. I suspect that the moving glue line is partly due to the wood trying to move. Once fully cured, the moisture content should even out the wood movement should stabilise. Until then...it's staying under a few clamps a bit longer.
Back in the day when I was building my early basses, I used to rent a wood workshop one evening per week. Anything I needed to glue and clamp would be left for the following week. So I never experienced these kinds of issues. I think the old workshop was a lot drier too.
I've had a lot of comments over the years for my long glue and clamp times...one guy saying anything over night is "bonkers". My experience is that here in the UK, using UK sources lumber and glue...anything over a minimal cross sectional width of 6" needs abut a week.
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From a progress point of view, today's effort was a great success. However, from a workshop point of view...I had a few challenges. I wanted to cut the underside of the neck blank today. It's an easy task for my bandsaw and rip blade and I've done this for every bass that I've built. With a fairly fresh blade, the saw cuts like cheese. My speed of cut is determined by my accuracy, not the bandsaw's ability to chomp through the cross cut of the wide beam of laminated hardwood. The cut started well, but soon I had a lot of resonance and the bearings were screaming. I was finding the line was weirdly wandering and very hard to control. Once though, I inspected the cut and it was awful, sloppy and looked like it had been done by hand. The line was very wavy along the line but on it's other axis too...way off vertical. I was very disappointed and perplexed. I'd checked the table angle before I cut too. Then I noticed one of the bandsaw Bearing holders had broken. I think this happened when I made the turn curve from completing the line to back of the headstock to the start of the neck line. I think this can be epoxied.
The state of the cut meant a LOT of machine sanding where I could.
Here's the next strange thing, the long belt of my Sanding machine broke...never done that before! I usually replace it because it's loosing effectiveness.
So I then clamped the neck beam to my workshop table and got out my hand planes. I had quite a stressful day yesterday at work and I could work off some of my pressure! I work in IT for my day job...all of my stress comes from the human elements...never the IT.
I've still got a few Mils on each side of the neck taper to trim down and the neck profile is still oversized (even with the sloppy cut and remediation earlier). So I have plenty more to take down. I also marked out the neck carve lines. I'll probably fit the frets before I carve the back of the neck.
So I finished with a fairly decent neck cut out. A reasonably parallel headstock, the sides of the neck are tapered and I have a LOT of wood shavings.
The state of the cut meant a LOT of machine sanding where I could.
Here's the next strange thing, the long belt of my Sanding machine broke...never done that before! I usually replace it because it's loosing effectiveness.
So I then clamped the neck beam to my workshop table and got out my hand planes. I had quite a stressful day yesterday at work and I could work off some of my pressure! I work in IT for my day job...all of my stress comes from the human elements...never the IT.
I've still got a few Mils on each side of the neck taper to trim down and the neck profile is still oversized (even with the sloppy cut and remediation earlier). So I have plenty more to take down. I also marked out the neck carve lines. I'll probably fit the frets before I carve the back of the neck.
So I finished with a fairly decent neck cut out. A reasonably parallel headstock, the sides of the neck are tapered and I have a LOT of wood shavings.
