Scale degree number when the root is not the lowest note.....

[BluesWalker]

That was my point about having E# instead of F going to F# in The Thrill is gone. Also, nobody likes to see ## or bb for no reasons but musically they make sense when used properly in the right musical context.

I avoid them if at all possible.

 

[Creede]

I think the question stems from the fact that scale degrees have different names when they're an octave up (9th instead of 2nd). Unfortunately, it would be pretty inconvenient to use scale degree names like "-maj3" or the like.

 

[Mushroo]

My editor is Productions d'Oz which is big in classical music and Europe. I write all my material with Finale and then give it to them for the lay-out.

Classical has different notation conventions from jazz, as you rightly point out. I am a big Bach fan, and he certainly never shied away from using lots of accidentals. There is one composition where he uses a musical theme based on the letters of his name: B A C H (Bb A C B) so that should make us all feel better this is not some crazy new fangled 21st century concept.

 

[stringtapper]

The missing component here is the idea of octave equivalence, which means that if you're giving abstract labels to pitches in the music the understanding is that the note could theoretically be played in any octave. So ^5 is ^5 whether it's played above or below ^1, because the label "^5" is only telling you it's function.

The other issue I see in the OP is that he's calling his labels "scale degrees" but then he uses "R", which is not a scale degree label, it's a chord tone label for the Root of a chord. So there's some conflation of scale degree and chord tone labeling going on here.

I've seen this before where people get the concepts of root and tonic mixed up. Every chord in a key will have its own root, but there is only one scale degree ^1 in a key.

 

[albertofrog]

In standard notation, '8va' is used to indicate a note played an octave higher, and '8vb' is used to indicate a note played an octave lower.
I often write charts in Nashville numbers and use 8va/b to show where the root of the chord is for any given scale degree..

Link Removed

 

[Groove Master]

I avoid them if at all possible.

I know what you mean but there are some situations where the double alterations are the right things to write

 

[Mushroo]

Sure, it's an old debate, for example when writing a Cdim7, do you write Bbb because it is "correct" or A because it is easier for some people to read? I've seen both in practice, though you can probably guess my preference would be to write Bbb.

 

[belacqua16]

Hi Malcolm, you could add a dot or a dash (as in the example) above or below the symbol.

 

[Lowness]

This has probably been said (can't read everything) though you are confusing root notes with scale degrees.

The two ideas are different.

What you are calling R is 1 or Tonic when discussing scale degrees.

The concept of R is used when discussing chords.

 

[Mushroo]

This has probably been said (can't read everything) though you are confusing root notes with scale degrees.

The two ideas are different.

What you are calling R is 1 or Tonic when discussing scale degrees.

The concept of R is used when discussing chords.

So I'm clear, are you saying that B is not the "tonic" of the song "The Thrill Is Gone"? If it's not B then which note is it? Thanks.

 

[Lowness]

I think the song is in Bm - I can't remember.

If so, B is the tonic or scale degree 1 of the Bm scale, in which the song is written.

Scale degree 3 is a D, the associated chord is a Dmajor - the root of the Dmajor chord is a D.

 

[Lowness]

I think the song is in Bm - I can't remember.

If so, B is the tonic or scale degree 1 of the Bm scale, in which the song is written.

Scale degree 3 is a D, the associated chord is a Dmajor - the root of the Dmajor chord is a D.

Confusingly, if you play a 1 chord, the Bm, then the Bm root = scale degree 1 (or tonic) of the Bm scale.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

The song, The Thrill is Gone, on page 72 of Ed's Hal Leonard Blues Bass is in the key of D. The progression is:
Bm7, %, %, %
Em7, %,Bm7, %
Gmaj7, F#sus4, Bm7, Bm7

The song is built on a minor blues progression. All our discussions have to do with the first measure of Bm7.

As the OP I've had my question answered, time to move on.

 

[Mushroo]

Confusingly, if you play a 1 chord, the Bm, then the Bm root = scale degree 1 (or tonic) of the Bm scale.

I actually don't think any of us were that confused by it actually. But thanks for the insight!

 

[Mushroo]

The song, The Thrill is Gone, on page 72 of Ed's Hal Leonard Blues Bass is in the key of D. The progression is:
Bm7, %, %, %
Em7, %,Bm7, %
Gmaj7, F#sus4, Bm7, Bm7

The song is built on a minor blues progression. All our discussions have to do with the first measure of Bm7.

The song is most definitely not in the key of D. Lowness, I stand corrected.

 

[Lowness]

The song, The Thrill is Gone, on page 72 of Ed's Hal Leonard Blues Bass is in the key of D. The progression is:
Bm7, %, %, %
Em7, %,Bm7, %
Gmaj7, F#sus4, Bm7, Bm7

The song is built on a minor blues progression. All our discussions have to do with the first measure of Bm7.

As the OP I've had my question answered, time to move on.

It is Bm - Bm is the realitive minor of D.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

The song is most definitely not in the key of D. Lowness, I stand corrected.

The key signature is two ##. Last time I checked that puts it in the key of D. True the song uses the minor chords for the progression.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Oops, that damn relative minor. My bad.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Well call it D if you like.

It is structured based on the relative minor - this is the easy way to think about it.

Your logic also implies there was a no such thing as a minor key.

Could be as I play Country and Praise and the music we play is always major. I do think in major and minor seldom enters my thoughts.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

That was my point about having E# instead of F going to F# in The Thrill is gone.