Scales

[AngelCrusher]

Hey guys/gals. I was going to start learning the major and minor scales.

Ok, so if I learn all 12 scales for both major and minor (24 total, of course), I really don't understand how they will apply to songs I will/am playing.

In other words, I can't see a song where all you do is run the scale over and over again throughout the entire song. I'm assuming that variations of the scale will be used during different parts of a song. This stuff is confusing!

Do you (yourself) strategically (and consciously) apply major and/or minor scales when playing songs or do you just memorize the notes to the songs? That is all I have done (so far) when learning songs... just memorizing the notes and then executing.

I feel like an idiot about this whole thing... like I am missing the point, entirely. Sorry if this is a terrible question. Thanks in advance for any insight.

You got a ton of advice in here and it gets confusing, especially when people break out charts and graphs.

Here’s what I would do - Don’t worry about scales just yet. Learn chord tones first. It is easier and very very musical. Look up the shape of Cmaj7, Cmin7,C7 to start. And play each one just learning what the heck you are playing. Learn why the chord is composed of these 4 chord tones - I,III,V and VII.

Now play each shape for each key,The good news is they are the same shapes. Just make sure you say each note when you play it.

Finally, start working through songs with changes and just play all 4 notes in each chord before going to the next one. Start with easy stuff like Cmin7 to F7 Bbmaj7.

Now try and connect the chords in different ways using only the notes on each chord. Make sure you think of each note by name when you play it and also know what chord tone it is.

This will develop your ear and really help you out. Do this for a few months and then come back to scales.

The main reason I suggest chord tones first is you will learn how to be musical with your note selection. Musicality is incredibly important. Running up and down scales is not musical at all. When you get to where you see scales as extensions of the chords you are playing, you will be able to play scales in a much more musical way and they will also make sense to you.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I understand the notes... I just don’t analyze it to death, like “root/fifth”, “four chord”... chord tones??? I know what notes I’m playing. That’s it.

So, I guess the question is, do you wanna know that stuff?
Do you want to put in a little effort to know that stuff?

You know some of it already if you already know your scales.
C scale, C is the first note of the scale and is the One of the scale and chord tone. D is the second note of the scale or the two and so forth. If you play a song that starts on C that's the One chord, the first note of the scale. If you go to an F chord that's the fourth note in the scale so that chord is the four chord and so on. Not analyzing to death just, understanding what you are already doing...

 

[Kipp Harrington]

You got a ton of advice in here and it gets confusing, especially when people break out charts and graphs.

Here’s what I would do - Don’t worry about scales just yet. Learn chord tones first. It is easier and very very musical. Look up the shape of Cmaj7, Cmin7,C7 to start. And play each one just learning what the heck you are playing. Learn why the chord is composed of these 4 chord tones - I,III,V and VII.

Now play each shape for each key,The good news is they are the same shapes. Just make sure you say each note when you play it.

Finally, start working through songs with changes and just play all 4 notes in each chord before going to the next one. Start with easy stuff like Cmin7 to F7 Bbmaj7.

Now try and connect the chords in different ways using only the notes on each chord. Make sure you think of each note by name when you play it and also know what chord tone it is.

This will develop your ear and really help you out. Do this for a few months and then come back to scales.

The main reason I suggest chord tones first is you will learn how to be musical with your note selection. Musicality is incredibly important. Running up and down scales is not musical at all. When you get to where you see scales as extensions of the chords you are playing, you will be able to play scales in a much more musical way.

I’m not following this. Sorry.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I’m not following this. Sorry.

What’s confusing?

Can you play the 4 notes in a Cmaj7 chord?

Even simpler - can you play the 3 notes in a Cmaj chord?

 

[Kipp Harrington]

So, I guess the question is, do you wanna know that stuff?
Do you want to put in a little effort to know that stuff?

You know some of it already if you already know your scales.
C scale, C is the first note of the scale and is the One of the scale and chord tone. D is the second note of the scale or the two and so forth. If you play a song that starts on C that's the One chord, the first note of the scale. If you go to an F chord that's the fourth note in the scale so that chord is the four chord and so on. Not analyzing to death just, understanding what you are already doing...

How is this supposed to help me as a bass player? I really don’t understand the importance of this.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I just don’t get it. Scales and modes, theory, etc. If knowing a scale doesn’t mean anything, what good is that? This all seems so unnecessary. I’ve written songs on guitar (decent songs) without any knowledge of this stuff. It’s just all so technical and cold.

Nope, no more than saying I'm just going to talk, not gonna write or read.
Too much effort. It's just all so technical and cold...

 

[Kipp Harrington]

What’s confusing?

Can you play the 4 notes in a Cmaj7 chord?

Even simpler - can you play the 3 notes in a Cmaj chord?

C, E and C (plus the open strings, G and E). Those notes make a Cmaj chord. What are you getting at?

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Nope, no more than saying I'm just going to talk, not gonna write or read.
Too much effort. It's just all so technical and cold...

True

 

[DJ Bebop]

C, E and C (plus the open strings, G and E). Those notes make a Cmaj chord. What are you getting at?

So, you know that. Then what are you running from? You say knowing that doesn't help you?
If you understand what notes make up a chord and what chords are used in a song. You know what notes you can draw from to make your patterns to play your bass.

 

[AngelCrusher]

C, E and C (plus the open strings, G and E. Those notes make a Cmaj chord. What are you getting at?

I am getting at this - you just named 3 of the 7 notes in a Cmaj scale. I am simply suggesting adding the 7th (Cmaj 7), which is a B.

Go to this site Link Removed and pick Cmaj7. It will drone the chord.

Now play C,E,G and B. Play those notes all over the neck if you can. You are now playing the most important notes over that chord.

You said this is confusing and hard. I am simply giving you an option. Learn the 4 main notes for each chord instead of worrying about scales. Once you get to scales, you will already know more than half the scale just from doing this.

These are called chord arpeggios. I would suggest learning this first before worrying about scales. It’s simpler, and these notes are the most important notes to play over each chord anyway.

Do you know the location of all the notes on your bass neck yet?

 

[Kipp Harrington]

So, you know that. Then what are you running from? You say knowing that doesn't help you?

I don’t get the connection between the guitar chords and bass notes, other than the roots and transitions (climbs/descents/passing notes) from one chord to another.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

I am getting at this - you just named 3 of the 7 notes in a Cmaj scale. I am simply suggesting adding the 7th (Cmaj 7), which is a B.

Go to this site Link Removed and pick Cmaj7. It will drone the chord.

Now play C,E,G and B. Play those notes all over the neck if you can. You are now playing the most important notes over that chord.

You said this is confusing and hard. I am simply giving you an option. Learn the 4 main notes for each chord instead of worrying about scales. Once you get to scales, you will already know more than half the scale just from doing this.

These are called chord arpeggios. I would suggest learning this first before worrying about scales. It’s simpler, and these notes are the most important notes to play over each chord anyway.

Do you know the location of all the notes on your bass neck yet?

No, not all. I mean, it’s easy enough to figure out if I can take a few seconds. But that’s unrealistic.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I don’t get the connection between the guitar chords and bass notes, other than the roots and transitions (climbs/descents/passing notes) from one chord to another.

Because it's the chord tones in the guitar chords that we draw our bass patterns from and by knowing that we can form bass lines.

 

[AngelCrusher]

No, not all. I mean, it’s easy enough to figure out if I can take a few seconds. But that’s unrealistic.

Not sure what you are saying here man, can you rephrase?

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Because it's the chord tones in the guitar chords that we draw our bass patterns from and by knowing that we can form bass lines.

What do you mean by “chord tones”... notes that make up a chord?

 

[AngelCrusher]

What do you mean by “chord tones”... notes that make up a chord?

Yes. Chord tones are notes that make up a chord.

Cmaj - C, E, G
Cmaj7 - C, E, G, B

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Not sure what you are saying here man, can you rephrase?

I can locate the notes on the fretboard ok. Like E, A, D... just not entirely over the fret board; especially in reference to the D and G strings.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Yes. Chord tones are notes that make up a chord.

Cmaj - C, E, G
Cmaj7 - C, E, G, B

Ok... that’s one thing made more clear

 

[DJ Bebop]

What do you mean by “chord tones”... notes that make up a chord?

Yes, the note that makes up a chord. The first third fifth sixth seventh eighth notes of a scale are also chord tones.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I can locate the notes on the fretboard ok. Like E, A, D... just not entirely over the fret board; especially in reference to the D and G strings.

ok. You need to practice man. I’m not sure how else to sugar coat it.

Step 1 - learn every note on your bass. Cheat code - the same note is always 2 frets up and 2 strings up. So a G on the 3rd fret of your big E string is on the 5th fret of your D string. Hopefully that makes sense.