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Scary Neck Repairs: Two Wal Necks

If you are wondering, the main reason for the glue isn't to help hold the frets down. It's there to completely fill the slot around the fret, sealing it up against moisture.
It also provides the added bonus of lubrication when pressing the frets in. It makes the entire insertion process smoother whether you're using a beefy arbor press, a hammer or any of the smaller press options (based upon Vise-Grips or clamps), especially on very hard, brittle woods like ebony.

Any aliphatic resin glue will work fine because, as Bruce says, it's not really serving as an adhesive so Titebond or even plain old Elmer's white glue will all serve the same purpose and they'll all provide lubrication in the process.
 
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Fascinating read Bruce! Great write up! I actually had a Wal neck overhauled too and it was quite the journey. Very happy with it though!

As far as the SIMS leds, typically there is a resistor that is added in the body. I actually swapped it out to a higher value with one of my basses since it was super bright and wanted to tame it down a bit.
 
Any aliphatic resin glue will work fine because, as Bruce says, it's not really serving as an adhesive so Titebond or even plain old Elmer's white glue will all serve the same purpose and they'll all provide lubrication in the process.

Yeah, but I prefer the LMI glue because it fully hardens in gaps. Other aliphatics like Titebond I don't fully harden if there's any thickness. They stay rubbery. I don't really want that around the frets.
 
I am loving this thread. I feel like I'm getting a free Luthier's course by reading through it. Thanks so much for taking all the extra time involved with publishing your work and process. Truly invaluable stuff! ❤️

That's why I'm documenting this. I'm showing owners of exotic basses that they can be repaired, and what the process is. And I'm also trying to encourage other Luthiers to take on jobs like this. I'm showing them that it isn't that difficult or much different than working on a Fender. Once you've seen what's inside.
 
I use the syringe to lay down a thin bead of LMI glue in the slots. I did 4-6 slots at a time, allowing a few minutes for the glue to sink down into the slots. If you are wondering, the main reason for the glue isn't to help hold the frets down. It's there to completely fill the slot around the fret, sealing it up against moisture. An important step in keeping a neck stable in varying weather conditions.
i'm all about gluing in frets for better stability and maybe even tone but i've always been scared of water-based glues like aliphatic or even hide/fish glue, i worry that the water might swell the surrounding wood enough to possibly throw off the leveling afterwards. i go with thick CA in the slot (a trick i learned from terry mcinturff) because i know it will gap-fill, seal against outside moisture, introduce no water to the equation and dry nice and brittle

so you don't notice any "squirrely" changes in neck curvature from added moisture in the glue, and as that glue dries and the moisture goes away? that kind of glue certainly is easier to use and clean up

also, sadly LMI is shutting its doors, my current mostly full and fresh bottle of their wood glue will be my last :(

anybody know anything about titebond 50?
 
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so you don't notice any "squirrely" changes in neck curvature from added moisture in the glue, and as that glue dries and the moisture goes away?

No, I've never noticed any swelling around the joints when using LMI glue. Definitely not when gluing in frets. The glue does a better job of sealing up the ebony than adding moisture. It's a fairly thick glue, not a lot of water in it.

Yeah I quickly ordered a couple of bottles of the LMI glue before they ran out. I believe that LMI has said that they are going to reveal the company that they were having make the glue for them. And the formula/specs. Hopefully, that company will be willing to sell it directly. Maybe with an LMI label?
 
I've been very busy here, but I am making some progress on finishing up these two Wal necks:

IMG_9995B.jpg


Finishing up the new fretwork. The first step is to carefully file the ends of the frets down to flush with the sides of the fingerboard. The neck is clamped sideways in the vise. I do this by hand using a special customized file. It's a 10" Smooth Single Cut Flat file, and I've ground the teeth off along the two edges. This is so that the corners won't dig into the fingerboard. This file is made up just for the job of trimming the ends of frets.

It takes some patience. Long straight strokes, only pushing down on the frets. I bring the ends of the frets down to flush, barely skimming the side of the fingerboard.

IMG_9996B.jpg


All the way down both sides of the neck. This is Mike's neck. On the other side, I had to be especially careful not to touch the LED's and take a chance on damaging them.

Speaking of the LED's, I had a visit this week from Simon Thorn, who is the long time pickup maker and Guitar Tech for Steve Howe. A nice English chap with lots of knowledge. Yes is on tour here in the US and was here in Los Angeles. Ellis, who is a young Tech that I've been working with lately, is on tour with Yes as the Bass Tech. While they were in town, Ellis brought Simon over meet me and see the Secret Underground Lab. Several hours of great deeply technical conversation.

Simon knows the guys at Sims and Wal, and I showed him these Wal necks, and asked about the Sims system. While we were talking, he texted a friend of his at Sims and asked a few questions.

He confirmed that you really shouldn't apply a bare 9v battery across the terminals of the LED system. There should be some resistor in the circuit, like SteveCS said. It's not critical how much, just something to limit the current.
 
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Several hours of great deeply technical conversation?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that one!

Hah! Ellis was! He's a young guy, building up his skills as a Tech and Luthier. He got to stand there and listen to Simon and I talking in deep technical detail about bass structures, pickup design, shaping tone, special tools, etc. He was soaking it all in. We should have recorded it.
 
More fret work on Mike's neck:

IMG_9997B.jpg


In the last session, I finished up the first step, which was to gently file the ends of the frets down to flush with the sides of the fingerboard. Here's a close-up view. The tangs are filed flush with the ebony. That's important.

IMG_9998B.jpg


The next step is to file the bevels on the ends of the crowns of the frets. The same big flat file, but tilted at about a 40 degree angle. Carefully.

IMG_9999B.jpg


Then I smooth out the surfaces of those beveled ends with a #4 Swiss file and a Medium oilstone. This takes the file marks out of the flat surfaces on the bevels.

IMG_0001B.jpg


The Combi-Flap wheel slightly rounds the edges of the bevels of the frets while also slightly rounding the edge of the fingerboard, and blending them together. This makes the neck feel like it's been played for 10 years, worn in.

IMG_0002B.jpg


Polishing up the edge of the fingerboard with 400 paper, grey Scotchbrite, and white Scotchbrite. Like I did on the surface of the fingerboard.

IMG_0003B.jpg


And that finishes the ends of the frets. All that's left is leveling, crowning and polishing.
 
More fret work on Mike's neck:

View attachment 5241301

In the last session, I finished up the first step, which was to gently file the ends of the frets down to flush with the sides of the fingerboard. Here's a close-up view. The tangs are filed flush with the ebony. That's important.

View attachment 5241302

The next step is to file the bevels on the ends of the crowns of the frets. The same big flat file, but tilted at about a 40 degree angle. Carefully.

View attachment 5241303

Then I smooth out the surfaces of those beveled ends with a #4 Swiss file and a Medium oilstone. This takes the file marks out of the flat surfaces on the bevels.

View attachment 5241304

The Combi-Flap wheel slightly rounds the edges of the bevels of the frets while also slightly rounding the edge of the fingerboard, and blending them together. This makes the neck feel like it's been played for 10 years, worn in.

View attachment 5241305

Polishing up the edge of the fingerboard with 400 paper, grey Scotchbrite, and white Scotchbrite. Like I did on the surface of the fingerboard.

View attachment 5241306

And that finishes the ends of the frets. All that's left is leveling, crowning and polishing.


Bruce, I know you've talked about it before but what grit is that Combi Flap wheel and do you specifically make that groove in the middle before you use it or is that from natural wear?
 
Several hours of great deeply technical conversation?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that one!
I visited Bruce at the Secret Underground Lab back in the fall and I can tell you firsthand, after about 2-1/2 hours of deeply technical conversation, that Bruce is extremely generous with his knowledge and experience not to mention great company. If a second veteran guitar tech had been added to that meeting it might have been a lot like what Ellis got to enjoy - and my brain might have melted.
 
Bruce, I know you've talked about it before but what grit is that Combi Flap wheel and do you specifically make that groove in the middle before you use it or is that from natural wear?

Hey Matt;

I think that Combi-Flap wheel is 240 grit, but in my experience the grit doesn't really matter much. I've used 180, 240, 320 and 400 grit wheels, and they all do about the same job here. The Scotchbrite flaps seem to take it up to same level of polish, regardless of the sanding grit.

The groove is worn in there from years of use. It wouldn't hurt to get a groove started on a new wheel, by holding it against the corner of a scrap board. That will help you keep the Combi-Flap wheel guided on the corner of the fretboard.

For any of you who are curious about using Combi-Flap wheels like this, I went over it in detail in this old thread all about different techniques for finishing the ends of frets:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/perfectly-rounded-fret-ends.1330475/
 
I visited Bruce at the Secret Underground Lab back in the fall and I can tell you firsthand, after about 2-1/2 hours of deeply technical conversation, that Bruce is extremely generous with his knowledge and experience not to mention great company. If a second veteran guitar tech had been added to that meeting it might have been a lot like what Ellis got to enjoy - and my brain might have melted.

I always enjoy long technical discussions about engineering and building basses, and tools and the history of industrial processes. That's my social life. I am a genuine modern-day Mad Scientist. Or Mad Luthier. Or something like that. My entire life is about being here in my shop with my machines, inventing and building more machines!
 
Finishing up the frets on Mike's Wal neck.....

IMG_0027B.jpg


The first step is to gently drag a Sharpie across the tops of all of the frets. It makes a dark blue line across the crown, and makes it easier to see where the crowns are being ground during the leveling.

IMG_0028BX.jpg


Leveling the frets. I use this special custom tool, an aluminum bar with six 320 grit grinding stones attached to the bottom edge. I wrote a thread over on Luthier's Corner about how to make and use these. I'm gently sliding the bar over the frets lengthwise along the neck, following the string paths and fanning in between. It's very important to follow the string paths, angling the bar to match the string spacing taper.

I grind the tops of the frets just enough that I can see that every fret is being touched by the stones. I'm looking for a thin shiny line in the middle of that black Sharpie line, on every fret. That's what fret leveling is all about, making all the frets exactly the same height.

By the way, the fret leveling is done with the truss rod tightened to about 40%.

IMG_0029BX.jpg


After the frets look like they are leveled, I go over them with a Norton Medium Oilstone, in gentle strokes along the length of the neck. This takes the grinding scratches on the frets up from 320 grit to about 800 grit.

IMG_0030B.jpg


You can't see it too well in this picture, but the frets all have narrow shiny flat lines along the tops of them. The widths of the flat lines vary with how high or low the fret was in relation to the others. I carefully check them all to make sure every one has been leveled, all the way across.

IMG_0031BX.jpg


Then I use the Norton oilstone again, sliding it lightly across the width of the neck. This turns the 800 grit grinding scratches along the line of the frets, so you can barely see them.

IMG_0032B.jpg


Crowning the frets: I go over each fret with a Stew-Mac Crowning File, on the narrow size edge. A crowning file has a small concave groove shape. Sliding it over the fret grinds the sides of the curved crown, making that little flat surface on the top narrower. The goal is to make all the little shiny flat lines very narrow and equal.

IMG_0033B.jpg


Polishing the frets: I use a Dremel-type tool with a rubberized abrasive fret polishing disk. On stainless frets, I only use the Very Fine disk, which leaves the frets at a semi-shine. Going over them again with an Ultra Fine disk will take them up to looking almost like chrome. I personally don't like the frets to be that shiny on most instruments.

The fingerboard is protected by a stainless guard plate, held down by two strips of black electrical tape. I polish the frets one at a time, lifting and moving the guard down the neck.

IMG_0034B.jpg


Then wipe off the grinding dust and the Sharpie residue, and pass the fingerboard over the ebony buffing wheel one more time.

IMG_0035B.jpg


I reinstalled the tuners and the brass nut. A quick check in the nut slot heights, using a thin 6" machinist's rule. With it resting in the slot and on the 3rd fret, I'm looking for a small gap of 0.003"-0.005" at the 1st fret. The nut appeared to be fine in relation to the new frets. I didn't need to do any filing of the slots. The nut is glued down with two drops of CA glue.

IMG_0037B.jpg


And it's done! Ready to go back in service. Mike contacted me and he was in a town nearby for the week. So he drove down and picked it up in person today. We chatted about Wals and I showed him around the Lab.

For your reference, the total bill was $240. It was about 5 hours' work, not a difficult job at all. Any competent Luthier should be able to do what I did here on this neck.

Coming up: Finishing up the fretwork on Alex's Wal neck. Same things I just did on Mike's neck.
 
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Great work Bruce! I have questions! :help:

By the way, the fret leveling is done with the truss rod tightened to about 40%.

As someone who is learning to do their own fret leveling, this confuses me a bit. Does the 40% tightening mean that's what it took to get this particular neck perfectly straight? Aren't we supposed to get the fingerboard as flat as possible before leveling the frets?

Or, does this imply that we should do our fret leveling with the same amount of tiny relief that we would dial in with the bass all strung up?

And while we're on the topic Bruce, what do you think of leveling frets with the strings at full tension, using those new under-string fret levelers, like the StewMac ones? Wouldn't that theoretically be a great way of doing it?
 
Great work Bruce! I have questions! :help:



As someone who is learning to do their own fret leveling, this confuses me a bit. Does the 40% tightening mean that's what it took to get this particular neck perfectly straight? Aren't we supposed to get the fingerboard as flat as possible before leveling the frets?

Or, does this imply that we should do our fret leveling with the same amount of tiny relief that we would dial in with the bass all strung up?

And while we're on the topic Bruce, what do you think of leveling frets with the strings at full tension, using those new under-string fret levelers, like the StewMac ones? Wouldn't that theoretically be a great way of doing it?

Both of your questions are really the same subject. We've covered it extensively in a few other threads. Here's a quick summary:

The overall goal is: With the neck up to full tune, and the relief and action set correctly, the truss rod should end up at about 50% tight. That's very important in making the neck stable. And, believe it or not, having the truss rod partly tight also plays a part in getting the best sound out of the bass. You don't want the truss rod to be either too loose or fully tight when the bass is in playing setup.

It's important to have the truss rod about halfway tight while you cut and surface the fingerboard, and again while you level the frets. In that condition, strings off and truss rod at 50%, the neck should be straight and flat. If it isn't, then you correct it by leveling the fingerboard and/or the frets....While keeping the truss rod half way tight. Don't adjust the truss rod to make the neck flat, just to make it easier to level the frets. That defeats the whole purpose.

After you've made the neck level and flat with the truss rod half tight, assemble it and pull the strings up to tune. The neck should pull forward into a small amount of relief, in a correctly shaped curve. If the neck is built well, that relief should be in the range of what you want. But, you can adjust the truss up or down a small amount to dial it in. The truss rod remains in the range of halfway tight with the bass up to full tune. That's the goal.

Neck Tensioning Jigs take this up another level. That's where you mount the neck in a fixture that loads it up as if it had strings on it at full tune. And you also pre-tension the truss rod. You hold the neck in full working loaded condition while doing the final precise leveling of the frets. These rigs are complicated. I developed out a nice neck tensioning process back in the '90's and used it for a few years on my Scroll Basses. That's a big subject covered in other threads.

A PLEK machine does a variation on neck tensioning, but using a computer and math and a CNC grinding head.

Those Understring Leveling beams are a shortcut way of doing the neck tensioning operation. Using the actual strings. Done carefully, they work pretty well. Done incorrectly, you can make the neck worse.

From my own extensive work with Neck Tensioning, my conclusion is that it isn't necessary in most cases. It can help correct a neck that has problems with lumps or uneven bending. But a well made neck will be accurately level and stable using the process that I used on this Wal. Adding the extra step of Neck Tensioning won't make it any more level or stable. That's why I stopped using it on most of the necks I build. I learned to build them well, and the tensioning operation became excess work that didn't improve anything.
 
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Thank you for re-hashing that Bruce. I've been cutting/pasting many of your posts into a text file. Valuable stuff! :hyper:

Hey, you could edit them into a book and sell it! I wouldn't care, as long as you gave me credit. I have a big folder of text files of many of my TalkBass technical answers. I frequently cut and paste from there to answer common questions. I didn't in this case. I just wrote that post a few minutes ago while taking a break from running a milling machine.