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Schroeder 1210L vs. 2 Acme Low B2

C

crdasilva

Feb 10, 2008
49
0
#1
Hey guys, I've got a GK1001RB II head and can't figure out which option would best suit my needs regarding cabinets.
I've narrowed it down to 1 Schroeder 1210L 4ohm or a pair of Acmes Low B2 8ohm.
I'm curious on how the internal 10" speaker on the 1210 actually feels, or how it's perceived. Does it move more air? Could it get somewhat boomy?
Also, reading about the inefficiency of the Acmes I'm a little concerned about the power that I'd need to run these cabs together. Is the 1001 enough?
I play a Lakland DJ4 with Nordstrand pickups and a J-retro pre-amp and I'm after a very modern sound that would cut thru and be loud enough for most live situations.
Any input is appreciated.
 
#4
I had two B2s at one point and it fried (well, I fried) an Eden 800 with it. And also used a Mackie 1400i power amp, feeding 700 watts to each Acme, and it sounded okay, but never seemed like enough power.

So I doubt you can efficiently drive two Acmes with a 1001 - not even one in my opinion.

I have an 1212L, and it is very efficient and loud using an LMII (500 watts). A 1210 or 1212 with the 1001 should be very nice.

I don't know why you narrowed you choice to one 1210, or two B2s - seems like an unbalanced comparison. The Schoeders would be much lighter also, and easier to transport if you order them with the dolly.

Soundwise, though, the Schoeders are far from flat - they tend do be mid-heavy, which is a good thing to hear yourself when playing live. The B2s are flat in response, and that has been their claim to fame, but I rather have a cabinet with some character than a big inefficient studio monitor.

Sorry to be criticizing B2s too harshly, but I had a very frustrating experience with them, and the 1212L has been nothing but joy.
 
#5
One very simple divider is that the Schroes are famous for how efficient they are while the Acmes are famous for how inefficient they are. So if you're in any way concerned about how "loud" you'll get using the wattage of the GK head, avoid the famously inefficient cabs. OTOH the Acmes are renowned for their relatively flat EQ profile and ability (given enough wattage) to project lower frequencies more clearly and loudly than most other cabs, so if that's important you might want a bigger amp.
 
#6
lefty007 said:
Sorry to be criticizing B2s too harshly, but I had a very frustrating experience with them, and the 1212L has been nothing but joy.
Click to expand...

Different strokes and all, but I've never had anything but amazing experiences with my B2s using amps of 20, 55, 85, 120, 300 and 500 watts mono and 750 and 900 watts stereo. Knowing the design as well as I do, I'd expect your issues weren't the cabinets.
 
#7
bongomania said:
One very simple divider is that the Schroes are famous for how efficient they are while the Acmes are famous for how inefficient they are. So if you're in any way concerned about how "loud" you'll get using the wattage of the GK head, avoid the famously inefficient cabs. OTOH the Acmes are renowned for their relatively flat EQ profile and ability (given enough wattage) to project lower frequencies more clearly and loudly than most other cabs, so if that's important you might want a bigger amp.
Click to expand...

+1... I can't think of two cabs that sound more different, and both IMO and IME describe the extreme endpoints of the cab voicing continuum. The 1210 is very mid punchy, very voiced to the low mids, compressed down low, and quite sizzly up top with the tweet cranked a bit. The Acme cabs have a HUGE low end extension, relatively polite mids relative to the low end, and a very mellow, paper cone sounding top end.

Totally, completely, utterly different. I prefer cabs that sit more in the middle of that voicing continuum, with plenty of bottom but still tight versus 'huge', and plenty of upper mid articulation, with a top end that you can crank enough to cut through in a live setting.
 
#8
JimmyM said:
Which costs less?
Click to expand...

With the two cabs offered and the vast differences between them, this seems to be the least germane question.

As an Acme lover, I'm a certified Schroeder hater. I would assume a Schroeder lover would be an Acme hater. Someone that prefers something in between (like kjung for example) should go for something else. It's kind of like saying I need a partner and I'm not sure if I should hook up with a guy or girl. How can we decide that for you?! :p
 
#9
Kindness said:
With the two cabs offered and the vast differences between them, this seems to be the least germane question.

As an Acme lover, I'm a certified Schroeder hater. I would assume a Schroeder lover would be an Acme hater. Someone that prefers something in between (like kjung for example) should go for something else. It's kind of like saying I need a partner and I'm not sure if I should hook up with a guy or girl. How can we decide that for you?! :p
Click to expand...

+1... they are very, very different cabs, and each sound great in their own way. However, there would be very few people who would like both, and many would not like either.
 
#10
Kindness said:
With the two cabs offered and the vast differences between them, this seems to be the least germane question.
Click to expand...
Not if you saw my latest credit card statements!

I dig what you're saying, though. I'm just not a fan of either downfiring speakers or overly ineffecient cabs, so I took the opportunity to wisenheimer things up. I'll try to do better in the future.
 
#11
bongomania said:
...the Acmes are renowned for their relatively flat EQ profile and ability (given enough wattage) to project lower frequencies more clearly and loudly than most other cabs, so if that's important you might want a bigger amp.
Click to expand...
+1

I have Acme cabs in all three sizes and I dearly love each one of them; but I wouldn't even think of asking a GK1001RB to try to drive two Low-B2s.

Bluesy Soul :cool:
 
#13
+1 to what KJung and others said: those two cabs sound quite different, and you need to figure out what kind of sound you want.

As for the power issue, of course a GK 1001Rb can technically drive two B-2s. In fact, that would be somewhat louder than using that same amp to drive one B-2. It's not as if the cab refuses to work right, or works differently, with relatively modest-sized amps.

But it just still won't be that loud, not compared to other, more efficient cabs you can buy. So a lot depends on your playing situation, in particular what kind of music you play and how loud you need to play. For instance, for many gigs I've done, a 500 W amp with one B-2 has done the job with room to spare. But for others, that definitely would not have cut it. For whatever reason, I've been doing more of the former (i.e., quieter) type recently, but your situation may be quite different.

If you're concerned about volume, you might lean toward the Schroeder, or something else along those lines. Have you considered other options, like Bergantino or Epifani or whatever?
 
#15
I'm going to jump in here as the previous owner of a pair of two 4 ohm Acme B2s who went to a pair of 4 ohm Schroeder1210s.

Two very different beasts. I have to say, I prefer the sound of the Acme at home, when I'm sitting right near the cabinet in relative peace and quiet and can hear all the subtleties that come with a "flat" speaker response.

But in a live setting, it's a different story. As we all know, the world is not flat. :)

With their mid tuning, the Schroeders simply cut through mixes in a way that is technically possible with the Acmes - but at the risk of frying the internal crossover bulb or blowing up a woofer (all of which I did on multiple occasions) from trying to squeeze more volume out of the cabinets.

While I definitely do miss the authoritative notes of the open B string that the Acmes afford you - we're talking serious low end clarity - I have found that the overall usefulness of the Schroeders in a live gigging situation makes for 1) much easier "set up and play" and 2) MUCH less of the fear factor I constantly had about potentially damaging something in the Acmes, which happened more often than I would have liked.
Just my experience.

It really comes down to the application you are planning to use the speakers for. Low to medium volume gigs, uncrowded sonic mixes, EQ flexibility on your bass or in your rack, plenty of power on hand, or you like and are able to hear all the nuances of your instruments, the Acmes are a good bet.

Lonnybass
 
#16
I have both.

I like both.

Yes, they are VERY different, and I use them in very different applications. Acme does small gigs in a less-crowded and lower volume sonic space with a smaller amp, and the Schroeder does big gigs with a big amp and a big cabinet to suppliment the low end it doesn't have.

I would never consider driving 2 Acmes with the GK1001RB. I drive my single Low B2 (4 ohm) with a MarkBass TA501 (500W), and it's okay. Not too loud, but I only use it for smaller gigs.

Plenty has been said about the sound of these two cabs, so I won't reiterate -- it's all true.

Between this pairing of cabs and amps, I'd go with the Schroeder all the way.

Just me $0.02

EDIT: Just read Lonny's post, which came in while I was writing mine. I couldn't agree more. He really nailed it.

EDIT #2: I've also owned a Schroeder 1212. Didn't care for it -- too "dub" for me.



dcr
 
#17
Not to hijack the thread (I'm his friend and I'm trying to help with this choice), how do you guys think the Schroeder 1210 would compare to the Berggies AE210 and HS210? He needs something not too bulky so it won't cost an arm and leg to ship overseas...

Thanks guys.
 
#18
This is an interesting thread. I've used Acme B2's for several years for nearly all gigs, occasionally hauling out the Acme B4. I only recently got into markbass gear and now find myself with a CMD 121p for small gigs with an extension Bergantino 12 for medium gigs. For larger gigs, I'm reserving my Markbass SA450 which is the LMII with a few more knobs, to combine with the B4. At home this combo is loud, though I admit I haven't giged with it yet. We don't play all that loud, mostly weddings and private corporate stuff, and 90% of the time I'm in the PA. So for me, I can't see needing anything more at present. I never tried the Schroeders. I was always and still am very happy with the Acme stuff, but have downsized somewhat as the gigs require.
 
#19
By the way....I was just at Jorg's today and picked up his new 12L. It's awesome! But he has a 15L that is about 35lbs and killer! Jorg's stuff is on the mid-heavy side, but a 15 sounds scooped by nature...so placing a 15 in the magic of a Schroeder cabinet is fantastic..... Still extremely punchy and clear and quick, but not as mid-heavy..... This cab is fantastic!

But to answer your question.....Schroeder all the way. His cabs sound the best in real-life environments. IF you want a clean, transparent cab, go get an Epifani, Accugroove, or Acme. If you want a cab that will make you smile playing with a band....Schroeder.
 

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