- Apr 3, 2003
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dave_bass5 said:
Larry, are you a dealer for other brands as well? If so, can you tell us which lines you carry?
Thanks, Tom.
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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)
- Thread starter SMASH
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Larry, are you a dealer for other brands as well? If so, can you tell us which lines you carry?
Thanks, Tom.
The more you guys talk about Larry being a dealer, the more impact it has on my interpretation of his posts. Whether he is considered a dealer under the CUP or not, I can say that I read his posts differently and with more skepticism since this issue has come to light. IMHO, the undisclosed dealer relationship is the problem, not the nature or content of the posts. Regardless of the good intentions, it just feels wrong. 
I agree with those who pointed out that it would be appropriate to advertise the dealer relationship in the user title.
I agree with those who pointed out that it would be appropriate to advertise the dealer relationship in the user title.
Starting Now.
To Tom, I am only representing Schroeder cabinets. I have no other affilitations for any other cabinets, basses, heads, or anything else musical....and have no interest in doing so.
I've discovered in the past 10 months (more time off than I care to have playing wise as main band broke up in June or so last year) from hearing other bassists around town, that there's what I would call a certain antiquated and archaiec "attitude" that's running fairly rampant here. For every bass player I've seen with a more "medium to upscale" newer type of rig, especially cabinets, there's literally 250 using older stuff many of whom, that combined with the total system they use, just plain outright sound raunchy or can't be heard, to say the least.
There's absolutely nothing sneaky about what I'm trying to do. I go out to the clubs, talk to the bassists, and try to see if they're willing to demo one of my cabinets with the rest of their rigs on one of their future gigs. I do so in the hope that they'll hear that newer may actually make a big difference and really sound better and appreciate someone out there honestly looking out for their tone and sound. I also take my rig to various jam sessions around town and let the house and any other bass players participating in the jam who are interested in trying out my stuff. I do this for free. There's no Demo fee or anything...I shlepp the stuff out and back.
I have always questioned why, other than finances, that gigging bassists in our area seem satisfied with rather medicre tone at best. I have an extremely sincere interest whether you guys care to believe it or not in getting the bass community here in town more attune to the latest heads, cabinets, basses etc. That if they're motivated to sound their best, there are really great options available. Unfortunately, we don't have a major bass only store here and no one store really carries any extensive lines of upper end basses, heads, or speakers. So after being "wowwed" by the Schroeders and an obvious advocate, I pushed the envelope a little and convinced Jorg that I could get the word out here and represent his line (and his line only Tom and others) as best I could...it's an educational experience here too, not just an affordability issue.
Also please remember that I was not made an official dealer until my listing appeared on his website around February 15th. My opinions before that date and after have not changed. Yes, they are biased based on the performance and my first hand direct experience using many, many, and many more different rigs in gigging situations. It has absolutely nothing to do with my being a representative for Schroeder cabinets for the last 2.5 weeks!!! It's a natural extension of how I think and feel a bass should sound like live.
Thanks for your support.
LKaye
theCabZone
Schroeder Dealer
To Tom, I am only representing Schroeder cabinets. I have no other affilitations for any other cabinets, basses, heads, or anything else musical....and have no interest in doing so.
I've discovered in the past 10 months (more time off than I care to have playing wise as main band broke up in June or so last year) from hearing other bassists around town, that there's what I would call a certain antiquated and archaiec "attitude" that's running fairly rampant here. For every bass player I've seen with a more "medium to upscale" newer type of rig, especially cabinets, there's literally 250 using older stuff many of whom, that combined with the total system they use, just plain outright sound raunchy or can't be heard, to say the least.
There's absolutely nothing sneaky about what I'm trying to do. I go out to the clubs, talk to the bassists, and try to see if they're willing to demo one of my cabinets with the rest of their rigs on one of their future gigs. I do so in the hope that they'll hear that newer may actually make a big difference and really sound better and appreciate someone out there honestly looking out for their tone and sound. I also take my rig to various jam sessions around town and let the house and any other bass players participating in the jam who are interested in trying out my stuff. I do this for free. There's no Demo fee or anything...I shlepp the stuff out and back.
I have always questioned why, other than finances, that gigging bassists in our area seem satisfied with rather medicre tone at best. I have an extremely sincere interest whether you guys care to believe it or not in getting the bass community here in town more attune to the latest heads, cabinets, basses etc. That if they're motivated to sound their best, there are really great options available. Unfortunately, we don't have a major bass only store here and no one store really carries any extensive lines of upper end basses, heads, or speakers. So after being "wowwed" by the Schroeders and an obvious advocate, I pushed the envelope a little and convinced Jorg that I could get the word out here and represent his line (and his line only Tom and others) as best I could...it's an educational experience here too, not just an affordability issue.
Also please remember that I was not made an official dealer until my listing appeared on his website around February 15th. My opinions before that date and after have not changed. Yes, they are biased based on the performance and my first hand direct experience using many, many, and many more different rigs in gigging situations. It has absolutely nothing to do with my being a representative for Schroeder cabinets for the last 2.5 weeks!!! It's a natural extension of how I think and feel a bass should sound like live.
Thanks for your support.
LKaye
theCabZone
Schroeder Dealer
I guess i got the wrong end of the stick then.
thought Larry was a dealer for other brands as well
sorry Larry.
thought Larry was a dealer for other brands as well
sorry Larry.
We're all biased to what we like. We wouldn't own it if we didn't like it. It's sure a lot easier to sell something that you believe in. Based on reading Larry's comments, I don't think that he'd sell them if he didn't really like them. I suppose putting "Schroeder dealer" under Larry's name would be appropriate, but either way, it wouldn't change my attitide concerning his posts. If anything it adds validity to his comments. He's heard the Schroeder cabinets in a lot of different situations and although everyones comments are subject to an extent, IMO it makes him more qualified to answer the questions that come up.
Once again, Larry, you make great points.
My only counterpoint, not to say you're wrong, but just to offer another view, is that if a player is happy with that old school thick tone, that should be ok whether you think it's cool or not. Remember, his tone is his tone, and if it's not a modern tone, that's not necessarily bad. There's clearly countless cases of where old school tone worked great, and is still appreciated today... James Jamerson, Bob Glaub, Duck Dunn, Joe Osborne, and the kazillions I'm not mentioning, many of which often even used flats or dead strings...
On the other hand, if he's just plodding along out of ignorance, and you "show him the light", then I have to say good work.
I think the diff is your opinion of the person based on their choice. I THOUGHT (hopefully wrong) you were smashin' on the guys who weren't into what you were into (and, I guess are also selling).
Again, if I'm wrong about your thrust, I'm happy about it.
I should also say I think it can be really good for a dealer to be this enthusiastic about their product line.
My only counterpoint, not to say you're wrong, but just to offer another view, is that if a player is happy with that old school thick tone, that should be ok whether you think it's cool or not. Remember, his tone is his tone, and if it's not a modern tone, that's not necessarily bad. There's clearly countless cases of where old school tone worked great, and is still appreciated today... James Jamerson, Bob Glaub, Duck Dunn, Joe Osborne, and the kazillions I'm not mentioning, many of which often even used flats or dead strings...
On the other hand, if he's just plodding along out of ignorance, and you "show him the light", then I have to say good work.
I think the diff is your opinion of the person based on their choice. I THOUGHT (hopefully wrong) you were smashin' on the guys who weren't into what you were into (and, I guess are also selling).
Again, if I'm wrong about your thrust, I'm happy about it.
I should also say I think it can be really good for a dealer to be this enthusiastic about their product line.
Dangitt. I'd hate to lose posts if they have good stuff in them. I know this is between TB mods and Larry, but just as a question, if he changes his sig or tagline, that will then show up on all posts (obviously). That wouldn't be good enough?James Hart said:
Just catching up with this thread....
The title said "Schroeder cabinets" and all i've seen on the last two pages is a guy(Larry) being slated for being a Schroeder dealer but not saying so on this forum ????? This must be the largest thread on TB and from what I've read so far, next to none of it relates to the title .....
Anyway I'm with Dave on this one, I live in the UK and nobody stocks Schroeder cabs here. If I want one I'm going to have to go on the opinions and reviews on forums like this. If I post a question or want a review, and someone can give a decent answer then great, and in my opinion Larry is in a better position than most to offer advice.
I would have thought a thread on "Schroeder Cabinets" was a place to go to get advise and suggestions for, funnily enough Schroeder Cabinets. If I want answers on Epifani cabs then I'll find the "Epifani Cabinets" thread.
Personally I also think Larry has nothing to gain from giving bias answers, so value his opinion. How many of your guys are going to buy Schroeder unheard, and from Larry in particular. That's the only way he's going to make a buck from the deal. Otherwise, can anyone tell me what he has to gain from this ? So he loves Jorg's cabinets, so what ?
The title said "Schroeder cabinets" and all i've seen on the last two pages is a guy(Larry) being slated for being a Schroeder dealer but not saying so on this forum ????? This must be the largest thread on TB and from what I've read so far, next to none of it relates to the title .....
Anyway I'm with Dave on this one, I live in the UK and nobody stocks Schroeder cabs here. If I want one I'm going to have to go on the opinions and reviews on forums like this. If I post a question or want a review, and someone can give a decent answer then great, and in my opinion Larry is in a better position than most to offer advice.
I would have thought a thread on "Schroeder Cabinets" was a place to go to get advise and suggestions for, funnily enough Schroeder Cabinets. If I want answers on Epifani cabs then I'll find the "Epifani Cabinets" thread.
Personally I also think Larry has nothing to gain from giving bias answers, so value his opinion. How many of your guys are going to buy Schroeder unheard, and from Larry in particular. That's the only way he's going to make a buck from the deal. Otherwise, can anyone tell me what he has to gain from this ? So he loves Jorg's cabinets, so what ?
From what I've gathered here, the 21012 has more bottom end than the 410; but the 410 has more punch than the 21012. Do you equate punch with volume? Is there an overall volume differences between the two? How much of a difference in lows are there between the two cabs?
I bought the 410R over the 21012R because I thought 4 speakers would push more air than 3, and thus be "louder". Thinking I could just add some lows as needed. Last night I had my loud-band gig (3 guitars and Keys), and started thinking about wanting a few more lows. Maybe just the room, though. I'm using a PLX1602/F-1X with the 410, and yes it's plenty loud!!
Your expert opinions please!!
Thank you,
Eternal GAS,
Dave
I bought the 410R over the 21012R because I thought 4 speakers would push more air than 3, and thus be "louder". Thinking I could just add some lows as needed. Last night I had my loud-band gig (3 guitars and Keys), and started thinking about wanting a few more lows. Maybe just the room, though. I'm using a PLX1602/F-1X with the 410, and yes it's plenty loud!!
Your expert opinions please!!
Thank you,
Eternal GAS,
Dave
I created a thread in Paul's Suggestion box, for lack of a better place to my knowledge, for those wishing to continue conversing on the topic of Larry Kaye and his business of selling cabinets.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2776799#post2776799
It's cool if you guys wish to carry on on this topic, but it doesn't need to be within this thread in the Amps forum.
(hope this is useful...that's my intent)
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2776799#post2776799
It's cool if you guys wish to carry on on this topic, but it doesn't need to be within this thread in the Amps forum.
(hope this is useful...that's my intent)
James Hart said:
Yep..and I don't get paid one cent to promote Lakland, Musicman, or any other of Dude's gear. Big difference. When I buy something from Dude, I pay the same price everyone else does. Oh..and I agree that Larry should be able to answer Shroeder questions. Of course you'd want a dealer and a big fan to be able to give his views. How much of your opinion comes from the fact that next to Larry, no one pushes Shroeder harder than you, James?
Ok, this has nothing to do with the cabinets but I thought there were some interesting points of discussion here.
Is "attitude" the correct word to be used here? Why not "preference"?
Sounds like you're the one with the "attitude" Larry. Judging someone else's tone, as well as their playing, is something we ALL do when we see other players. The difference is, we don't ALL go posting about it on bass forums, and try to sell them some new gear that WE happen to like better.
That's very cool, man. I would certainly take advantage of your offer if you were "working my territory". But keep in mind you ain't the "tone police".
There's a lot of reasons besides cost. They might actually LIKE that tone.
Just because you don't doesn't make them wrong.
Or they may not care because A) NOBODY ELSE DOES besides the bass player, B) when it ain't loud enough nobody's gonna hear it anyway, C) when it IS loud enough the sound man gets pissed off and asks us to turn down the stage volume. :scowl:
Or D) in a case like mine, there's backline available most of the time. I've played shows where bands are asked NOT to bring amps because the promoter has provided backline. Granted it's usually insufficient. But in some cases I've been pleasantly surprised to find things like an SVT or a big ol' Marshall cab on the backline. Last week I went back to one of my old bands and found a full stack with a choice of 3 heads in the rehearsal studio. Why should I bother schlepping gear in a case like that? It's F'ing metal, as long as it's loud enough who cares about tone.
And that brings me back on topic. The reason I bought a Schro wasn't for tone, it was to be LOUD ENOUGH.
Again, I think it's a cool thing to offer free demos. I would love to try some other Schro cabs to see the differences in tone. Just remember - nobody likes a tone nazi.
Larry Kaye said:
Is "attitude" the correct word to be used here? Why not "preference"?
Sounds like you're the one with the "attitude" Larry. Judging someone else's tone, as well as their playing, is something we ALL do when we see other players. The difference is, we don't ALL go posting about it on bass forums, and try to sell them some new gear that WE happen to like better.
Larry Kaye said:
That's very cool, man. I would certainly take advantage of your offer if you were "working my territory". But keep in mind you ain't the "tone police".
Larry Kaye said:
There's a lot of reasons besides cost. They might actually LIKE that tone.
Just because you don't doesn't make them wrong.Or they may not care because A) NOBODY ELSE DOES besides the bass player, B) when it ain't loud enough nobody's gonna hear it anyway, C) when it IS loud enough the sound man gets pissed off and asks us to turn down the stage volume. :scowl:
Or D) in a case like mine, there's backline available most of the time. I've played shows where bands are asked NOT to bring amps because the promoter has provided backline. Granted it's usually insufficient. But in some cases I've been pleasantly surprised to find things like an SVT or a big ol' Marshall cab on the backline. Last week I went back to one of my old bands and found a full stack with a choice of 3 heads in the rehearsal studio. Why should I bother schlepping gear in a case like that? It's F'ing metal, as long as it's loud enough who cares about tone.
And that brings me back on topic. The reason I bought a Schro wasn't for tone, it was to be LOUD ENOUGH.
Again, I think it's a cool thing to offer free demos. I would love to try some other Schro cabs to see the differences in tone. Just remember - nobody likes a tone nazi.
James Hart said:says you... If you don't get a little favoritism for your time and energy maybe that is more a reflection of the dealer himself
And you ARE mistaken... if you've got a problem with my posts, report them. I've overstepped no ones bounds.
Oh come on now! I've stayed out of this mess and kept my own personal feelings on this subject to myself until now.
You've flat out suggested that Cheeze is promoting others goods for a personal gain, and then when you found out that dog don't hunt you say "his" dealer doesn't do enough for him? Talk about black kettles and witch hunts! Look back if you must, there are two brands Mr. Cheeze has pushed quite heavily in recent times, and he is NOWHERE NEAR being affiliated with ANY dealer, spammer, or webmaster for those manufacturers.
Yourself and Larry on the other hand, ARE in positions to recieve personal gains from the manufacturers you stuff down people's throats, Larry refusing to disclose this information UNTIL NOW. In this case, a witch was caught was it not? I've seen Larry drag other peoples names into threads and attack them who disagree with him and his biased views, which is beyond lame.
Since you decided to pipe up as well, I might as well add that your constant spamming has been a major detractor and distraction from the products you're trying to push. Bring up the CUP all you'd like, it's obvious you know the boundaries well, and constantly dance all over the line while not technically crossing it (Haven't other users been banned for this in situations other than the CUP?). I for one find it sickening, and while you do in fact represent and push some quality gear, personally I wont be made feel like I am being pushed into trying, buying, or otherwise owning something by someones ulterior motives. It's poor business practice, and reflects badly on those you represent.
Now, while it is obvious I have my opinion (and feel better stating it), this was not meant as a personal attack, and I am sure we're all cool, level headed people otherwise.....so again, nothing personal.
21012 vs. 410 --- lows vs. volume
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've gathered here, the 21012 has more bottom end than the 410; but the 410 has more punch than the 21012. Do you equate punch with volume? Is there an overall volume differences between the two? How much of a difference in lows are there between the two cabs?
I bought the 410R over the 21012R because I thought 4 speakers would push more air than 3, and thus be "louder". Thinking I could just add some lows as needed. Last night I had my loud-band gig (3 guitars and Keys), and started thinking about wanting a few more lows. Maybe just the room, though. I'm using a PLX1602/F-1X with the 410, and yes it's plenty loud!!
Your expert opinions please!!
Thank you,
Eternal GAS,
Dave
Opinions guys?
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've gathered here, the 21012 has more bottom end than the 410; but the 410 has more punch than the 21012. Do you equate punch with volume? Is there an overall volume differences between the two? How much of a difference in lows are there between the two cabs?
I bought the 410R over the 21012R because I thought 4 speakers would push more air than 3, and thus be "louder". Thinking I could just add some lows as needed. Last night I had my loud-band gig (3 guitars and Keys), and started thinking about wanting a few more lows. Maybe just the room, though. I'm using a PLX1602/F-1X with the 410, and yes it's plenty loud!!
Your expert opinions please!!
Thank you,
Eternal GAS,
Dave
Opinions guys?
Dave
Just wanted to say that was my main reason for getting my 1210, that and size were the only important things for my new cab.Metal Mitch said:
I do like the sound but so far i havent got used to it but its a totaly different tone to what i have had for the last 3 years.
It does the job i got it for and in a very short time i will love it but the fact that i can (and have) been told to turn down a bit and it fits in to our car means i am very happy with what i got.i
Now a quick point on the "Larry" situation, if i had been demoing cabs i doubt i would have got the 1210 based on just playing it solo in a shop but if someone had offered me the loan of one to gig with as Larry has been i know i would have got one. it just seems to fit in the mix but cuts through when needed, just like the hype said it would
I have still to open it up at a gig as i only have a ABM300 EVOII but im planing on getting a power amp for the marquee gigs i have coming up. I really look forward to my gigs now as i know people past the dance floor can at last hear me.
Too bad, too. Jorg just told me that my 410L is going to ship (maybe) next week, and I have some interest in the 21012 vs. 410 controversy myself. I've always wondered if the 410 would project a little "harder" - I keep my 21012 tuned more towards the low end and have thought to myself that it DOES appear to be more "forceful" when I adjust the crossover more for top end. That being said, I realize that my hands have the most to say about how my attack projects.
On a personal note, I vote we let the mods settle the dispute via PM's and let us bass players get back to what we come here for - to learn. Despite how I read into anything, I don't know any of your motives for doing anything, and to be honest, I don't care. I personally would appreciate it if you don't waste our time while you vent your personal opinions. Use PM's.
Thanks!
On a personal note, I vote we let the mods settle the dispute via PM's and let us bass players get back to what we come here for - to learn. Despite how I read into anything, I don't know any of your motives for doing anything, and to be honest, I don't care. I personally would appreciate it if you don't waste our time while you vent your personal opinions. Use PM's.
Thanks!
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