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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)
- Thread starter SMASH
- Start date
- Status
joeybcdt said:
Oh cool, it's downloadable. I'll make one of those. Thanks!
Hmm, at $50 it might be worth picking up one or two of the Behringers.
I've actually heard those make really decent overheads! Good idea.
But a $1000 RTA is absolutely out of the question. It's not even appropriate for this job. What would I do, write down the approximate responses and tell you guys about it? I'd be in the test room for days. No, this is a job for software, after the fact.
- Jul 15, 2003
- 901
- 65
- Disclosures
- I am a determined follower of Jesus Christ and am a Mormon.
slombovia said:
it'd be against the TB rules for a builder or dealer to quote time or moneys in a thread. PM or email Jorg or a dealer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 901
- 65
- Disclosures
- I am a determined follower of Jesus Christ and am a Mormon.
James Hart said:it'd be against the TB rules for a builder or dealer to quote time or moneys in a thread. PM or email Jorg or a dealer
..anybody who has ordered one recently could say how long it took.
I didn't want to bother Jorg yet because I am still undecided. (Can't get that Bergie mini stack outta my head.)
Tom H.
lo-freq said:
i used an epifani 310 for 3+years.i always thought it was a nice cab.i bought the 1210 and it is at least as loud as the 310.to me it (the 1210)also sounds rounder and bigger.the biggest difference is on stage,which is where it matters most.there were times i could barely hear myself with the 310epi.im playing some of the same places with the 1210 and have had no problem hearing myself.it seems to cut through on stage better than the 310.the 1210 is also lighter and way easier to lug around than the 310.the 1212-forget it.it blows the epi 310 away volume wise.tone wise you be the judge.i presonally love it.i use the 1212 for outdoor gigs and have yet to feel like i needed more.i usuallu bump up the mids a little(as its a bit smoother and scooped sounding than the 1210) and it sounds huge.ive been told to turn down a time or two actually.i use a stewart 2.1 and while the schroeders are efficient,they really open up with some good power.
as far as specs go,i dont get too wrapped up in it.a manufacturer can advertise whatever they want(within reason).the proof is when you plug em in.if it sounds good to you and it fits your needs,go for it.
Did that cab comparison/testing take place? Any results that people can share? Just curious and couldn't let this thread fade too far into the distance.
Thanks
Thanks
I have a tendency to find something that works and stick with it -- sometimes that's a good thing, but I could sometimes I could be a bit more open-minded and flexible.
The studio one of my bands practices in is a small 14'x16' room and a bit boomy. I've gotten in the habit of cutting the bass control on my SR5 a fair bit.
The last show we did I had some problems from hearing alot of low end on the stage (mostly from the two guitarists), so I kept the bass cut quite a bit during the show.
I talked to another bass player at the 1st break and he said that I could stand to turn up a bit and add some bass boost to the sound (I was not running through the PA). I made some small changes and found a spot on the stage where I could hear myself pretty well. The other bassist left in the middle of the 2nd set, so I didn't get to recheck with him about the sound.
Anyway, at a practice Friday with my other band, I decided to do some more experimenting with the bass settings on my bass and preamp. The acoustics (for bass) are alot better where they practice. I boosted the bass control (centered at 40Hz) on my SR5 about the least amount it could be turned up and the bass control (centered at 60Hz) on my Demeter 201S (the max it can boost is 6db) to different degrees.
I was really amazed by the low end output from the Schroeder 410 with just modest amounts of bass boost -- very deep, powerful, solid, and still tight -- gave me a really awesome feeling of power.
These are great days to be a bassist!
I'm loving it.
The studio one of my bands practices in is a small 14'x16' room and a bit boomy. I've gotten in the habit of cutting the bass control on my SR5 a fair bit.
The last show we did I had some problems from hearing alot of low end on the stage (mostly from the two guitarists), so I kept the bass cut quite a bit during the show.
I talked to another bass player at the 1st break and he said that I could stand to turn up a bit and add some bass boost to the sound (I was not running through the PA). I made some small changes and found a spot on the stage where I could hear myself pretty well. The other bassist left in the middle of the 2nd set, so I didn't get to recheck with him about the sound.
Anyway, at a practice Friday with my other band, I decided to do some more experimenting with the bass settings on my bass and preamp. The acoustics (for bass) are alot better where they practice. I boosted the bass control (centered at 40Hz) on my SR5 about the least amount it could be turned up and the bass control (centered at 60Hz) on my Demeter 201S (the max it can boost is 6db) to different degrees.
I was really amazed by the low end output from the Schroeder 410 with just modest amounts of bass boost -- very deep, powerful, solid, and still tight -- gave me a really awesome feeling of power.
These are great days to be a bassist!
I'm loving it.
Hey guys! Just had to chime in here. I first heard the cabs at the Dallas/Ft. Worth bass bash. I also tried a demo 1210 at a 2-gig stint. WOW! I did both gigs with a high volume variety/dance band and the Schroeder sounded great!
My current cab is an Epifani 2x10 @ 4 ohms. I love how it sounds - very sweet and clear, but that sweet spot is only right in front of the cab. When I walked 6 feet away, my presence on stage just evaporates. And I don't want a 4x10 -- I'm too old!!
I love the idea of a cab that has a lot of headroom in a smallish box! It's perfect for what I do -- corporate gigs, weddings, and restaraunts, etc. - some high volume, some not. I play all different styles too and find the Schroeder to be expressive enough that I'm not inhibited. They have a ton of "throw" - you can hear yourself all over the stage -- and it sounds pretty much the same wherever you are on stage. It's punchy, brawny, but with good detail.
Sonically, I would not put it in the same catagory as an EA or Acme. It's not that uncolored, studio reference monitor, "naked truth" kind of tone. But it's not overly colored like Edens or Ampegs either. It's brawny! It's meant for live gigs!
BTW, the Epifani is for sale!!
My current cab is an Epifani 2x10 @ 4 ohms. I love how it sounds - very sweet and clear, but that sweet spot is only right in front of the cab. When I walked 6 feet away, my presence on stage just evaporates. And I don't want a 4x10 -- I'm too old!!
I love the idea of a cab that has a lot of headroom in a smallish box! It's perfect for what I do -- corporate gigs, weddings, and restaraunts, etc. - some high volume, some not. I play all different styles too and find the Schroeder to be expressive enough that I'm not inhibited. They have a ton of "throw" - you can hear yourself all over the stage -- and it sounds pretty much the same wherever you are on stage. It's punchy, brawny, but with good detail.
Sonically, I would not put it in the same catagory as an EA or Acme. It's not that uncolored, studio reference monitor, "naked truth" kind of tone. But it's not overly colored like Edens or Ampegs either. It's brawny! It's meant for live gigs!
BTW, the Epifani is for sale!!
Zon4John said:BTW, the Epifani is for sale!!
Wow, you really are digging that 1210!
I can't wait until rehearsal Thursday. That will be my first real test of mine.
embellisher said:
Wow, you really are digging that 1210!
I can't wait until rehearsal Thursday. That will be my first real test of mine.
yeah, but now that I have all this headroom from the cab, should I keep the SWR SM-500? OR get one of YOUR amps, Mr. E??!!
Well, if your SWR has enough headroom, why bother, right? I just bought the iAMP to make sure I would have enough headroom. If I had seen a used Thunderfunk, I would have been tempted to check one out, but since I didn't, I figured that I couldn't go wrong with a used 800. Should be more volume than I will ever need!
I just bought the iAMP to make sure I would have enough headroom. If I had seen a used Thunderfunk, I would have been tempted to check one out, but since I didn't, I figured that I couldn't go wrong with a used 800. Should be more volume than I will ever need!
Zon4John said:
Cool that you're liking the 1210 -- amazing little cab.
I suggest that you keep the 500 and see how you like it with the 1210. If it doesn't work for you try something else.
Ahh... the 1210... I still love my little cab!Zon4John said:
As for amp.... buy something different.... not because you need it, but to help out the economy!!!!
My initial impressions after home and jam space comparison to an Aguilar GS112, in no particular order. The "cons" are very minor and have nothing to do with tone or function, and most would only matter to me personally - I'm just listing anything that comes to mind and I don't want to just positively gush.
Comparisions vs. other cabs - namely two GS112, an MM Audiophile 210, and sundry 2x15 cabs to come soon, but my main concern is one Jorg cab vs. one GS112.
- the Schroeder is considerably louder, of course, than a single GS112.
- GS112 specs :
Power handling: 300 watts
Impedance: 8 ohms
Phenolic tweeter with integral phase plug
Custom crossover with variable tweeter control
One Neutrik Speakon and two 1/4" inputs
Frequency response: 42 Hz to 16 kHz
Sensitivity: 102 dB @ 1W 1M
Dimensions: 14"H x 19"W x 18"D
7-ply, void free Philippine mahogany
Weight: 42 lbs.
- unfortunately, the Schroeder is just a little bigger and that little bit prevents it from fitting into my car's trunk. Shame, but I only recently found out the GS112 fits in there. Two fit, in fact (but then nothing else). Maybe the Schroeder would fit via the fold-down seat. It isn't too much bigger. It's just a very personal thought, but one that comes to mind nonetheless. I normally put cabs in the back seat and the Schroder is small enough to fit easily in and out of a small car, doorways, etc.
- the slightly bigger size is an advantage in making it look like more of a "real" cab physically, and a typical rack sits on top without hanging over the sides. In any case, it is still quite small overall esp. for the volume and tone.
- weighs only 6 pounds more than the GS112, which is still easily managed esp with the better recessed handles.
- slightly thinner cab contruction, but still solid. So too things like the handles and 1/4" inputs but all still solid and functional.
- love the blue tint to the cab. Smells nice - kinda sweet like maybe Jorg smokes Phillies Sweets?
- needs to come out with a cover for these. Apparently one is in the works. It's not a fragile cab though, so it'll last without a cover too.
- stickers on the handles and the input plate are a bit weak (colloquially "weak", as in cheap-ish). Maybe get decals instead of paper? http://www.stickerguy.com
- the brand name plate on the front is fine, and even has a protective plastic film for that "new" vibe. Nice touch.
- huge rubber feet on the bottom. Very nice! Almost like having one of those decoupling pads effectively. You could still stack it as it has coupling corners, but to couple the corners you'd remove the feet.
- everything held together with big solid screws.
- ships to you properly packaged and Jorg is very helpful with international shipping.
- the voice of it is just a bit higher in the low mids than the Aguilar. - I'd say the Aguilar is focused ultimately around the low E while the Schroeder is focused around F# or G.
- it also has a kind of low mids slight rasp to it, call it j-like growl, that accentuates the perception of the focus in the low mids.
- there is quite a bit of bottom there, which blooms at higher volumes nicely. The tone sounds most like a layer of mids on top of a bottom. the Aguilar tone is a bit more blended with perhaps the highs sticking out when present. The Schroeder's highs are smoother and blend in better. Even with the tweeter on half it wasn't harsh, but I like tweeter off or on 10-15% max.
- Overall the cabs sound similar, with the Aguilar sounds prettier on its own and the Schroeder more defined in a mix where the Aguilar can get lost (but I prefer an indistinct low warmth vs. a lot of cutting and in this regard the Schroeder is a good happy medium).
- [EDIT] - The Agiular starts to sound more like the Schroeder in re: aggressiveness if you boost the volume so that both the 1212 and the GS112 are at comperable volumes. On this particular test it took going from 5 to 7.5 on the Master Vol. in the Aguilar's case. Also, the Aguilar looses a fair bit of oomph in the lows if you take it off the floor, whereas the Schroeder retains more lows. Also bear in mind I test both of these at ear level, and on the floor highs/aggressiveness is quickly lost.
- more than anything I think the 1212 Schroeder sounds like a pair of Basic Black 1x15 combo and 1x15 extension cab cabs (best stuff SWR ever made by far IMO). Embellisher had that rig too and can maybe confirm/deny.
- while players here have used these cabs for a variety of styles, offhand I'd say the Schroeder is an ideal rock/blues/metal cab with a big tone and presence without being honky/middy/weak. For something like jazz you might not like it as much on its own but any real players will know it's often the stuff you don't like on its own that rules in real applications and the Schroeders shine in the mix where it counts. For Reggae the fact that it has a natural bit of slight grind in the low mids isn't ideal, but I say again in a mix it should be inconsequential or even a plus.
NOTE : I have only so far made comparisons with an amp that also has a twinge of rasp in the low mids, and with mostly Jazz basses (active and passive), so let me say again that if anyone is somehow afraid these lack smoothness ... don't be afraid. They're naturally a little bit aggressive, but I also so far used gear to run this cab which exacerbates that.
NOTE : I am using a 1212, on which consensus seems to be greater lows and less bite, so maybe a 1210 is too cutting for some. Not by what people have written here though.
NOTE : some peoples' "sweet & warm" tone sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me so it's all relative.
- I was skeptical of issues like where the rolloff might be, two speakers in such a small cab, etc. but everything seems to line up fine. Hearing is believing.
- with a 5-string it sounds good and tight down to the low B, especially with the bass in series there's great definition. Not utterly defined but it never gets away from you either, and is still punchy down low.
- with a fretless P bass it sounds better solo than the Aguilar does, as the Aggie was a bit of a bog whereas the Schroeder (with this bass) sounded more complete in tone.
That's all for now. As I said, I have several different amps and cabs to try it with/against. So far I like it. Given the size and cost this is something well worth considering. If there's anything you're giving up, IMO it is no where near as obvious or material as the size and weight you're shedding with this cab.
[EDIT] The GS112 is a killer cab on it's own and more than adequate for sage volumes for everything except perhaps bigtime slapping expeditions, outdoors, 7+ piece bands, or metal. If that's not quite enough, which is the case rarely for me (outdoors), the Schroeder seems like an excellent alternative. That said, the Schroeder costs more like two GS112 cabs so that comparison might be more relevant. Soon come.
Comparisions vs. other cabs - namely two GS112, an MM Audiophile 210, and sundry 2x15 cabs to come soon, but my main concern is one Jorg cab vs. one GS112.
- the Schroeder is considerably louder, of course, than a single GS112.
- GS112 specs :
Power handling: 300 watts
Impedance: 8 ohms
Phenolic tweeter with integral phase plug
Custom crossover with variable tweeter control
One Neutrik Speakon and two 1/4" inputs
Frequency response: 42 Hz to 16 kHz
Sensitivity: 102 dB @ 1W 1M
Dimensions: 14"H x 19"W x 18"D
7-ply, void free Philippine mahogany
Weight: 42 lbs.
- unfortunately, the Schroeder is just a little bigger and that little bit prevents it from fitting into my car's trunk. Shame, but I only recently found out the GS112 fits in there. Two fit, in fact (but then nothing else). Maybe the Schroeder would fit via the fold-down seat. It isn't too much bigger. It's just a very personal thought, but one that comes to mind nonetheless. I normally put cabs in the back seat and the Schroder is small enough to fit easily in and out of a small car, doorways, etc.
- the slightly bigger size is an advantage in making it look like more of a "real" cab physically, and a typical rack sits on top without hanging over the sides. In any case, it is still quite small overall esp. for the volume and tone.
- weighs only 6 pounds more than the GS112, which is still easily managed esp with the better recessed handles.
- slightly thinner cab contruction, but still solid. So too things like the handles and 1/4" inputs but all still solid and functional.
- love the blue tint to the cab. Smells nice - kinda sweet like maybe Jorg smokes Phillies Sweets?
- needs to come out with a cover for these. Apparently one is in the works. It's not a fragile cab though, so it'll last without a cover too.
- stickers on the handles and the input plate are a bit weak (colloquially "weak", as in cheap-ish). Maybe get decals instead of paper? http://www.stickerguy.com
- the brand name plate on the front is fine, and even has a protective plastic film for that "new" vibe. Nice touch.
- huge rubber feet on the bottom. Very nice! Almost like having one of those decoupling pads effectively. You could still stack it as it has coupling corners, but to couple the corners you'd remove the feet.
- everything held together with big solid screws.
- ships to you properly packaged and Jorg is very helpful with international shipping.
- the voice of it is just a bit higher in the low mids than the Aguilar. - I'd say the Aguilar is focused ultimately around the low E while the Schroeder is focused around F# or G.
- it also has a kind of low mids slight rasp to it, call it j-like growl, that accentuates the perception of the focus in the low mids.
- there is quite a bit of bottom there, which blooms at higher volumes nicely. The tone sounds most like a layer of mids on top of a bottom. the Aguilar tone is a bit more blended with perhaps the highs sticking out when present. The Schroeder's highs are smoother and blend in better. Even with the tweeter on half it wasn't harsh, but I like tweeter off or on 10-15% max.
- Overall the cabs sound similar, with the Aguilar sounds prettier on its own and the Schroeder more defined in a mix where the Aguilar can get lost (but I prefer an indistinct low warmth vs. a lot of cutting and in this regard the Schroeder is a good happy medium).
- [EDIT] - The Agiular starts to sound more like the Schroeder in re: aggressiveness if you boost the volume so that both the 1212 and the GS112 are at comperable volumes. On this particular test it took going from 5 to 7.5 on the Master Vol. in the Aguilar's case. Also, the Aguilar looses a fair bit of oomph in the lows if you take it off the floor, whereas the Schroeder retains more lows. Also bear in mind I test both of these at ear level, and on the floor highs/aggressiveness is quickly lost.
- more than anything I think the 1212 Schroeder sounds like a pair of Basic Black 1x15 combo and 1x15 extension cab cabs (best stuff SWR ever made by far IMO). Embellisher had that rig too and can maybe confirm/deny.
- while players here have used these cabs for a variety of styles, offhand I'd say the Schroeder is an ideal rock/blues/metal cab with a big tone and presence without being honky/middy/weak. For something like jazz you might not like it as much on its own but any real players will know it's often the stuff you don't like on its own that rules in real applications and the Schroeders shine in the mix where it counts. For Reggae the fact that it has a natural bit of slight grind in the low mids isn't ideal, but I say again in a mix it should be inconsequential or even a plus.
NOTE : I have only so far made comparisons with an amp that also has a twinge of rasp in the low mids, and with mostly Jazz basses (active and passive), so let me say again that if anyone is somehow afraid these lack smoothness ... don't be afraid. They're naturally a little bit aggressive, but I also so far used gear to run this cab which exacerbates that.
NOTE : I am using a 1212, on which consensus seems to be greater lows and less bite, so maybe a 1210 is too cutting for some. Not by what people have written here though.
NOTE : some peoples' "sweet & warm" tone sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me so it's all relative.
- I was skeptical of issues like where the rolloff might be, two speakers in such a small cab, etc. but everything seems to line up fine. Hearing is believing.
- with a 5-string it sounds good and tight down to the low B, especially with the bass in series there's great definition. Not utterly defined but it never gets away from you either, and is still punchy down low.
- with a fretless P bass it sounds better solo than the Aguilar does, as the Aggie was a bit of a bog whereas the Schroeder (with this bass) sounded more complete in tone.
That's all for now. As I said, I have several different amps and cabs to try it with/against. So far I like it. Given the size and cost this is something well worth considering. If there's anything you're giving up, IMO it is no where near as obvious or material as the size and weight you're shedding with this cab.
[EDIT] The GS112 is a killer cab on it's own and more than adequate for sage volumes for everything except perhaps bigtime slapping expeditions, outdoors, 7+ piece bands, or metal. If that's not quite enough, which is the case rarely for me (outdoors), the Schroeder seems like an excellent alternative. That said, the Schroeder costs more like two GS112 cabs so that comparison might be more relevant. Soon come.
SMASH said:
Thanks for the detailed review, Smash. Especially without the gushing. Makes me feel better about my decision to order one in the near future.
Very thorough review. Like your pickup thread, I am very impressed with your expression of tone in words.
Thanks.
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