Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[Frank Martin]

Tim, you will not be allowed to order a Schroeder until you read every post in this thread, and every post in the other 12 Schroeder vs. XXXX threads.

I have... three times So I'm allowed to get three?
First when it was about 200 replies, then at about 450 and now... Whew... talk about a very-very long thread.
I was pretty sure that I want to get a 1210 when I read it the first and second time... reading it again just to make sure I missed nothing. I'm in the same shoes as Nemo, we've already pm-ed, however I'll have to wait till I get the money together - hopefully till October or November... and after that USPS Ground 4-6 weeks... 'cause that's the only reasonable shipping price.
CAB WAIT SUPPORT GROUP WANTED

 

[embellisher]

How much is UPS ground from the US to Hungary?

 

[Matt Morgan]

I got through about 300 of the postings in this thread and I know the question came up concerning roll-off statistics in relation to the 1210's efficiency.
For the 1210 cab, the web site specs say it has a frequency response of 40hz-18khz:
What's the +/- db at 40hz? How about 32hz?
What's the frequency at -6 db, -10 db?
Just curious if these questions were ever answered.
Thanks

 

[embellisher]

Not yet. A couple of people were going to borrow a scope and take measurements, but nobody has yet.

 

[Frank Martin]

How much is UPS ground from the US to Hungary?

USPS Ground is $75-80 with insurance. But that comes at the price of waiting 4-6 weeks. But since I'm short on capital, and will need some time to get the money even for the cab together, i'll have to take this route.
The other two shipping methods were $160 and $570
I dont remember whether it was with or without insurance...
And there's also customs and import fees. though if it was not for Jörg's shipping/labeling method, it'd be even more... I'm hoping it will stay under $800-850.

 

[embellisher]

Cool. That is much less that I would have imagined. $570 to ship a 59lb package?!?!??!?!? What carrier was that?

 

[embellisher]

I have a gut feeling that the 40 Hz - 18 kHz specs are -10 dB points. If someone has the opportunity to do response measurements, please post the test conditions and methodology along with the results.

I don't have any audio measuring equipment, and by no means am I an expert, but I doubt very seriously, based on my experience with other cabs that claim -6 dB at 40 hz, that the 40 hz number is -10 db. This cab has more low end than a lot of those that claim -6 at 40 hz. The low B is huge, without being boomy, at very high volume. And still huge at more moderate volume. But not overly boomy and artificial sounding.

 

[ModulusFan]

Got yours then Jeff? How do you like it? Is it going to replace the stack rig like some have claimed? How is the iamp/schroeder combo?

I have agreed to buy a used epifani 310, but it's kind of looking like that deal may not happen. I may have to place an order for a schroeder.

 

[John D Harris]

Got yours then Jeff? How do you like it? Is it going to replace the stack rig like some have claimed? How is the iamp/schroeder combo?

I have agreed to buy a used epifani 310, but it's kind of looking like that deal may not happen. I may have to place an order for a schroeder.

You might want to PM 'bassjam'. He had an Epifani T-310 and now has a Schroeder 1210 and 1212.

 

[embellisher]

Got yours then Jeff? How do you like it? Is it going to replace the stack rig like some have claimed? How is the iamp/schroeder combo?

I have agreed to buy a used epifani 310, but it's kind of looking like that deal may not happen. I may have to place an order for a schroeder.

I've got it, but need a few days to give a review. My first impression is that it is as loud and deep as I remember from the D/FW get together.

 

[Frank Martin]

Cool. That is much less that I would have imagined. $570 to ship a 59lb package?!?!??!?!? What carrier was that?

USPS Express... IIRC
The other shipping/transporting companies all have higher prices than the USPS Ground. I have some time ago wanted to buy something and checked the prices out - and those were all over $100 (140-160 with insurance or something) - and that was only for a bass... though that still is labeled oversize, so thats why. Since I have more time than money, so USPS Ground will do the job right for me

But the costs dont end with shipping - there still are customs and import fees.

 

[Frank Martin]

Yep, unless Jorg is willing to write "Broken homemade subwoofer, value: $50" on the customs form.

Pssst!



He does...

 

[A9X]

I have a gut feeling that the 40 Hz - 18 kHz specs are -10 dB points. If someone has the opportunity to do response measurements, please post the test conditions and methodology along with the results.

So do I. With drivers with Fs of 66 and 51Hz, I seriously doubt it's getting anywhere near 40Hz. An impedance curve is relatively easy and would tell a lot.

 

[James Hart]

So do I. With drivers with Fs of 66 and 51Hz, I seriously doubt it's getting anywhere near 40Hz. An impedance curve is relatively easy and would tell a lot.

I did a quick sweep of some other boutique cab builders pages with similar claims... not one of them had any more info then what Jorg has offered.

I know what I hear... and I like it.

 

[A9X]

I did a quick sweep of some other boutique cab builders pages with similar claims... not one of them had any more info then what Jorg has offered.

I didn't make a comment on any other manufacturer's specs. People can make any claims they like, but physics is physics, and I still see no reason to beleive any of these cabs go near 40Hz.

I know what I hear... and I like it.

I never commented on the sonics.

 

[James Hart]

I didn't make a comment on any other manufacturer's specs.

You are asking for specs that I couldn't find on other cab builders sites that also quote 40Hz... just making that observation.

People can make any claims they like, but physics is physics, and I still see no reason to beleive any of these cabs go near 40Hz.

so then don't believe it. I'll repeat... I know what I hear and I like it! (read: I'm personally not concerned with any numbers, I went by the sound)

I never commented on the sonics.

nope just physics, I made the sonics comment

 

[A9X]

You are asking for specs that I couldn't find on other cab builders sites that also quote 40Hz... just making that observation.

Not really, I was sort of thinking aloud, and wondering what the Z curve would look like, which would tell me the sort of LF performance the cab will actually give, at least at lowish power. I have no doubt that the same curves taken from many other manufacturer's cabs that claim similar would also be enlightening.

so then don't believe it. I'll repeat... I know what I hear and I like it! (read: I'm personally not concerned with any numbers, I went by the sound)

I won't (and would love to be proven wrong), but it's not my money that's going to be spent on them, and if they sound good to your ears, then great.

 

[Biker4Him]

I can never understand all those physics things. The graphs and charts and stuff hurt my head. I just wanna play bass.

But here's a company that shows all those graphs and curves, and charts, and stuff... maybe you'll like thier cabinets. I've heard them before.. they sounded o.k... but aren't takiing the bass world by storm!!

Link Removed


For me, the 1210 sounded great, and did everything I wanted. Regardless of what someones graph/chart/curve says.

 

[JSCHRO7376]

The Schroeders have been analyzed, tested, etc. by a capacity whose experience and integrity is impeccable.
I therefore have no reason whatsoever not to trust this person.

I furthermore stated on numerous occasions that the Schroeders are NOT the holy grail of bass cabinets, they will work for some bassists and might not for others. But obviously this thread shows that bassists are willing to spend their money on these cabinets, and that the majority is happy having spent their money.

Sincerely,

Jorg
PS: "believe = not knowing"

 

[slinkp]

I have a gut feeling that the 40 Hz - 18 kHz specs are -10 dB points. If someone has the opportunity to do response measurements, please post the test conditions and methodology along with the results.

I was thinking of trying to do some rough measurements when Scooper and I finally do our long-delayed cab mini-shootout. We'd be comparing the Schroeder 1210, the Acme Low B2, and the EA CXL 112.
If transportation factors allow, I will try to also bring my old Eden D210-XLT. We may be doing it in a rented rehearsal space so there may be another cab or two on hand.

Given that I don't have anything much in the way of proper test equipment, I was thinking of doing what I can with what I have. While there are a lot of problematic factors, this should give us a level playing field with the various cabs and at least quantify some of the differences between them.

EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE

* Sennheiser 421 dynamic mic (best mic i have I'm afraid... I also have a Shure SM-57 and an MXL V-57 which is a super-cheap large-diaphragm condensor)

* mackie 1202 mixer (for mic preamp)

* iRiver HP120 recorder/player (can record 16/44.1/stereo WAV files, uncompressed)

* Panasonic portable CD player

* my home computer

PROPOSED METHODOLOGY
======================

PREPARATION

* burn a CD containing a swept sine wave. I can generate this easily enough. Probably just sweep from 20 Hz to 20 KHz, but with what duration?

SETUP

* pick a spot for cab placement that seems to sound pretty good in the room.

* pick a spot for mic placement maybe 2-3 feet in front of the cab. This is tricky... we want it close enough to minimize room coloration and ambient noise, but far enough to minimize mic proximity effect and allow the cab's sound to "develop". Probably just pick something that subjectively sounds good, then

* connect CD player to power amp and connect to the cab. Disable all EQ on the CD player. Adjust power amp and CD player volume to get a decent level in the room. (start with the loudest cab.)

* adjust preamp and recorder levels.

RECORDING:

for each cabinet, do the following:

* place cab in exactly the same spot, maybe up off the floor

* plug in cab to the power amp

* set cab tweeter control (if any) to "neutral" position

* leave the mic in the same spot, adjust ONLY the height so it is on-axis for the center of the cab front.

* do NOT adjust any levels! We want a good relative comparison of the cabs. Note that this poses an apparent disadvantage for 8-ohm cabs vs. 4-ohm cabs, but without better test equipment I don't see any other way we can be remotely fair.

* start recording

* verbally announce which cab we're recording

* play back the sweep on the CD player

* stop recording

ANALYSIS

* load the WAV files from the iRiver into my computer

* from each wave file, generate one or more images showing frequency vs. amplitude and anything else that seems interesting.

* Harmonic distortion analysis? Not sure what I could use for this, or if it will tell us anything meaningful in these conditions.

* Post the resulting images on TalkBass.

* Hide


There are a lot of less-than-ideal factors in the above:

- the mic is not really flat
- the room will likely be very colored

Taken together, this means we won't get "real" frequency response plots,
just relative comparisons between the cabs.

Other issues:

- we may have real problems with ambient noise
- the Mackie doesn't have the best preamps
- the iRiver doesn't have the world's best converters (it has an optical input but I don't have any other converters to plug into it).

... although I expect the latter two factors to be relatively insignificant given all the above.

Suggestions on improving the plan would be welcome. Suggestions involving purchase of new equipment will be ignored