Sealed cabinets

[brothernewt]

You could give this a shot:
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I had a 1x15 from them for a short while... I'm not a 15' kinda guy either but it was great. Only let it go as I wasn't using it at all.

 

[HMZ]

The Mesa Powerhouse 2x10 is sealed, and it rocks. Guess I need to check out these Bergantinos though, huh?

The Mesa Powerhouse 210 is ported out the back.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I use two Traynor YS-15 cabinets from the mid '60s. They sound great with Eminence Delta Pros in them. Maye you can find them or have replicas made.

 

[will33]

I very limited experience with sealed cabs, what are the main difference in sound from the ported ones? Pro/cons

Look at the response curve on a graph for a sealed cab vs. a ported one. A sealed cab has a very smooth and shallow roll off in the lower frequencies but starts to fall off earlier than a ported box all other things being equal. The ported one plays louder into the lower frequencies until you get below the tuning frequency of the box where it has a sudden, steep drop in response.

 

[Billy Low]

Look at the response curve on a graph for a sealed cab vs. a ported one. A sealed cab has a very smooth and shallow roll off in the lower frequencies but starts to fall off earlier than a ported box all other things being equal. The ported one plays louder into the lower frequencies until you get below the tuning frequency of the box where it has a sudden, steep drop in response.

Could you show an example of this please?

 

[will33]

Sorry, can't get it to post on here, maybe some other wizard of the PC can make it work. If you have WinISD just model the same speaker in a sealed box and then a ported one of proper size and compare the lines.

 

[A9X]

Look at the response curve on a graph for a sealed cab vs. a ported one. A sealed cab has a very smooth and shallow roll off in the lower frequencies but starts to fall off earlier than a ported box all other things being equal. The ported one plays louder into the lower frequencies until you get below the tuning frequency of the box where it has a sudden, steep drop in response.

Yes, a sealed cab typically rolls off at 12dB/oct and ported at 24dB/oct, but there are some variations bepending on the tuning. The worst (useable not extreme case) sealed cabs will also have a better transient response than the best ported cabs, which are usually SBB4.

I'll dig up some graphs later from the puter at the workshop.

 

[Foxworthy925]

hmmm. I see all these people raving about the nv610, which is giving me some serious gas, but it makes me wonder. how does the nv215 compare? I've never used either in person, but the 215 seems like it would be prefered if just comparing statistics. the 215 apparently has a larger frequency responce (they say it goes 11hz lower and 2khz higher), higher sensitivity, the same dimensions, and it even weighs LESS than the 610! despite this, I don't see anyone using them! I know that these are two very different cabs, so different peoples' tastes are going to favor one or the other, but are there any major reasons as to why the 610 is so much more popular?

 

[BartmanPDX]

hmmm. I see all these people raving about the nv610, which is giving me some serious gas, but it makes me wonder. how does the nv215 compare? I've never used either in person, but the 215 seems like it would be prefered if just comparing statistics. the 215 apparently has a larger frequency responce (they say it goes 11hz lower and 2khz higher), higher sensitivity, the same dimensions, and it even weighs LESS than the 610! despite this, I don't see anyone using them! I know that these are two very different cabs, so different peoples' tastes are going to favor one or the other, but are there any major reasons as to why the 610 is so much more popular?

To be honest, I think some of it is just tradition.

People who come at sealed cabs from having heard the Ampeg fridge like the NV610 a lot. It's not much of a stretch conceptually, and many people think it's a better cab, so it's a natural progression. Since the Ampeg 810 is so well known, a lot of people follow this path.

The NV215 is a different beast. Most people have a natural inclination to think that a cab with 15s must be muddy while a cab with 10s will be more punchy. So I think many people might not really give the NV215 too much consideration. However, the NV215 is not considered to be at all muddy according to most people who have heard it. Also, I think the 215 may have been out of production for a while. Nevertheless, it's a killer cab, and I'd be hard pressed to choose between it and the NV610. I'd also throw some of those statistics (like frequency response) out the window -- the real issue here is tone. Basically, they're two different cabs, with two different tone profiles. Fewer people have heard the 215, so it gets less attention. If you can get the chance, try them both, and let your ears decide. If that's not possible, you might post a thread asking people who have had extensive experience with both what their characterization of the sound of each one would be.

 

[HMZ]

I just picked up a Gallien-Krueger 210BLX-II. Its a cheap sealed cabinet and it sounds pretty good. I bought it to leave at my drummers house for rehearsal. Its $199.00 at Musician's Friend.

 

[Billy Low]

Sorry, can't get it to post on here, maybe some other wizard of the PC can make it work. If you have WinISD just model the same speaker in a sealed box and then a ported one of proper size and compare the lines.

It's okay. It wasn't for my usage anyway. I'm quite familiar with the numbers. I just would've liked for others to see.

 

[bugbass]

Look at the response curve on a graph for a sealed cab vs. a ported one. A sealed cab has a very smooth and shallow roll off in the lower frequencies but starts to fall off earlier than a ported box all other things being equal. The ported one plays louder into the lower frequencies until you get below the tuning frequency of the box where it has a sudden, steep drop in response.

So a ported cab can be the better choice for 5 stringers?

 

[Jeff Scott]

The sloping response of sealed cabs may be good in clubs that have a lot of room gain. I certainly do not lack for low end out of my Traynors.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Look at the response curve on a graph for a sealed cab vs. a ported one.

The response curve doesn't tell all. This chart compares the maximum output of a 3 cu ft Deltalite II 2510 2x10, sealed (white trace) versus ported (red trace, 50 Hz tuning).

In the region of greatest power demand, 50-60 Hz, the average 12dB advantage of the vented cab means it would take four of the sealed cabs to match it. The sealed has the advantage only below 35Hz, where it's a moot point.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

hmmm. I see all these people raving about the nv610, which is giving me some serious gas, but it makes me wonder. how does the nv215 compare? I've never used either in person, but the 215 seems like it would be prefered if just comparing statistics. the 215 apparently has a larger frequency responce (they say it goes 11hz lower and 2khz higher), higher sensitivity, the same dimensions, and it even weighs LESS than the 610! despite this, I don't see anyone using them! I know that these are two very different cabs, so different peoples' tastes are going to favor one or the other, but are there any major reasons as to why the 610 is so much more popular?

in my mind, it's because of how the speakers present the information. just like any other cab selection, we choose our driver size because of how it presents. 10's present better high end than 15's, so they're usually considered more full spectrum. the 215 sounds amazing. very old school tone, lots of thud and boom, nice mid, but for high end? no sir. a friend of mine is getting one, and he plays a 6? p-bass and a Gibson EB3, vintage. very woofy, wooly boomy tone, and that's what he loves. and he gets more than enough from the 215. but all the hi-fi guys around here take a listen to the 215, love it for what it does, but it doesn't do what they want. y'see?

and yes, i have heard and played both. i liked the 215 because i don't like the high end on the 10's. but both are amazing.

 

[TomB]

I posted this in an earlier thread about cabs for an Ampeg V4B head... seems to make sense in this thread:

I have a '75 V4B, and it's the same width as the '70's V4 guitar cabs. Using a couple of freeware bass cab design programs I discovered that '70's-era 4X12 guitar cabs are almost the ideal size for a sealed 2X12 bass enclosure using Eminence Delta LF speaker specs.

I found an old V4 guitar cab unloaded and unloved in the back of a music store in N.C., picked it up very cheap along w/2 Emmy speakers (not so cheap). I then mounted the 2 - 12's and sealed the other two speaker openings w/1/8" plexiglass. It looks and sounds just great!

I wonder if there are other Ampeg 4X12 boxes out there that might make a great 2X12 sealed enclosure for someone looking for something just a little smaller than a 6X10?

 

[Billy Low]

The response curve doesn't tell all. This chart compares the maximum output of a 3 cu ft Deltalite II 2510 2x10, sealed (white trace) versus ported (red trace, 50 Hz tuning).

In the region of greatest power demand, 50-60 Hz, the average 12dB advantage of the vented cab means it would take four of the sealed cabs to match it. The sealed has the advantage only below 35Hz, where it's a moot point.

Thanks Bill!

 

[Willem]

in my mind, it's because of how the speakers present the information. just like any other cab selection, we choose our driver size because of how it presents. 10's present better high end than 15's, so they're usually considered more full spectrum. the 215 sounds amazing. very old school tone, lots of thud and boom, nice mid, but for high end? no sir. a friend of mine is getting one, and he plays a 6? p-bass and a Gibson EB3, vintage. very woofy, wooly boomy tone, and that's what he loves. and he gets more than enough from the 215. but all the hi-fi guys around here take a listen to the 215, love it for what it does, but it doesn't do what they want. y'see?

and yes, i have heard and played both. i liked the 215 because i don't like the high end on the 10's. but both are amazing.

You're describing the NV215 very differently from others who own/have played the cab. The 6" driver is supposed to deliver more high end than the NV610 can deliver...

 

[pickles]

I've been a ported cab user my whole career, but recently I used a backline with two ampeg 410HEs, and I can't deny that it sounded really really good. Great punch and articulation on stage.

My only worry is that the signal is going to be very different from the DI sound that the FOH man is working with, especially if the cab has no tweeter. Micing bass cabs is almost always not an option.

I'm thinking of trying an 810E anyway.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

My only worry is that the signal is going to be very different from the DI sound that the FOH man is working with, especially if the cab has no tweeter. Micing bass cabs is almost always not an option.
.

It makes no difference, the tone out front will be whatever the FOH guy wants it to be. Between a speaker system that goes two octaves lower than the backline and EQ up the ying-yang all you can do is hope that he's got a clue. The bad news is that, even in the top ranks of pro-touring, when it comes to the bass most don't.