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Double Bass Self-taught bassists (DB forum thread)

#82
I actually went to school and have a Masters Degree. I posted in the wrong area. Silly me for not reading it all (DB). Sorry guys.
 
#83
drurb said:
When it comes to analogies, some merit can be found in any one that's stated while some manner in which one doesn't apply can always be found. The merit of the analogy depends largely on the essence on which it rests.

As I see it, Troy's analogy is informative and meaningful. It does not rest on the "professional vs. amateur" distinction but on the the fact that the former typically learn their craft via formal, established, proven paths while the latter often do not.

If one reads the whole of Troy's comments, then it's also clear that he would not necessarily rule out hiring a craftsman who was self-taught. As I read his comments, he would choose not to hire someone who seemed to eschew established methods and practices in favor of his own and/or without evidence of expertise.

So, Troy, correct me if I'm wrong but you would hire a Paul Warburton, self-taught or not. You'd also hire a self-taught plumber with a proven track record (as long as he/she had a a license). :)
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Thank you. Whether I would hire a bassist who was self-taught or not is a bit academic, since I can't imagine ever hiring a bassist unless it's as a sub, in which case I call people I know will play and behave well, can be counted on and would want the gig. So, no I don't care how they came to be so. However, I've never felt that way about a new player who thought he didn't need lessons because he had been playing BG for x years.

As for Mr. Warburton, I'd take a lesson from him if I had the chance. Are we really considering him self-taught? I've never asked him, but I know he refers to Red Mitchell as a mentor and that implies to me that he helped him develop as a player at some point. At any event, no it doesn't matter to me, with people who have established themselves. The question that we're riddled with here is whether or not we would advise a new player to go it alone vs taking at least some lessons. No, I do not. Is someone the exception? Maybe, but we have a pretty good documented and aural history that people who try tend to regret it. If someone is determined to, okay, I guess, but why come here for permission. If you want to spend x years going it alone and then upload some samples of you playing beautifully and put us in our places, great. But, don't argue with us about it before you start.

The teacher I stayed with the longest didn't teach me to play bass. He taught me how to practice and put me back on track when started drifting. So, in a metaphoric way, I was teaching myself, but without his help, I wouldn't have made it. But, now we're really arguing about subtleties of the English language, not for the first time in this thread, I'm afraid.

For those of you who have stumbled into this argument and don't understand it, watch from today how many and how often BG players show up and announce that they are "making the jump", but don't think they'll have any trouble since they played a fretless p-bass once.

gerry grable said:
...
Okay. . .I give up. I'm not here to teach Logic 101. Google Fallacies if you like and while you're at it, Google Reductio ad absurdum.
...
And even though I am entirely self-taught, I have always (in any of my posts where the question came up) encouraged young bassists to definitely get a teacher. ...
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Then I'm not really sure how you and I ended up on different ends of this discussion, except that I made an analogy that you didn't like. I haven't said or intended any disrespect to you, but you've come directly at me for reasons that I can't understand, unless it's that you're insecure about being self taught. If so, it's got nothing to do with me because I frankly don't give a ****. Either way, I'm done with the back and forth with you now.

By the way and with reference to my comments prior to your quote. I googled you before I came to that conclusion to see just who you are to be in my **** like this. Aside from someone who participates in this and Ken Smith's forum on playing bass, I have no idea. Maybe you're a great player, maybe you're not. Maybe you've been on multiple tours, maybe you've never played outside of your house. No idea. I know you have a "wood upright 4 string" and another unplayable one in the corner of your barn in rural Pennsylvania, a couple of electric basses and a big amp and that you're proudly self-taught. Well, congratulations on that. You don't like my choice of words, put me on your ignore list, I won't miss you. But stop ****ing with me.
 
#86
You know, I feel that with all the resources online today, one could present the argument that it makes it MORE important to find a good teacher. I have cringed more than several times at youtube bass 'lessons.' Before the internet, you could seek out the knowledge from local players who were, usually, happy to share....but now any 'village' idiot with a webcam can call themselves an 'expert.' Once you get to a certain level, you can weed out all the nonsence...but a beginner wouldn't know which advise is bad advise online.
 
#90
TroyK said:
As for Mr. Warburton, I'd take a lesson from him if I had the chance. Are we really considering him self-taught? I've never asked him, but I know he refers to Red Mitchell as a mentor and that implies to me that he helped him develop as a player at some point.
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Kindly, Troy, don't call me Mr. I hate that ****. When I hung with Red as a 17 yr. old, I had already developed to a degree, so no, not studied with him as much as hang around him as much as possible so that something might rub off.
When I lived in Aspen, arguably the greatest classical DB teacher who ever lived, Stuart Sankey, (teacher of Gary Karr and Edgar Meyer, among many others) offered me free lessons with the warning that it might slow me down for a bit, having to think too much. I declined and still don't think much about what I play. :help:
 
#96
Paul Warburton said:
Bucko, my playing is so stunningly emotional that it's way beyound your brain's ability to comprehend. Just because you invented that Ab, you think you can talk to yer elders like this? :crying:
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I just can't pass up a straight line, you know me.

And my limited mental capacity...
 

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