• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Separating the pros from the amateurs; a list

#81
you lost me as to the point:
Whousedtoplay said:
Here is a virtuoso Top Ten bass player, Linley Marthe, playing with "less-accomplished folks".
Even a singer could not change the "atmosphere" (at 41:20)

Click to expand...

i'm no jazz guy and never heard of that bass player, but that all sounded pretty cohesive and "responsible" to me!

i guess he's the famous guy in the group, and thus gets more free reign on stage (and i didn't listen to the whole damn thing), but it sounded to me like he was driving the groove the whole time, pushing the band to sound better, and being entirely "professional" and appropriate.

i think of "noodling" as notes played to amuse yourself as opposed to making the tune sound good, and i don't hear him doing that at all.
 
#82
matthewbrown said:
I'm a semi-pro bassist who is fairly well schooled in music theory and studied with some really good teachers. A recent experience had me thinking about how a bassist who plays in an "amateurish" fashion is different than a bassist who plays like a professional. So I made a list, and welcome comments and additions.
Amateur players will likely
  • Play more notes than necessary
  • Not take into account what the singer or the rest of the band might be doing
  • Change register for no reason
  • not put what is best for the song ahead of everything else
  • fail to articulate notes in order to enhance the time feel
  • execute rhythmically inaccurate lines and fail to lock in with the other players
Click to expand...

I'm down with most of this list.

The one you left out, and this is my personal pet peeve, is that pros have control over their volume while amateurs do not.
 
#85
JimmyM said:
OK, here's the real list that separates pros from non-pros:

1. Show up on time
2. Don't be a douche

Everything else is negotiable if you follow those two simple rules.
Click to expand...
I vote for your list. Though, showing up late might be considered one way to be a douche, and thus #1 is redundant.

So:

1. Don't be a douche

=> Get paid
=> Everybody is happy
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Bass Clef, Marial and JimmyM
#87
A pro understands that everyone depends on each other and that everyone has to pull their own weight.
A pro shows up on time and ready to work.
A pro has a backup plan if something goes wrong during a performance.
A pro can work in a band or write commercially, or produce or teach.
A pro checks their ego and attitude at the door.
 
  • Like
Reactions: xUptheIronsx
#88
FFTT said:
A pro understands that everyone depends on each other and that everyone has to pull their own weight.
A pro shows up on time and ready to work.
A pro has a backup plan if something goes wrong during a performance.
A pro can work in a band or write commercially, or produce or teach.
A pro checks their ego and attitude at the door.
Click to expand...

best list yet....in fact, i am stealing this and making it a poster for the band room! My "people" will contact your "people" about the residuals:cool:

just some detail additions that I use to keep myself in check:

A pro understands that everyone depends on each other and that everyone has to pull their own weight.
A pro shows up on time and ready to work.
A pro has a backup plan - both logistically and musically - if something goes wrong during a performance
A pro can work in a band or write commercially, or produce or teach...possibly doing any of these at the same time or in the same situation
A pro checks their ego and attitude at the door.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FFTT
#89
matthewbrown said:
I'm a semi-pro bassist who is fairly well schooled in music theory and studied with some really good teachers. A recent experience had me thinking about how a bassist who plays in an "amateurish" fashion is different than a bassist who plays like a professional. So I made a list, and welcome comments and additions.
Amateur players will likely
  • Play more notes than necessary
  • Not take into account what the singer or the rest of the band might be doing
  • Change register for no reason
  • not put what is best for the song ahead of everything else
  • fail to articulate notes in order to enhance the time feel
  • execute rhythmically inaccurate lines and fail to lock in with the other players
Click to expand...

A lot of this is what I would call subjective. What one listener thinks is inappropriate is awesome for another.
The only difference between a "professional" and an "amateur" is who gets paid.
 
#90
Jazz Ad said:
Meh. You're a pro if you make most of your living out of music. I can't think of another valid factor.
Click to expand...

Kind of. If you simply get paid at all to play music that is what makes you a professional. It isn't talent or musical education, it is whether or not someone is willing to pay you to play. There are some pretty awful players out there making what I would consider to be horrible noise disguised as music...but someone is paying them for it, and that makes them pros. It used to be that an athlete was disallowed from performing in the Olypmpics if they had ever been paid. Once they received compensation for their talents they were no longer considered amateurs.
 
#92
Catering your material and your sets to draw the ladies does not make you pussies!
It will usually get you into the better " paying" clubs with a better overall clientele.

That doesn't mean you have to be lounge lizards, play techno-disco or wear a monkey suit.

If you're worried about impressing other musicians, what REALLY impresses other musicians
is a house packed full of honeys.

The ladies will be concentrating on an irresistible beat and great vocals and lyrics.
Just watch them, they are mouthing the lyrics to almost every song like clockwork, even the fastest rap stuff that would leave most of us tongue tied.
The other musicians are generally consider as supporting roles for the vocals.

The most important thing I will tell any young group is to LISTEN to each other
and to get those vocals tight and out front.
 
Last edited:
#93
A poorly structured & timed, or overly busy bass part will step all over vocals.
This is one reason why Paul McCartney always tried to track the final bass part last.

If you play up neck at the wrong times, the bottom can easily fall out from under the group.
It is the bass player's job to drive the band with the kick and hold that foundation strong as possible.
 
#94
FFTT said:
A poorly structured & timed, or overly busy bass part will step all over vocals.
This is one reason why Paul McCartney always tried to track the final bass part last.

If you play up neck at the wrong times, the bottom can easily fall out from under the group.
It is the bass player's job to drive the band with the kick and hold that foundation strong as possible.
Click to expand...

And realize that 99.99% of your audience doesn't know what a bass guitar is and couldn't care less how awesome your technique is or how many hours you spend woodshedding every day, or for that matter, how expensive and exotic your gear is. They want to hear bottom and as long as it's in tune and grooving enough to get them on the dance floor, that is almost always enough. I can't tell you how many bands I've seen playing barely tolerable versions of the latest Maroon 5 song, or some Bon Jovi tripe from the 80s, but with enough competence to get the girls on the dance floor and guys buying them drinks. Club owner happy, is willing to pay the band to come back and get more girls on the dance floor and more guys buying them drinks. That makes them pros.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FFTT
#96
We were doing 5/40 medley sets. 200 minutes of actual music every night.
6-7 nights a week and we were usually booked for the entire week 3 months in advance.
Once a month, we tossed the weakest 2-3 songs and picked up something stronger or something off the top 10.

5 vocals, tight harmonies, accurate parts or better.

We were pulling off songs most bands wouldn't even dare try to cover because we had the vocals. We also had our own $24,000.00 PA and the truck to haul everything.

When I joined that group they were playing the dumps with poor attendance.
By the time we split, we were standing room only.
 
Last edited:
#97
Mike Sorr said:
And realize that 99.99% of your audience doesn't know what a bass guitar is and couldn't care less how awesome your technique is or how many hours you spend woodshedding every day, or for that matter, how expensive and exotic your gear is.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should just show up with a shovel, then ;)

Don't know how it is on your gigs, but on my gigs, audiences are pretty smart, and while not everyone out there knows the difference between a bass and a guitar, there are plenty who do. And they may not be able to tell what notes you're playing, but they can darn sure tell when you sound and play like crap!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moley13 and FFTT
#98
You never know if your group or another group may be scouting for a replacement player.
Just as a matter of self respect, if you're not going to do your best, get off the stage.
 
#99
matthewbrown said:
I'm a semi-pro bassist who is fairly well schooled in music theory and studied with some really good teachers. A recent experience had me thinking about how a bassist who plays in an "amateurish" fashion is different than a bassist who plays like a professional. So I made a list, and welcome comments and additions.
Amateur players will likely
  • Play more notes than necessary
  • Not take into account what the singer or the rest of the band might be doing
  • Change register for no reason
  • not put what is best for the song ahead of everything else
  • fail to articulate notes in order to enhance the time feel
  • execute rhythmically inaccurate lines and fail to lock in with the other players
Click to expand...

A good list for any kind of player. Especially number two.
 
#100
JimmyM said:
Maybe you should just show up with a shovel, then ;)

Don't know how it is on your gigs, but on my gigs, audiences are pretty smart, and while not everyone out there knows the difference between a bass and a guitar, there are plenty who do. And they may not be able to tell what notes you're playing, but they can darn sure tell when you sound and play like crap!
Click to expand...


I think it depends on what kind of music you play. If you're doing avant-garde jazz you're audience is likely to be a little more sophisticated. If you play bars and dance clubs chances are your audience wants to drink and dance and thinks a high hat is something you wear on your head after you smoke pot. An audience that has ears that work will be able to tell when a band is really, really bad...but the band would have to be exceptionally awful. I've seen lots of bands that get a great reception that I would classify as crap. If the singer is singing the correct vocal line, the band is in tune and the music sounds sort of like the way it does on the radio, that's usually good enough.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back