Set list too short

[DrThumpenstein]

So we have titles from Stevie Wonder, Jamiroquai, Sam And Dave, Amy Winehouse, Larry Graham, Michael Jackson, Crusaders.

This soul funk with a small touch of jazz.

Hold On by Sam and Dave was typically a tune I managed to push in to have songs quick enough for our 1h sets in the begining.
That's one we needed only one or two rehearsal to get right.

That's why recently I pushed for Soulman that should be pretty quick to do.

But there is no traction whatsoever for any song.

I forgot to say that the original singer will not do the show because she is pregnant, so at the same time there are auditions for new singers, so we have a least one.

In the begining the BL was on the same page as me on adding new songs, then we realised it was so slow, and it seems he has given up expecting more, which is a problem because he is supposed to have to the legitimacy to put ultimatums on people. But he said me it's his duty to motivate people in the band.

I don't think that's true, because it's acceptong people can be unmotivated, which should be a reason good enough to not keep them in the band.

But as long as people show up to rehearsals and shows, it's like not doing efforts to learn songs is not a reason good enough to have to leave.

Recently when I talked about the subject to guitar player, about him not learning songs, he said "I don't want to learn songs if we are not sure to play them".
So it's like we now never reach the critical mass of having enough people learning and pushing for songs to be played.
Also this leads to rehearsals, where the guy said "I didn't have time to learn the song".
Now the BL is also using that argument, like "I was waiting for you to push that song more before learning it", when the Sax pushed for it.
Should we need to shove it down your throat or something ?

Also the BL was proposed songs by the new singer candidate, it was Nakamara, I let you Google and laugh to how complicated it is.
He said "I think we need more challenging stuff to motivate people".
And we can't do Soulman just like that in one rehearsal and how long do you think it's going to take to do Nakamara ???
What a f ing joke.

I’m with you. If you’ve got players who can pull off that kind of music, you have players who can add six songs in seven weeks with a week to spare. That’s crazy. We have no trouble adding a couple of songs a week and we all have day jobs. (And I’d hesitate to try Jamiroquai or Stevie with this band. )

in my band, we just had a meeting about the same issue, although everyone was on board with how many songs we needed to add and which songs we needed to drop from the last gig. Sounds like the band leader is not quite doing his job in getting the communications flowing and setting expectations for this group, and that’s an important part of his job.

If you can’t get on the same page, and there’s work for you in other bands where you live, I can see where you would put out feelers with other bands.

On the other hand, I would much rather be playing what you’re playing than all the hair metal I’m playing right now!

 

[basseux]

Always go into a gig with more material than you need. Even with an 8-piece band there should be simple songs in any genre that the majority already know. If y'all can't put together a couple songs per week between now and then maybe you aren't quite ready to play that level of venue. It sounds like you think you can do it but the BL won't make the right call. It seems self-destructive.

I think that technically, band members could if they spent the time, but clearly, the band, as a band, doesn't have that professional mindset, and logically isn't worthy of that venue.

I am sure in their mind they are like "ho you are so negative, we will make it, we always do, be positive".
But why is filling a set list even a subject of discussion ?

If everyone is doing their part on their own time, it should be very easy to add 30 minutes to your set. I don't understand the reluctance to add material to your repertoire. One band I'm in, we have a 4 hour set with 6-9 extra songs to swap out, depending on how the band leader reads the audience. New songs are always being added as well. I love this, keeps things fresh.

What do the other members of the band think about this. If they agree with the band leader, you have an uphill battle on your hands. I hope you find a solution.

If you don't find a solution, don't make a threat, start looking for another band or put your own project together. Find likeminded people. I say this because, once your band gets a reputation for shorting the show, the gigs will dry up, better to be prepared.

In the begining already, they were talking of ditching songs they felt wasn't sounding great, like Master Blaster, or shorten long songs like Street Life, while we didn't have enough length for the shows to come.
I felt like I spent a lot of energy explaining we should do that only after we have enough songs to do a full set, because we were already to slow adding new songs.

If a band couldn't get 30 minutes of additional music together within 7 weeks, I'd be looking for a new band.

What it really comes down to is how much work each musician is willing to do on their own time. Even if you're all new to the game.

As someone else noted, you didn't mention what type of music you're doing... but there are 100s of super simple 3 chord covers in most genres that be dragged out, jammed with, and played with little to no rehearsal.

The type is soul funk with a bit of jazz.

Sax proposed The Chicken on the group chat.
I backed him.
No one else reacted.

To me we should be able to play songs at the rehearsal right the first time, like if we had to play live, avoiding train wrecks, and then later we fix stuff that stick out too much.
I did that every week at a jam, learning the jam set list of the week and playing with host band members and random strangers.

I can't really accept we can't have this attitude for our own rehearsals.

From what you've told us there really is no upside to being in this band.
Don't say it? Just do it, and it won't be a threat.
I quit a band for a lot less than that.
I'd stick around and finish any near term commitments you have. But if this is the only gig on the books, just tell them you're done after it's over.

My commitment to the band is have fun learning songs, have fun rehearsing them, have fun performing them live.
People in the band wants to play live, because they come to the shows.
People want to rehearse because they come to the rehearsals.
But apparently, learning and practicing new songs to perform them at rehearsals and shows, isn't at the top of their priority.
It doesn't seem they have fun learning songs.

I am not sure how it will sound, but I feel this kind of void any sort of moral commitment I am supposed to have to the band.

And I am starting to wonder if some members had some unmet expectations, maybe that the BL promised, that leads to them passively aggressively not doing what they are supposed to do.
Some wanted to do originals, but so far the jams we could do at rehearsals led to nothing, I see no potential in that, and honestly do not care, I happy enough playing covers if that's the only thing we are good for.

About leaving, yes, I think about it, and I am only afraid that if I do, they have some sort of revelation that they need to do something, and that I will miss that moment I was waiting for so long.

if there is no money involved then there is nothing wrong with a couple longer breaks and slightly shorter sets and maybe ending early.

it’s not the end of the world.

The ticket will be 20€, people will pay for this, and we take a percentage on this I think.
Most of us have day jobs, and don't need the money to live, usually money is used to pay our rehearsals and subs.
But, I don't want that stress of feeling humiliated that we do a poopy performance.

 

[Eric Swaim]

30 minutes worth of Music, easy to work up, and fits your stuff, unless you already do it.

1.Thank You......Sly and the Family Stone
2. Give me Some Lovin.....Blues Brothers
3. Superstition.....Stevie Wonder
4. Who's Making Love to your old lady, while you were out making love....Blues Brothers
5. Funky Music....Wild Cherry
6. Brick House......Comadores
7. Superfreak.........Rick James
8. Gold on the Ceiling....Black Keys

3 minutes x 8 songs = 24 minute minimum. Add some extended guitar solo's and you reach more than your goal

 

[C Niz]

On a more practical note, can you, the drummer, guitar player and keyboardist learn 4 instrumentals? Green onions, chameleon, etc things that don’t need a singer or a horn section and open set 2 & 3 with a couple then bring up the rest of the band. I sub in a wedding band and they do a bunch of things like that so that everyone (except the bass and drums) gets a couple tunes they sit out on. Keep everyone fresh and you get to waste 5 min saying “we’re bringing the horns back for this one” etc

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

We have a show in 7 weeks, that was booked 6 months ago and have to do 3 sets of 45 minutes, in a venue everyone would agree is a bit more prestigious for musicians, than bars and clubs we are used to play.

With records of previous shows that I did, I have concrete proof we never did more than 2 sets of 43 minutes and 48 minutes.

45 minutes is missing and since 3 months we have 3 songs (covers) in the works and we didn't dared to do them live.

So I calculated we have 30 minutes really missing, so about 6 or 7 more songs (covers) to add.

The BL dared saying he prefers be 20 minutes short than playing song not well for 20 minutes.
We are 30 minutes short, dude, not 20, the maths says it, this is facts.

And he sent private messages saying we added 2 songs to the list for the next rehearsal.
So I sent a message on the group, with 6 or 7 songs that we talked about and that another member like me who is trying to push too, even including songs the BL talked about.

I just want to have that set list filled, and that everyone works on it.

I would like everyone (8 persons) to wake up and realise we are going to get embarassed, but BL would call that beeing negative.

And this situation already happened in the past to a lesser extent, when we started with 1 hours sets, despite pushing for more covers, we fell short twice, and I called we do the first song again to fill the missing time.
It doesn't seems this any lesson was learned from this past experiences, it's like it didn't happened.
It's like they like going to their own doom and enjoy it.

I can't see myself doing anymore rehearsal without seriously adding material.
I can't see myself doing that gig in such conditions.

I can't see a solution and just want to get rid of that un-needed stress, as there isno money on their, just saving the face.

I feel I can't say I am on the path to bailing without it looking like a threat, and create too much unrecoverable bad blood.

7 weeks? To learn 10 songs? What's the problem?

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

99 bottles of beer. Begin again Finnegan. There are plenty of options. Or, do the gig and if it goes south, don’t go back for seconds.

 

[DJ Bebop]

We have a show in 7 weeks, that was booked 6 months ago and have to do 3 sets of 45 minutes, in a venue everyone would agree is a bit more prestigious for musicians, than bars and clubs we are used to play.

With records of previous shows that I did, I have concrete proof we never did more than 2 sets of 43 minutes and 48 minutes.

45 minutes is missing and since 3 months we have 3 songs (covers) in the works and we didn't dared to do them live.

So I calculated we have 30 minutes really missing, so about 6 or 7 more songs (covers) to add.

The BL dared saying he prefers be 20 minutes short than playing song not well for 20 minutes.
We are 30 minutes short, dude, not 20, the maths says it, this is facts.

And he sent private messages saying we added 2 songs to the list for the next rehearsal.
So I sent a message on the group, with 6 or 7 songs that we talked about and that another member like me who is trying to push too, even including songs the BL talked about.

I just want to have that set list filled, and that everyone works on it.

I would like everyone (8 persons) to wake up and realise we are going to get embarassed, but BL would call that beeing negative.

And this situation already happened in the past to a lesser extent, when we started with 1 hours sets, despite pushing for more covers, we fell short twice, and I called we do the first song again to fill the missing time.
It doesn't seems this any lesson was learned from this past experiences, it's like it didn't happened.
It's like they like going to their own doom and enjoy it.

I can't see myself doing anymore rehearsal without seriously adding material.
I can't see myself doing that gig in such conditions.

I can't see a solution and just want to get rid of that un-needed stress, as there isno money on their, just saving the face.

I feel I can't say I am on the path to bailing without it looking like a threat, and create too much unrecoverable bad blood.

It's better to have too many songs than too few.

 

[basseux]

Personally, i'd not worry about it and just let whatever happens happen. Let your BL learn the lessons on his own as it's not your job to manage it. This is 100% not worth stressing over. Also i am sure that a group of talented musicians can figure out a way to fill some time without preparing anything specific in advance.

Also, no pay? How come the prestigious venue is not paying you for a 3 set gig? Yeah cut the gig short, they get what they pay for. Take extra long breaks too.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the band will be paid, and people pay for the gig.

This is the right answer, but...

In an 8 piece band with horns, you must have a couple soloists, and at least a couple songs where you can stretch out the solo sections. Add some vamps, stretch out the slow jams... Maybe even repeat a song or two. Not everybody comes for the downbeat and stays for the third set. If you're not getting paid, I wouldn't sweat it, unless you think slaying this show is going to lead to more and better opportunities.

We are paid. I don't care how much, we were trusted in a venue we believed we couldn't be considered to play.
That as to be worth something, even for hobbyists.

Replaying a song is what we did at earlier shows. It should have served as a lesson.

As a hobbyist, I can't say I care about opportunities, but earlier this year, at a show in another venue, a girl that often saw me play at the weekly jam, told the BL that when she saw I was the bass player, she knew it would be good.

This little flattering things are worth something, and I can't accept that easily to have that squandered without doing nothing.

Don’t try to swim against the flow… you are not the BL and the band knows your worries, you can’t do more now.
Do your best for the show : groove, smile, enjoy.
Then quit.

Not swimming against the flow is a good advice, but at the same time, I don't feel I have to go down the falls with people that didn't do a minimum swimming effort toward the edge.

You know, it's a venue in Paris.
A venue where I paid to see guys like Wallace Rooney.
There is something I just can't admit in what's happening.
I will work on myself, I am just not sure I can do it

I’m with you. If you’ve got players who can pull off that kind of music, you have players who can add six songs in seven weeks with a week to spare. That’s crazy. We have no trouble adding a couple of songs a week and we all have day jobs. (And I’d hesitate to try Jamiroquai or Stevie with this band. )

in my band, we just had a meeting about the same issue, although everyone was on board with how many songs we needed to add and which songs we needed to drop from the last gig. Sounds like the band leader is not quite doing his job in getting the communications flowing and setting expectations for this group, and that’s an important part of his job.

If you can’t get on the same page, and there’s work for you in other bands where you live, I can see where you would put out feelers with other bands.

On the other hand, I would much rather be playing what you’re playing than all the hair metal I’m playing right now!

In hair metal I can understand no one gives a poopie about what the bassist says, by design, but in a funk soul band, you would hope you have a little more leverage than that as the bass player.

 

[basseux]

30 minutes worth of Music, easy to work up, and fits your stuff, unless you already do it.

1.Thank You......Sly and the Family Stone
2. Give me Some Lovin.....Blues Brothers
3. Superstition.....Stevie Wonder
4. Who's Making Love to your old lady, while you were out making love....Blues Brothers
5. Funky Music....Wild Cherry
6. Brick House......Comadores
7. Superfreak.........Rick James
8. Gold on the Ceiling....Black Keys

3 minutes x 8 songs = 24 minute minimum. Add some extended guitar solo's and you reach more than your goal

Songs that were floated in the group chat by different persons, and that I just put together as a list to fill the rest of the set :
- Searching by Roy Ayers
- Soul Man by Same And Dave
- Sweet Thing by Rufus
- Dear My Man by Prince
- The Chicken
- DMSR by Prince
- Rock With You
- Square Biz

I think we need just 6 of such lists because we have Give It To Me Baby, Stomp and Work To Do as work in progress, but you can't imagine how long it takes, when some guys decide that they are not practicing songs if they are not sure we will continue to play them.
3 months we are at it, plus we lost the original singer to pregnancy.
We have a sub that we already used, but she is not really interested in rehearsing 7 weeks to be paid only 100€ for the show ...
The new singer will have to learn 30 songs in 7 weeks, but the pro sub can do it, so it's not looking that good that she rehearse then we said to her that we prefer the pro sub to do it.
That's not looking too good

7 weeks? To learn 10 songs? What's the problem?

Probably the problem is BL not firing people who don't learn songs.
Yes people are nice, we get along well, sometime you think it's the most important, but now, everyone gets a pass for passive aggressively not learning songs.

Either people do not care, or passively aggressively ignore new songs suggestions, I can't know.

Maybe there is a bit of "I proposed that song but Jo, Jack,Jeff, Jerry didn't liked it, so now I won't support any of what they propose", and now it's like the situation is in a deadlock.
Even if it falls on the BL to solve it, as the older of the band, I just can't stand there and watch doing nothing.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the band will be paid, and people pay for the gig.



We are paid. I don't care how much, we were trusted in a venue we believed we couldn't be considered to play.
That as to be worth something, even for hobbyists.

Replaying a song is what we did at earlier shows. It should have served as a lesson.

As a hobbyist, I can't say I care about opportunities, but earlier this year, at a show in another venue, a girl that often saw me play at the weekly jam, told the BL that when she saw I was the bass player, she knew it would be good.

This little flattering things are worth something, and I can't accept that easily to have that squandered without doing nothing.



Not swimming against the flow is a good advice, but at the same time, I don't feel I have to go down the falls with people that didn't do a minimum swimming effort toward the edge.

You know, it's a venue in Paris.
A venue where I paid to see guys like Wallace Rooney.
There is something I just can't admit in what's happening.
I will work on myself, I am just not sure I can do it



In hair metal I can understand no one gives a poopie about what the bassist says, by design, but in a funk soul band, you would hope you have a little more leverage than that as the bass player.

Ok then i reverse stance a bit. If people are literally buying tickets then yes, you all should definitely work up the material for the full slot, and yes, i would be stressed about this. If it's New Morning...you gotta bring your top guns to a gig like that cause that audience is likely used to world class musicians.

 

[Hambone70]

You’ve got some great tunes there that are just crying out for extra/extended solos. A minute here or there will soon add up to 30… or even more!

 

[g-dude]

Do it twice. I’d stick around for that.

Radio station in DC used to play the full version once a week, and said that if you wanted to hear it, tune in then and stop requesting it.

 

[micguy]

I play church gigs, and we do live music during baptisms. A few years, ago, a few of the churches I play at started asking for people to come up and get baptized on the spot - we'd get a couple here and there, but one week, as we only had 2 people signed up, we scheduled just one tune, and.....after the 2 people that had signed up were dunked, they called for people to come up, and.....15 folks came forward. The Pastor has a habit of spending a couple minutes with each person getting baptized, meaning...all told, we played one song for well over half an hour. Louder softer, vocals in, vocals out, every technique in the book was used to keep one tune interesting.

So, in short, the lesson is, you can stretch a tune, providing you've got other things going on to involve the audience. If it's not a church, a dunk tank can stand in for that.

Or you can learn new material.

 

[willddd]

So we have titles from Stevie Wonder, Jamiroquai, Sam And Dave, Amy Winehouse, Larry Graham, Michael Jackson, Crusaders.

This soul funk with a small touch of jazz.

A few extra solos will do it ;-) If you have a couple of decent soloists, absolutely no problem, might even work out better if people are dancing.

 

[willddd]

chameleon

There's 20 minutes right there ;-)

 

[C Niz]

There's 20 minutes right there ;-)

That’s the way I always played it lol didn’t even do the B section in most bands

 

[willddd]

That’s the way I always played it lol didn’t even do the B section in most bands

Hehehe, there is a B section ?

 

[jamro217]

Intro and outro time. Start and end each set with an instrumental (the same one used as a theme song) that is a good fit for the audience. Don't lull them to sleep or jar them into a panic. Use the tune as you introduce the band. Longer solos during the band intro time will stretch it out and not seem lame. This gives you sufficient time to fill the gap, a bit of personality for the band with its own theme song and a smooth transition from set list to break which tips the crowd off as to when they can go potty. Hope this helps.

 

[juggahnaught]

Play the bassline from Rapper's Delight (Good Times, by Chic). You and the drummer can get an extra 10 minutes out of that one.

That said - quit the band, and tell them that you need to take time for other things (which is true) but offer your services as a sub. You can still play and get paid without the same commitment if they need you, and if things do change you might be in a position to take advantage of it.

 

[KenD]

"Here's one we played earlier and had a request to do again"