• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Set list with standard and half-step down tuning

#21
For my original project band I only need one bass, tuned in E, with a Hipshot to drop down to D.
My last cover band was another story. To minimize the "dead space" between guitar & tuning changes I needed 3 basses minimum - one tuned to E with a Hipshot to drop to D, a second tuned to E flat (also with a hipshot tuner), and a third to cover the drop C & B tunings. Probably would have been much easier if I played a fiver, but they just never felt right to me.
 
#25
Benton said:
Two Basses or a 5 string.

If you are retuning it wll mess with the action and intonation. Lots of tension difference will pull and relax the neck. TRhat will change intonation as well as the action.

Two basses one in standard tuning and one in Flat. You may want heavier string for the lowered tuning. Definatly truss rod and bridge tweeking, maybe nut work, a set up. There are some pretty decent basses that can can do the job (Squire, Ibenez,Peavey, Slammer) for not alot of money.

My solution is 5 string. I'm always changing keys when I play with my wife (likes the Capo) and the 5er makes the transpositions alot easier.
Click to expand...

THIS^

My solution is also a 5 string. Since I also play guitar let me say that a down-tuned guitar often sounds fuller and richer and thus is a favorite thing for guitarists to do! Note that scales and patterns CAN NOT be moved around the neck of a guitar so generally the way to do this (and solve all the neck instability and relaxation problems) is to have multiple guitars EACH with a tuning you use on a song. There are some other less common solutions such as my Gibson "robot" tuned guitars that will tune themselves to 7 or 8 different tunings reasonably accurately and the hipshot bridge with three detunings on each string (though it's a lot less stable than the robots), but the general working solution is multiple guitars.

Enter the bass players. Somehow it seems that guitarists have convinced bass players that THEY TOO need to "downtune". You don't. First slackening a bass (which is already about at the limit of low notes out of the strings) makes it sound worse, not better, unless you get heavier strings. Second since a bass is tuned in 4ths you can move any patterns around the bass starting on any fret or any note. And lastly as noted above basses have a lot of tension in the neck which shows itself as instability in tuning and intonation when changing tunings.

Hence the only reasonable solution to the "down-tuning" problem if you feel you MUST do it is to have a bass set up for each tuning, with the right strings etc and stabilized and ready to go just like the guitarists do.

The best solution in my book is to use a 5 or 6 string bass tuned to standard tuning and learn the patterns on various positions on the neck. And for each key the songs are in you simply start the song on the appropriate note on the neck for the given key. (capo, down-tuned, or otherwise).

This is all I know.
 
#27
Since most of the time we play one note at a time, we don't need to be in the exact same tuning. So I would probably keep my bass in dropped tuning and just play up a fret when needed. Or maybe I'd get a Hipshot detuner and tune down the E to a D for the dropped tuning stuff. I know I wouldn't use a 5-string, that's for sure ;)

However, if your level of musical knowledge isn't to the level where you can play without knowing what the guitarist is doing unless you're tuned the same way, then your only solution is use two basses or get good at the nuts and bolts of musical knowledge quick!
 
#28
JimmyM said:
Since most of the time we play one note at a time, we don't need to be in the exact same tuning. So I would probably keep my bass in dropped tuning and just play up a fret when needed. Or maybe I'd get a Hipshot detuner and tune down the E to a D for the dropped tuning stuff. I know I wouldn't use a 5-string, that's for sure ;)

However, if your level of musical knowledge isn't to the level where you can play without knowing what the guitarist is doing unless you're tuned the same way, then your only solution is use two basses or get good at the nuts and bolts of musical knowledge quick!
Click to expand...

Btw, just exactly how does a hipshot work? Yes, I'm the last person on Earth to know apparently. Lol.
 
#29
It's a tuner with a lever on it that you flip when you want to drop your tuning, and you pull it back for when you want to be in regular tuning. It'll drop from a half step to 4 half steps down.
 
#31
I have 5 string basses, and I can transpose drop tunings on them without any trouble, BUT....

I am continually surprised by how much difference just tuning a half step down (or keeping in standard tuning) makes to the feel of a song. I can't really explain why, logically, it shouldn't make any difference playing a song that was originally dropped a half step in standard (as long as the vocalist can handle it) but it actually seems, to my ears at least, to make a huge difference to the overall vibe - I'm talking about the vibe of the overall band here not just the bassline.

I am less surprised that playing dropped tuned songs on a 5 string also sounds less convincing. One song that our band plays is Thin Lizzy's "Waiting for an Alibi". It was originally played tuned a semitone down and doesn't seem to sound right played in standard tuning. I've also played it on my 5 string in rehearsals and it dosn't sound right playing the Eb on the B string either. So...

I use my Ric for standard tuning, which is all of the first set. There is one song, The Cult's "She sells sanctuary" where I quickly drop the E string to D, and back up to E again for the next song. I would like to get a hipshot detuner for that, but I'm not about to replace a wavy Grover on my now vintage Ric just for that. The only songs that I switch basses for in the first set are a block of 3 songs where I use fretless.

The first few songs in the second set are all songs that were originally detuned (including the Thin Lizzy example above). I use my new Epi T-Bird Pro IV for these songs. I bought it specifically for this purpose so that I could set the bass up for being detuned all the time - and to get a different sound to the Ric and, frankly, because it looks so damn cool. The downtuned portion of the set is punctuated by the Foo Fighters "Pretender" and The Killers "When you were young", these songs are not next door to each other in the set so I just transpose those songs into their original tuning. There is also Black Stone Cherry's "Blind Man", where the Eb tuned Epi gets a further drop tuning with the Eb going down to Db.

So there are a lot of ways to handle it, but two basses works best for me.
 
#32
kawika5150 said:
Hmm, so that may be another option?
Click to expand...

Hip Shot is an option. That will solve the tuning on ONE string...

Although personally, I only used a HipShot to tune down a Whole Step. I never tried it for a Half Set (I don't have the bass anymore with it on so I cant try it).

If you did tune down the one string to Eb to solve your open Eb issue, you are going to need to re-learn fingerings and get used to playing tri-tone fingering rather than perfect 5th or 4ths and octaves are going to be like playing Maj7ths..

I don't know, personally, that will feel weird to me rather than tuning down to D and playing "5ths" as 4ths and octaves as b7ths fingers.

The patterns of the bass will totally change.

hrmm...

My vote for Half Step Down Tuning if a 5 string isnt an option would be another bass.

If it was an open D or whole step Drown Tune, HipShot.
 
#33
Depends on the other songs, if they didn't involve lots of open strings I'd leave it Eb & play in different positions, otherwise I'd have a 2 bass in Eb and swap them.

How would you play something like this on a 5 string? ignore the hammer on and pluck the individual notes?

Gb:-----------------------------------------|
Db:-----------------------------------------|
Ab:-------------------------------0h7-7-7-|
Eb:-0h7-0h7-0h7-0h7-0h5-0h5----------|
 
#37
I played I a hard rock band for a couple of years now. I need for a gig standard, half step and drop d for each. I have one bass tuned half step down and use a capo to get back up to standard. Simple and I don't need 4 instruments like my guitarist!!!
 
#38
kawika5150 said:
Not sure if this is in the right forum, but here's my question:

How do you deal with a set list for a performance that has both standard and half-step down tuning? Do you bring two basses or just tune up/down after a specific song? Do you just have a set portion of songs all with the same tuning so you don't have to keep going up and down?

I find it a waste of time to keep changing the tuning after a couple of songs then going back. I'm suggesting the first set is either one tuning or the other. After a break, we could do the other.

How do you handle it?
Click to expand...

Do you actually play a low Eb in any of your songs? If you don't - then you don't need to downtune. If you do, my recommendation is to just downtune for everything, and learn the songs that need a low E one half-step higher. Or get a five string.

Guitar players who do not understand bass have asked me before to downtune just because they are downtuned, as they consider the bass just a guitar with four strings that you use to play roots. I've never actually *had* to downtune... but I also am not dependent on open strings, I fret notes wherever possible - just the way I was trained, so I can have a consistent tone regardless of note choice. This is actually the main reason why a five-string appeals to me (although I only play/own four-strings), so I can play a low E in a higher register, and get fat notes like I do elsewhere. Being able to play an Eb, or a low C# for that matter, is icing on the cake.

If you do need to downtune for just an Eb, it's only a half-step, so no big deal to just do it to all strings and just leave it there.
 
#39
I have Two MIM jazz 5 String basses (2001 and 2006 FTW) that I use to cover the 3 tunings I need, Standard, Flat and Drop A.

Changing Basses really isn't an issue for me, even if changing back and forth. a Pedal tuner with a Mute switch here however is essential and I have a Hipshot D tuner for the Drop A (does that technically make it an A Tuner?)

either way find something that works for you and go with it, none of these options is wrong, just different solutions for different people with the same issue.
 
#40
What's the appeal to making your lives so complicated? In 40 years of gigging, this is the first I've read about this. I assume this is for concert work and not club stuff, right?

Assuming you are doing covers, isn't there enough material out there, that you can play in standard tunings, in keys that work for the singers? Only the band is going to know the difference. People in the audience or club aren't going to notice squat.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back