Double Bass Settings for GK amp

[stockbass]

The BP-100 is a very nasal, twangy sounding outdated pickup. Because of it's extremely close proximity to the strings, there is little to no "woody" sound in the equation.

I would seriously consider getting a better pickup.

For a nice fat Bluegrass sound I would recommend a Bassmax, or Underwood (using E side pickup only) which are both bridge wing pickups. The David Gage Realist is also very popular and picks up the sound under the bridge foot, which can sound very natural but can also have more feedback issues at higher volumes.

Do some reading on pickups here and it should help you make your decision.

I've played several basses with the BP-100 who sounded great amped. But then I've played basses who sounded just ok or even like crap with the fishman. You just have to try it - however do not miss to use a high imp buffer.

Sorry, but I've not found the Realist more to feedback than other PU:s at higher volumes. Again, it depends on a lot of different aspects.

My 2 cents is shop around and try as many basses, pu:s, strings, string heights etc as you can. If you find something that works for you, stick with that and sell the stuff that you don't need.

 

[Jaromir]

I've played several basses with the BP-100 who sounded great amped. But then I've played basses who sounded just ok or even like crap with the fishman. You just have to try it - however do not miss to use a high imp buffer.

Sorry, but I've not found the Realist more to feedback than other PU:s at higher volumes. Again, it depends on a lot of different aspects.

My 2 cents is shop around and try as many basses, pu:s, strings, string heights etc as you can. If you find something that works for you, stick with that and sell the stuff that you don't need.

I agree totally - except selling the stuff. You might regret it within three months or so...

 

[bolo]

The D and G strings only sound about half as loud as the E and A strings. Seems to me they should all sound equally loud.

The BP-100 has two elements, yes? What happens if you switch them around? Maybe one of the elements or its wiring is on its way out.

Bobby King's post re: working w/ the dials on the GK made the most sense to me out of many of the posts that preceded it, including mine.

 

[Gearhead43]

I've never heard anyone say that the Fishman BP-100 sounded "great" on any bass, especially for Bluegrass.

I play too loud to even consider the Realist as an option, but I mentioned it to the OP because he seems to be playing at lower volume levels judging by the amp he is using.

I like the Underwood, using just one transducer on the E side of my bridge. With proper EQ, I can get a nice fat woody tone that has a very punchy quality I like alot, and very little feedback at very loud volume levels. I run the Underwood into a Fishman Pro Platinum Bass preamp and am very satisfied with my sound.

Everyone has to wade through the muck of available double bass amplification choices and find out what works best for themselves, but it's nice to have a nudge in the right direction.

 

[Jefenator]

Been using my GK Micro for over 10 years and I love it. It's my primary amp, gets used more often than the big rig. My upright and numerous electrics all work great for me thru it. Never once felt a need to mess with the EQ in any way. Everything always at 12 o'clock, including the hi boost & contour mini-knobs. (I'm seriously tempted to epoxy the knobs in place so I don't have to reset them after the amp goes rolling around the back of my car. ) Every once in awhile I use the bass cut switch if the room is boomy or if the amp is having trouble keeping up.

That's just my experience and it wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't lucked out with a great bass/pickup combination. ('40s Kay / Realist / Biesele).

IME it's very important to run most "acoustic" pickups through some kind of "buffer" preamp before plugging in to most amps (including the GK). You can get in to the theory with input impedence etc... or just try out as many 9V battery powered gizmos as you can and go with the one that sounds best. (While the Biesele preamp was getting repaired, I found my Ibanez Tube Screamer pedal worked best... bypass mode, of course!) If the signal is not properly "buffered", it tends to sound thin and umusical and all the EQ in the world won't fix it. (DAMHIK)

Hope this helps...

 

[stockbass]

I've never heard anyone say that the Fishman BP-100 sounded "great" on any bass, especially for Bluegrass.

Well, the Fishman prones to be stringy, but it seems that on some instruments, fitted just the right way, the fishman can give a very good sound. Not at all scratchy or stringy.

I do not quite follow the idea of a pickup for good sound for bluegrass - IMO that is more a question of the instrument itself, strings and string height. (Not to mention the player.) /Tom

 

[Rebop]

This is how I mount my BP-100 after much struggle and frustration to get any decent sound from it. Huge reduction in string noise and lots of bottom...
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The felt furniture leg gliders under each wing of the bridge are easy to find and really inexpensive (under $2).

Another bonus is they are available in the exact diameter of the pickups.

The pads will be a little snug to get under the wings, and tricky because they have self adhesive backs. Once you get them in there, (I recommend a dry fit first; you may need to compress them a little with a pair of pliers) gently work the pickup elements into place. I also added a small piece of neoprene (from a beer cozy) to keep the pickup lead from vibrating in the center hole of the bridge.
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NOTE: this pickup seems to have a weird little spike in the EQ at around 2.5K, regardless. I also do not use a preamp; everything is manipulated with my Eden head (gain at 2 o'clock).
IMHO, Mr. Fishman didn't think out the mounting too well on this model and should revise it.

 

[Alain Bass]

Rebop
On witch side do you put the pickup elements who's not centered?
the E or G wing?

 

[Bobby King]

My two cents on pickups:

The BP 100 is usually very uneven in response. I would try something different.

Many bluegrass and country players have long used the Underwood pickup, but only use one element. Experiment by taking out either side and seeing which you prefer. This gets a more scooped, thumpier sound; and it gets a pretty even response and it amplifies well.

The Realist sounds great on some basses, usually carved tops work better than ply with this pickup. It's very "woody" and natural, some think it can be "muddy", and it is problematic at higher volumes. But I've heard some basses sound great with this one.

The Full Circle is a good pickup, a little more "present" than the Realist and you can adjust it to be more "focused" or more "open".

The Upton Rev Solo pickup is decent, more microphonic than the Underwood, decent tone.

Sometimes I wonder if pickups that use two elements have phase cancellation issues?
The Underwood sounds thinner and nasal with both attached. The BP-100 has funny response issues. It's seems that the ones with one contact area work best. (but there are lots of others that I've never tried)

 

[Bobby King]

Been using my GK Micro for over 10 years and I love it. It's my primary amp, gets used more often than the big rig. My upright and numerous electrics all work great for me thru it. Never once felt a need to mess with the EQ in any way. Everything always at 12 o'clock, including the hi boost & contour mini-knobs.

Just want to point out that at 12 o'clock, the contour is scooping quite a bit of midrange. But that usually helps get rid of the "nasal" sound. I'd maybe go a little less than halfway. Also, that's a good bit of high boost.

Someone said in this thread that 12 o'clock is flat on this amp's tone controls, but I think that's incorrect. I believe they're just additive. It's certainly not the case with the contour and hi-boost.

 

[tornadobass]

Someone said in this thread that 12 o'clock is flat on this amp's tone controls, but I think that's incorrect. I believe they're just additive. It's certainly not the case with the contour and hi-boost.

The tone controls are +/-, while the voicing controls go only one way.

I've attached a jpeg from the owner's manual that shows the EQ points and their amount of cut/boost. Note that these controls have less range than the controls on most current amps that are in the +/- 12 or 16 range.

 

[Bobby King]

The tone controls are +/-, while the voicing controls go only one way.

Well I was mistaken about that, sorry!

That's interesting about the contour, it's adding @ 80hz and 8khz while cutting @ 600hz -- your basic smiley EQ curve

600, 630, 650, are good places to cut to get a "warmer" sound. That's the nasty midrange area for bass, but cutting too much there will make things muddy/boomy. Sometimes adding a little 1.5k can give nice definition. Bass tone is very much about the mids.

As far as high-end, that can be a matter of taste. 4-5k will give more "edge". 7-8k is more "sparkle".

Mixing will teach you a lot about frequencies and EQ.

 

[bolo]

The Upton Rev Solo pickup is decent, more microphonic than the Underwood, decent tone.

Bobby, your summary of the various p/u's general traits sounds fine to me. Just wanted to add that on some basses (like mine), you get distinctly different tones w/ the "R" symbol on the Rev Solo facing the body vs. facing away from the body.

The instructions I got with my first RS said you can install it either way, but in parenthesis it said "(most basses will sound best with the 'R' side facing the strings)". I've noticed that they have since removed that remark from their instructions.

When I use it that way on my bass, it results in lots of string emphasis and definition. But I get what I consider a much fuller sound with more body and wood w/ the RS flipped over. With different strings on my bass, I think I can envision it working pretty well in a bluegrass or traditional music setting (if I had to use a pickup).

 

[Rebop]

Rebop
On witch side do you put the pickup elements who's not centered?
the E or G wing?

It's setup symmetrically.

There is a pickup under each wing and the wire passes through the center hole.

 

[Jefenator]

Just want to point out that at 12 o'clock, the contour is scooping quite a bit of midrange. But that usually helps get rid of the "nasal" sound. I'd maybe go a little less than halfway. Also, that's a good bit of high boost.

It was my understanding that 12 o'clock on the contour & hi boost is not a "flat" setting. But that's where I like 'em! I found they both add pleasing qualities but cranking them all the way would be too much.

It's definitely not a "natural" sounding amp at all - there's plenty of coloration. But at low volume levels, said coloration seems to agree with every bass I've ever tried through it.

Not so for keyboards & vocals! (In an emergency, I once ran the PA mix into the GK - used it as a powered main. That was pretty bad.)

 

[Gearhead43]

I think a bit of a built-in mid-scoop or even a touch more with EQ can help tame the nasal barky midrange response of most piezo pickups.

There's a reason why some bass guitar amps tend to sound "better" (to some) with DB than others when set flat, (one being input impedance) and the other being the slight mid-scoop present in most GK amps. Of course this all boils down to taste and musical style, and it can be overdone, but I like to scoop my mids a bit to get a more open airy sound.

On some amps, dialing in a perfectly "flat" setting can just let through too much of that harsh piezo midrange, IMHO.

 

[Bobby King]

I think a bit of a built-in mid-scoop or even a touch more with EQ can help tame the nasal barky midrange response of most piezo pickups.

There's a reason why some bass guitar amps tend to sound "better" (to some) with DB than others when set flat, (one being input impedance) and the other being the slight mid-scoop present in most GK amps. Of course this all boils down to taste and musical style, and it can be overdone, but I like to scoop my mids a bit to get a more open airy sound.

On some amps, dialing in a perfectly "flat" setting can just let through too much of that harsh piezo midrange, IMHO.

I definitely agree, and that's also why going direct with a pickup can be a crapshoot. Depending on the system it can sound OK or it can sound like midrange from hell!

Actually this brings to mind that I'd like some advice. Usually I use a little amp when I play upright live, and if I send a DI signal it's from the amp and has been EQ'd to my liking. But I'm going to be doing some gigs with a bluegrass artist and I was told that there's a few venues where they hate to see amps on stage So, can anyone recommend a good DI box/preamp for upright? Sansamp, Radial, etc.? Something where I can do a little of that mid-scoop if necessary.

Thanks!

 

[Rebop]

I use a passive DI and politely discuss with the soundman which frequency I want/need pulled out.

 

[Jefenator]

I run my URB direct in to the PA a lot (especially when I'm running the board ). With the Biesele magnetic pickup actively buffering and mixing in the piezo pickup signal, I'm pretty much good to go, right from the output jack.

If you want some EQ to tweak with, maybe that Fishman battery-powered unit? (Never used it myself but it seems like the right type of gizmo...)

 

[bolo]

So, can anyone recommend a good DI box/preamp for upright? Sansamp, Radial, etc.? Something where I can do a little of that mid-scoop if necessary.

Bobby, in this forum there are some posts (most of them old) re: the SansAmp Para Driver DI for upright. Note - Some people use the Bass Driver DI, but I think the concensus is that the Para is better for DB, in large part because it has a sweepable mid-EQ, while the BDDI has no mid EQ. There are also some posts on the L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI. You'd have to search this forum a bit, but I think the remarks here were mostly very positive for both units. Maybe someone will chime in with a more recent update.

I wish there were more posts in this forum re: the Radial boxes. But comments re: use w/ DB are pretty sparse, again just within the context of this forum.

I sometimes use a D-TAR Solstice for blending a p/u and a mic. Beaucoup output routing options. Bass EQ knob is voiced for guitar (around 155 Hz I think). Makes a good sound (i.e. very transparent). Mid EQ is fixed at ~ 800 Hz.