Is the change that you’re seeing really about beliefs or music/production value? Or is the change more about the pursuit of pulling the almighty dollar from parishioners’ pockets?
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Should I stay or should I go?
- Thread starter tb-player
- Start date
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Priorities. If it isn't doing it for you, time to move on.
Reality is that this is a circumstance where philosophical and creative differences have developed along with a change in relationships among the persons who are delivering the musical product.
The emotional attachment may be greater because of your feelings about and ties to the church, but the fact remains that you are describing a circumstance that exists commonly in secular settings as well.
My suggestion is that you do your best to separate yourself from the emotional/faith side of your question and really examine whether what is happening is something you are questioning because: 1) You don't like the music. 2) You don't care for the leadership. 3) You don't care for the musicians personally and/or stylistically. 4) It just isn't satisfying and fun anymore. 5) Add any other criteria you want.
My thought is that if you are answering in the affirmative to most of the negatives I've noted above, plus those you might add, it might be time for a break. Number 4 in my list above has become the most important to me. Life is just too short to keep struggling along with something that isn't fun and brings no satisfaction. If you're good at what you do, other doors will open.
Hope this is helpful.
Koog
The emotional attachment may be greater because of your feelings about and ties to the church, but the fact remains that you are describing a circumstance that exists commonly in secular settings as well.
My suggestion is that you do your best to separate yourself from the emotional/faith side of your question and really examine whether what is happening is something you are questioning because: 1) You don't like the music. 2) You don't care for the leadership. 3) You don't care for the musicians personally and/or stylistically. 4) It just isn't satisfying and fun anymore. 5) Add any other criteria you want.
My thought is that if you are answering in the affirmative to most of the negatives I've noted above, plus those you might add, it might be time for a break. Number 4 in my list above has become the most important to me. Life is just too short to keep struggling along with something that isn't fun and brings no satisfaction. If you're good at what you do, other doors will open.
Hope this is helpful.
Koog
Life is finite. Go to that church if you feel at home there. Continue to play there if you are comfortable doing so or move on. Sounds like (I am assuming...) you are feeling an obligation to play in this situation. If you are enjoying it, keep on. If not, move on.
But before you go, fire the drummer or at least fire the click track. This is TalkBass, after all.
Good luck in your decision.
But before you go, fire the drummer or at least fire the click track. This is TalkBass, after all.
Good luck in your decision.
I dropped a praise Team because of that reason either people can play and sing or they can’t
Worship Karaoke is not for me
Duke
Worship Karaoke is not for me
Duke
I grew up playing in the church. I started when I was 11. My Mum and dad were both in the worship band so I just “grew up” doing it. It was an incredible learning experience.
Around 17-18, I just left. It was just time.
It’s up to you to just follow your gut, instinct and heart.
Around 17-18, I just left. It was just time.
It’s up to you to just follow your gut, instinct and heart.
Several observations here from an old dude who happens to play bass.
The praise and worship bands of today are very very similar to what I played in dance and show bands in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. There wasn't much difference between Alabama (the band) and The Eagles. Drums, keys, guitars, bass, singers. Many musical lines were crossed back then and are still being crossed today. Is it church music? Or is it pop music? Could be both at times.
Music can be very controlled these days. The Marshall that one of our guitarists plays thru is behind the choir loft in a sound-proof room! I play DI and we use IEM. Those who are talented in running computer pads and so forth can really add to the experience in a large church that can afford those things. A very small country church will not have the money, and probably won't have anyone who's even heard of a drum pad for instance.
I've moved three times in the past 15 years and each time find myself attending a smaller church. The one I'm in now has about 140 members. I play more now than I ever have in the past and we have three who can play bass! But I know just about every member or regular attender. My wife knows every preschooler, and sends cards to each and every one on their 'big days.' I get hugs and pats on the back. Back to the music - every church I've played at in the past 15 years has played the same music. BUT I really never knew anyone at the first one (about 1,000 members) and only a dozen or so at the second church (about 400 members.)
I love playing bass but that's not why I attend church. My wife and I are involved with other areas. For us, that's what being a part of a church is really about. For me - music is only a part of why I'm at any church. Hope you find your answer.
The praise and worship bands of today are very very similar to what I played in dance and show bands in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. There wasn't much difference between Alabama (the band) and The Eagles. Drums, keys, guitars, bass, singers. Many musical lines were crossed back then and are still being crossed today. Is it church music? Or is it pop music? Could be both at times.
Music can be very controlled these days. The Marshall that one of our guitarists plays thru is behind the choir loft in a sound-proof room! I play DI and we use IEM. Those who are talented in running computer pads and so forth can really add to the experience in a large church that can afford those things. A very small country church will not have the money, and probably won't have anyone who's even heard of a drum pad for instance.
I've moved three times in the past 15 years and each time find myself attending a smaller church. The one I'm in now has about 140 members. I play more now than I ever have in the past and we have three who can play bass! But I know just about every member or regular attender. My wife knows every preschooler, and sends cards to each and every one on their 'big days.' I get hugs and pats on the back. Back to the music - every church I've played at in the past 15 years has played the same music. BUT I really never knew anyone at the first one (about 1,000 members) and only a dozen or so at the second church (about 400 members.)
I love playing bass but that's not why I attend church. My wife and I are involved with other areas. For us, that's what being a part of a church is really about. For me - music is only a part of why I'm at any church. Hope you find your answer.
The most obvious problem I alluded to. Can’t say much more without a religious discussion.
Your church is transitioning into playing to people. That is the problem. You know the difference and you sense it inside.
Your church is transitioning into playing to people. That is the problem. You know the difference and you sense it inside.
Yeah, I’ve completely lost that. Thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds more healthy that mine.
I'm not a church goer but if the band was fun to play with I would join one. It really comes down to the gigs. Is it "I have to play with the band today" or "I get to play with the band today"? 
I sure can identify with this. I served 23 three years in music ministry. When I started, it was a church of about 800 with a daycare, that mostly covered hymns and southern gospel material, that 2 executive pastors, 20 or so subordinate pastors, 9 praise and worship pastors, later became a 503c with a daycare, a K-12 school, and an affiliation with a college for undergrad work, an after school program for kids at risk (like court ordered attendance for delinquents), a family counseling business, that oh by the way had a church of 1500 playing CCLI’s top 100.
I became the band leader after the first praise and worship leader left about 3 years into my ministry. When my last PWL was hired, we had the core band which had a solid core of professional level players, and a horn a string section of mostly student lead by a conservatory grad. With in two years, the horn/string section was gone, and players in the core band worth a hoot quit serving, leaving me and one of 3 drummers trying to keep things together.
We would have a rehearsal on our own time o Mondays and have the service locked down. Sunday morning, PWL comes in with reconfigured charts 15 minutes before the service started, for the rhythm section, of which I’m the only one fluid enough to read. There were never and charts for the horns/string section.
The poor drummers that learn their parts by rote…. It used to be a drummers only had to learn one drum cadence a song, the beginning and the end. Today’s CCLI music could have 5 or 6 different drum parts. One for each verse or repeated phrase that need to be memorized. So when the PWL comes in with these changes 15 minutes before service, the drummers are totally lost, and spent a lot of their own time working on things they never used. Consequently, the good drummers left as it was too much work to do 4 songs a week as many as 20 different drum parts on their own time from their heart, only to have that work toss as worthless.
Meanwhile, as “band leader” I’m get all the heat from players frustrations, the quality of the musicianship is going down the tubes, the Executive Pastor is tone deaf, content that if nobody complains, and as long as he can stand up there each Sunday grab the congregation by the ankles and shake money out of them, everything is fine.
The PWL is saying he isn’t hearing any objections from the other musicians. Of course not. All the serious musicians quit, and I joined them.
We move out of state a few months ago and having a house built. Once that settles, there is a much smaller campus of a larger church down the road from us we may start attending and I might give it another go, but right now, I have no call like I did at the past church.
Nothing lasts forever, which is why enjoying the moment is so important!
You have no obligation to any Church or set of beliefs. Indeed beliefs change all the time, both for people and organizations/groups. For me it all comes down to what value are you getting out of continuing on there and what are you giving up to be there.
But at the end of the day it's your life, your spiritual and musical journey, and your time. You should spend it in the way that brings you the most fulfillment.
You have no obligation to any Church or set of beliefs. Indeed beliefs change all the time, both for people and organizations/groups. For me it all comes down to what value are you getting out of continuing on there and what are you giving up to be there.
But at the end of the day it's your life, your spiritual and musical journey, and your time. You should spend it in the way that brings you the most fulfillment.
I see you found the P&W thread. there’s good folks there, but you’ve got solid responses here in this thread that I concur with as well.
I played nearly every week at our former church up in central NJ suburbia. We moved a couple of years ago to be closer to my job, and now live in a fairly rural part of the state. When we first started shopping for houses we found a small, non-denominational church out here in the country with very non-pretentious people and a good spirit.
About the time that we actually moved the church had a major shift, previous pastor left & they found a new pastor, and they aligned themselves with a denomination that is the same as a local mega-church.
the feel of the former church is gone completely.
Many have moved on and at some point I’ll probably do the same.
I played nearly every week at our former church up in central NJ suburbia. We moved a couple of years ago to be closer to my job, and now live in a fairly rural part of the state. When we first started shopping for houses we found a small, non-denominational church out here in the country with very non-pretentious people and a good spirit.
About the time that we actually moved the church had a major shift, previous pastor left & they found a new pastor, and they aligned themselves with a denomination that is the same as a local mega-church.
the feel of the former church is gone completely.
Many have moved on and at some point I’ll probably do the same.
It’s been decades since I played in church, but at the time I used (privately) refer to the Sunday evening as “The Letterman Show” for this very reason. It was fun, but not my thing going forward.
Did any organization EVER willingly give up a free volunteer?
Just my 2 cents, but you're making this was harder and more complicated than it is. Are you having fun? It sounds like they are squeezing out the old guard and they are making it less about the music. I'd bail without a second thought. I don't like micro managers and I especially detest people that try to do it under the guise of religion.
I have been a professional church musician for most of my life. I think the thing that we have to remember is that show biz is a part of a church service. It is a production, designed to impact and influence as many viewers as possible. We live in a modern technological world, and like it’s secular counterparts,, the church also must use modern marvels to reach its audience. Many purists view this as selling out, or straying from the original directives of the church; while progressives view it as keeping up with the times, and making use of the available technology.
while a church service and a Broadway production may share a lot in common, they do have vastly different goals. The Broadway show is for entertainment and profit, while the church service uses the entertainment to lead followers to a higher purpose. Instead of shunning the addition of modern conveniences, try to view it as a way to give the message A fighting chance against its secular competition.
and finally, I want to point out the advantages of being a church musician. The environment is substance and alcohol free, you are surrounded by nicer than average humans, Your contributions are supported, encouraged, and appreciated, and there is very little backstabbing and ego plays. I doubt you will get the same offer in the secular world.
while a church service and a Broadway production may share a lot in common, they do have vastly different goals. The Broadway show is for entertainment and profit, while the church service uses the entertainment to lead followers to a higher purpose. Instead of shunning the addition of modern conveniences, try to view it as a way to give the message A fighting chance against its secular competition.
and finally, I want to point out the advantages of being a church musician. The environment is substance and alcohol free, you are surrounded by nicer than average humans, Your contributions are supported, encouraged, and appreciated, and there is very little backstabbing and ego plays. I doubt you will get the same offer in the secular world.
