• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Should I Try A BBE Sonic Maximizer?

#41
kleinenenten said:
How could I find that out? Is it the 10khz from my cut switch?
Click to expand...

You are not understanding a HPF. The fdeck 3 has a user adjustable HPF from 35 Hz to 140 HZ, everything above that selection passes through, below that is "blocked" (actually rolled off). If you have frequencies below where your cab (or the room) can reproduce eliminating those frequencies frees up power from the amp that would have been wasted.

The 10KHz filter cut switch is actually a LPF (low pass filter) Everything below 10KHz (or lower than 10KHz) is allowed to pass unimpeded.
 
#42
B-string said:
You are not understanding a HPF. The fdeck 3 has a user adjustable HPF from 35 Hz to 140 HZ, everything above that selection passes through, below that is "blocked" (actually rolled off). If you have frequencies below where your cab (or the room) can reproduce eliminating those frequencies frees up power from the amp that would have been wasted.

The 10KHz filter cut switch is actually a LPF (low pass filter) Everything below 10KHz (or lower than 10KHz) is allowed to pass unimpeded.
Click to expand...

So, in my case, using a NEO 410, which has a range of 30Hz to 19kHz, I could set the two filters on the Series 3 to cut below 30Hz and above 19kHz (or thereabout) and keep my cab from farting out as fast (i.e. gaining usable headroom on the input knob)?

EDIT: After looking some more, there is a set filter at 35Hz, and an adjustable filter between 35Hz and 140kHz. How much lows (if any) would I lose for those 5Hz difference between my cab and the FDeck? I know that the fundamental of my low B is 31Hz, but that the amps don't typically amplify that too much, and instead my amp only amplifies the upper octaves of it and our ears fill in the rest. So, my gut is that the 5Hz difference won't really make a difference. Is that correct?
 
#43
kleinenenten said:
So, in my case, using a NEO 410, which has a range of 30Hz to 19kHz, I could set the two filters on the Series 3 to cut below 30Hz and above 19kHz (or thereabout) and keep my cab from farting out as fast (i.e. gaining usable headroom on the input knob)?
Click to expand...

It is only one filter in the HPF 3, The 30Hz is I believe the -10db point (just barely usable). Use your ears to set the frequency of the HPF, most likely between 40 and 50 Hz. It is those frequencies below that can rob power and cause "farting". Unless you are playing DB the most prominent frequencies coming from your bass will be the second harmonic not the fundamental (low B or E stage rumble). Upper frequencies are an ear choice and the "information" from a bass guitar above around 12KHz is pretty weak.
 
#45
B-string said:
It is only one filter in the HPF 3, The 30Hz is I believe the -10db point (just barely usable). Use your ears to set the frequency of the HPF, most likely between 40 and 50 Hz. It is those frequencies below that can rob power and cause "farting". Unless you are playing DB the most prominent frequencies coming from your bass will be the second harmonic not the fundamental (low B or E stage rumble). Upper frequencies are an ear choice and the "information" from a bass guitar above around 12KHz is pretty weak.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just noticed that and edited my previous post as you were likely writing yours!
 
#46
kleinenenten said:
Yeah, I just noticed that and edited my previous post as you were likely writing yours!
Click to expand...

No problem just trying to help you understand all this techy stuff.
The -3db point on the cab IIRC is 41HZ, that is point of notable loss of volume output so 5 to 10 HZ will just be a speaker and amp power saver. Even though the coupling is lost (very low sound pressure output) below the lowest frequency of the cab the cones can move easily as they are no longer restrained by air loading with little amp power.
 
#47
B-string said:
No problem just trying to help you understand all this techy stuff.
The -3db point on the cab IIRC is 41HZ, that is point of notable loss of volume output so 5 to 10 HZ will just be a speaker and amp power saver. Even though the coupling is lost (very low sound pressure output) below the lowest frequency of the cab the cones can move easily as they are no longer restrained by air loading with little amp power.
Click to expand...

OK, I think I've got it. Basically, there will be minimal difference in volume loss to my ears (if any) since the cab cuts off volume well before that anyway. And without all the extra effort of trying to amplify sounds it can't do, the cab will be more efficient, leading to more usable headroom on the amp, and "tighter" bass response since those stray frequencies aren't being attempted and sounding "off" in the unsuccessful attempt.

I hope that's it! Thanks as always, B!
 
#49
Some info from the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Note: At higher playing levels the contour
should be set lower for mid-range clarity. To
get 800RB voicing, the contour should be set to
0 or 10 only.

Contour:
The Contour is based on the same contour
circuit as the 800RB, but adds a variable control for
precise tone shaping. With the control at zero, the
response is essentially ‘flat’, as in no shaping. As
the contour is increased, it scoops out the midrange
while subtly emphasizing the lows and highs.
Additionally, it compensates to keep the overall
volume level constant. With it’s variable control, the
Contour will accomodate everyone from the smooth
finger-style player to the aggressive slap player.

Presence:
The Presence control adds extra sparkle
on the high-end for better clarity and ‘openness’ in
your tone. This is particularly useful when soloing
or playing chords.

Note: The GK manual does not have anything about the amp having an HPF built-in.

There is a mega-thread on the fdeck hpf v3 you may want to check out. An hpf protects your speaker's lowend and tightens up your tone by eliminating
inaudible bass junk tones that your speakers are trying to reproduce while sucking lots of power from your amp.

Also, going wireless or getting a 30-40' cord to go FOH during sound check so you can hear yourself in the mix may help in adjusting your tone. Possibly have someone else sit in on one of your sound check tunes if nothing else is available.

Another tip is to put your rig on a stand (rehearsals/gigs) to get it closer to ear level so you can hear your mids better. It may sound like you have lost "bass" but it's actually that you're hearing a more of your overall tone in a balanced manner.

IME, with each venue comes along different types of room echoes/reverberations. Usually, the deeper the bass on stage, the muddier it is FOH. Also, the more highs you have in your eq. what the audience hears is clankyness.

I think with a few tone adjustments and getting fdeck's HPF v.3 in your signal path, you'll be able to improve your tone much more that the BBE Sonic Maximizer can.

Post some video/audio links if you can.:)
 
#50
Stumbo said:
Some info from the GK website manual:

Note: At higher playing levels the contour
should be set lower for mid-range clarity. To
get 800RB voicing, the contour should be set to
0 or 10 only.

Contour:
The Contour is based on the same contour
circuit as the 800RB, but adds a variable control for
precise tone shaping. With the control at zero, the
response is essentially ‘flat’, as in no shaping. As
the contour is increased, it scoops out the midrange
while subtly emphasizing the lows and highs.
Additionally, it compensates to keep the overall
volume level constant. With it’s variable control, the
Contour will accomodate everyone from the smooth
finger-style player to the aggressive slap player.

Presence:
The Presence control adds extra sparkle
on the high-end for better clarity and ‘openness’ in
your tone. This is particularly useful when soloing
or playing chords.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

There a mega-thread on the fdeck hpf v3 you may want to check out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the FDeck link! I've been looking for solid info for a while now! Hopefully there will be enough there that I can understand.
 
#52
kleinenenten said:
OK, I think I've got it. Basically, there will be minimal difference in volume loss to my ears (if any) since the cab cuts off volume well before that anyway. And without all the extra effort of trying to amplify sounds it can't do, the cab will be more efficient, leading to more usable headroom on the amp, and "tighter" bass response since those stray frequencies aren't being attempted and sounding "off" in the unsuccessful attempt.

I hope that's it! Thanks as always, B!
Click to expand...

Now you are getting it!
Simple experiment: With your amp set to a medium to quiet playing level move your E or B sting up and down from the neck pickup, DON'T let the string touch the pickup. You will see the speaker cone move a lot but no audible sound. This is what you are trying to eliminate.

wcriley said:
I believe the series 3 has two filters. One set at 30Hz and the other variable. Each have 12dB/octave slopes which add together to be 24dB/octave.
Click to expand...

I believe you are correct Bill, I just didn't want to make it any harder to understand. :)
 
#55
I think the YouTube demo of the BBE hooked up to the waveform analyzer says it all. More like a Sonic Minimizer.

Save your cash and time. It will be better spent learning how to make the most of a good EQ.

Lonnybass
 
#57
B-string said:
Are you talking about the 360 degree phase shift it provided? That is not "aligning phase" it is providing a phase shift, the delay may make a larger sound stage effect. An effect I find artificial in a live performance and detracting. Difference of personal opinion and personal sonic tastes is what makes the world continue spinning. IMHO.
Click to expand...

I agree, different strokes for different folks. The shift is what it really does though and as you said it improves the sound stage. I wouldn't call it artificial sounding but what ever. Funny thing is unless its either running to the board or being miked the crowd wont hear it. Works great for recording though imo.
 
#58
Lonnybass said:
I think the YouTube demo of the BBE hooked up to the waveform analyzer says it all. More like a Sonic Minimizer.
Click to expand...
yeah, wow!

to sum up the video test, it actually kills low end when bypassed, so that engaging it brings the bottom back, making you think it sounds better engaged when it's really just sandbagging your system :mad:

the two knobs are just bass boost and treble boost, turning them up from "0" gives you the ol' smiley-face EQ curve.
 
#59
still, it is doing something with the phase; as i understand the SMAART test video it's shifting the phase around with frequency, starting at 0° at the bottom octave and ending up a full 360° (all the way around again) up at 20kHz.

no hint as to what effect that has, it seems like all its blatant EQ'ing (i.e., the sneaky bass-suck in bypass and obvious bass and treble boost when engaged and the knobs turned up) way dominate anything else it might be doing.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back