Show us your Road Worn Fender Basses...!!!

[mongo2]

I think this is a pretty good analogy. Reviews on the Hyundai have been excellent and the only thing stopping it from being a good seller is ignorance.

Or the $40K price.

 

[Disraeli Gears]

Again, this is show your road worn basses and not I'm a snob uber experienced bassist that thinks other bassists are wuss because they like the road worn finish.

Fair enough. But I don't think I ever tried to sell myself as an "uber experienced bassist that thinks other basses are wusses because they like the road worn finish". In fact, quite the opposite. I admit that I'm probably less experienced than a good 90% of you, and I don't have a problem with any of YOU liking the road worn finish (different people are into different things), I was just expressing my own opinions. I guess I took this thread for more of a general discussion of the basses, as opposed to simply posting pics, an assumption that was clearly wrong. Anyway, carry on

 

[Stumpy]

Like blue jeans, I guess, the wear comes in from working the bass and hauling it everywhere...breaking it in.

I mind the thought that someone would put out a bass that "looks" worn rather than a person actually putting in the time and wearing down the look.

Kinda like having designer hole-y jeans. We used to work on our cars/trucks and got acid on the jeans...tore a hole in them somehow or other while fixing something under the car.

I actually played the "worn" look-a-like Jaco bass side by side with a Squire jazz on a markbass set up at the GC. (head and 410) The Jaco felt and sounded ok, just ok, but the Squire, in my humble opinion, kicked its butt. The feel was better, the sound was cleaner, and it had more mwaaaaaaaahhhh to it. I looked at the sales guy and said, "go figure. How come the feel and sound is better on the Squire?" he just took the Jaco and hung the 3200.00 bass back up in it's spot ("the shrine" ) that they had erected for it.

Just My Humble Thoughts.

 

[Jim Carr]

...In the last 3 weeks I've see a lot of TBrs who are "blown away" by the new RW basses...

You all know by now it's a US vs Mexico problem. Just like we have over here with the Germans...

Yes, Theo. I think this is part of it, though as we all pretty much agree, price is a big factor when taking on debt is out of the question for many of us.

I still suspect that the "MIM is lower quality" concept is hard to shake perhaps because there is a whiff of racism involved. I like to remember and repeat a comment, made a couple years ago by a TBer (I wish I remembered who it was). I am paraphrasing and no doubt repeating myself, too, but it went something like this:

"Let me get this straight--You don't like Fender basses made by Mexicans in Mexico, but you do like Fender basses made by Mexicans in California. OK, fine."

Reality is always more complicated than we wish to believe. Happy Easter!

Ps. I just found 5 RW basses in my area and am on my way to play them!!!!

 

[mongo2]

I still suspect that the "MIM is lower quality" concept is hard to shake perhaps because there is a whiff of racism involved. I like to remember and repeat a comment, made a couple years ago by a TBer (I wish I remembered who it was). I am paraphrasing and no doubt repeating myself, too, but it went something like this:

"Let me get this straight--You don't like Fender basses made by Mexicans in Mexico, but you do like Fender basses made by Mexicans in California. OK, fine."

I've made that precise point on another board and was just about to raise it here.

Be careful not to paint too broad of a stroke with your "racism brush"

 

[Jim Carr]

Like blue jeans, I guess, the wear comes in from working the bass and hauling it everywhere...breaking it in.

I mind the thought that someone would put out a bass that "looks" worn rather than a person actually putting in the time and wearing down the look...

We have all seen this before so often, but this is not a valid argument in my opinion. In fact, most fade-type and hole wear is created by washing machines, walking, and sitting, not hard work, IME. I have worn jeans for over 50 years.

Furthermore, most people today, and for several decades all over the world have been wearing jeans that don't meet your "putting in the time" criteria. I mean no disrepect, but I feel I should point out that the vast majority of jeans sold by Levi Strauss, Lee, and other makers for the last 20 years have been treated with what is known as "biostoning." This process has little effect on how hard a person works for their pay, IMHO. Here is some hard info:

"A better, more modern stone washing process: A technique known as "biostoning" was introduced in Europe in 1989 and then quickly adopted in the US the following year. Biostoning relies on the action of enzymes to modify the fabric surface. Enzymes have been used in the textiles industry since the turn of the century to remove starchy and waxy residues from raw materials and to give fabric a uniform finish. In the early days, one problem with biostoning was "back staining." Back staining happens when loosened dye particles redeposit onto the back surface of the fabric, causing discoloration. A reddening of the dyes sometimes occurred too. But maintaining the pH of the wash load has successfully controlled both problems. Today, biostoning can achieve the same effect as traditional stone washing, but without the damaging abrasion of the fabric and equipment. Biostoning is by far the most economical and environmentally friendly way to treat denim.

Waste, pollution, quality variability, and imperfections are all reduced. And unlike pumice or acid, which get used up during the wash, enzymes can be recycled. A small dose of enzymes can replace several dozen pounds of pumice stones. So productivity can be increased by 30-50% because the room formerly taken up by the pumice stones in the washing machines can now be filled with more jeans.

And there is no need for the time-consuming and expensive task of removing stone fragments from the jeans once the wash is done.
There is also no pumice dust to endanger employee health or gritty sediment to clog drains.

Does this all sound too good to be true? Well believe it! Nearly all jeans made today are finished by biostoning. So next time you sit down in your favorite pair of jeans to enjoy surfing the web, just remember: Even though the label says stone washed, stones aren't really used at all. Instead, when you see "stone washed," think of those industrious little enzymes made possible through the wonders of modern biology."

from Link Removed

 

[Delta_Petra]

Still my favorite road worn bass. Just awesome.

 

[Jim Carr]

I've made that precise point on another board and was just about to raise it here.

Be careful not to paint too broad of a stroke with your "racism brush"

+1
Point taken. That is important. I might add that I had no brush, just a keen nose...

 

[mike_v_s]

Or the $40K price.

If a person cannot afford a $40K car, it doesn't matter if it's made in Korea, Mexico, the US, or whatever. The anology fits if you're in the market for a $40K car or a $1K bass. You'd be doing yourself a disservice to discount both exaples based simply on the idea that they are inferior because of where they are made. And that's pretty much what we have here: people who say "that's too much for X product made in X country". I say it's an ignorant way to view basses, cars or whatever.

Off the subject, but Hyundai is trying what Lexus did in the late 80's early 90's by producing a feature-laden vehicle that favorably compares with the competition and runs thousands less. Most of the people who balk at the price are the people who don't follow the auto industry.

Mike

 

[mongo2]

If a person cannot afford a $40K car, it doesn't matter if it's made in Korea, Mexico, the US, or whatever. The anology fits if you're in the market for a $40K car or a $1K bass. You'd be doing yourself a disservice to discount both exaples based simply on the idea that they are inferior because of where they are made. And that's pretty much what we have here: people who say "that's too much for X product made in X country". I say it's an ignorant way to view basses, cars or whatever.

Off the subject, but Hyundai is trying what Lexus did in the late 80's early 90's by producing a feature-laden vehicle that favorably compares with the competition and runs thousands less. Most of the people who balk at the price are the people who don't follow the auto industry.

Or they're smart enough to realize they don't have to spend $40K for a car.

 

[AMJBASS]

I really don't understand all of the controversy regarding relic'ing. You either like it or you don't. You don't have to buy one. I bought my Road Worn because it feels great, and sounds great. Not because it is made to look "road worn". For the work I get, and the styles I enjoy playing these basses suit me. Frankly wether they are popular or not, or built in the US or not doesn't change the fact that they are nice basses!

 

[elBandito]

but you HAVE to spend +$1500 on a bass?

Or they're smart enough to realize they don't have to spend $40K for a car.

 

[mongo2]

but you HAVE to spend +$1500 on a bass?

Absolutely not, that's the point.

 

[Disraeli Gears]

Link Removed

I didn't know Atoz had a blue jeans company

 

[savit260]

If a person cannot afford a $40K car, it doesn't matter if it's made in Korea, Mexico, the US, or whatever. The anology fits if you're in the market for a $40K car or a $1K bass. You'd be doing yourself a disservice to discount both exaples based simply on the idea that they are inferior because of where they are made. And that's pretty much what we have here: people who say "that's too much for X product made in X country". I say it's an ignorant way to view basses, cars or whatever.

Off the subject, but Hyundai is trying what Lexus did in the late 80's early 90's by producing a feature-laden vehicle that favorably compares with the competition and runs thousands less. Most of the people who balk at the price are the people who don't follow the auto industry.

Mike

It seems to me that you may have missed my point. The point being that there is a "stigma" that goes along with the product.

Regardless of how good a Hyundai Genesis is...and I've read that they are quite good, the brand has to deal with the stigma of the past as being a "budget" brand. A brand that made it's mark selling VERY inexpensive cars.

The RW has the same stigma to deal with. MIM Fenders have been the "budget" line for a good number of years now. No matter how good the instrument is (and I've played them and they are indeed good) they're going to have to deal wtih that perception. The MIM Fender line earend it's reputation selling good quality instruments at bargain prices. A "value leader".


and back to the auto analogy for a second, because this has to do with the "perception" end of things.

Toyota chose to create an upmarket "badge" with Lexus.

Note that they did not choose to market the Lexus under the Toyota "badge". Why? Probably becuase the didn't think the market would accept a luxury car, marketed at BMW and Mercedes owneres with a Toyota (budget/garden variety/ bread and butter brand) name plate.

Same with the Scion brand (also Toyota). This is their "budget" Toyota or roughly equivilent to the MIM Fender line.
Would the market support at $28000 Scion?

 

[J. Crawford]

Where did this thread turn to become a car comparison thread?

You like them or you dont. Boohoo.

 

[mike_v_s]

Or they're smart enough to realize they don't have to spend $40K for a car.

But purchases based on "what gets the job done" vs "what gets the job done the way I want it" aren't really the issue. If they were, the location of manufacture would not be brought up...only the price. That's not the case, though.

If the point were simply "you don't have to spend $1500 on a bass", then these same people would be posting in every Musicman, G&L, USA Fender, Peavey Cirrus, Lakland...(etc, etc, etc, etc) thread about how the basses are too much. While you do see the "Why do you spend $xxxx on a bass when an SX will do?" threads, the RW series seems to have stuck some people specifically....and mostly becasue of the MIM thing.

Mike

 

[savit260]

Where did this thread turn to become a car comparison thread?

You like them or you dont. Boohoo.

The auto analogy is a simple analogy that most can relate to , in order to explain the "perception" end of this discussion, and how it relates to a $1200 MIM Fender product.

We aren't discussing wheather or not you "like" them or not. This part of the discussion is about price structure and how it relates to where the lines have traditional sat in the Fender line up.

 

[savit260]

Still my favorite road worn bass. Just awesome.

 

[mike_v_s]

It seems to me that you may have missed my point. The point being that there is a "stigma" that goes along with the product.

Regardless of how good a Hyundai Genesis is...and I've read that they are quite good, the brand has to deal with the stigma of the past as being a "budget" brand. A brand that made it's mark selling VERY inexpensive cars.

The RW has the same stigma to deal with. MIM Fenders have been the "budget" line for a good number of years now. No matter how good the instrument is (and I've played them and they are indeed good) they're going to have to deal wtih that perception. The MIM Fender line earend it's reputation selling good quality instruments at bargain prices. A "value leader".


and back to the auto analogy for a second, because this has to do with the "perception" end of things.

Toyota chose to create an upmarket "badge" with Lexus.

Note that they did not choose to market the Lexus under the Toyota "badge". Why? Probably becuase the didn't think the market would accept a luxury car, marketed at BMW and Mercedes owneres with a Toyota (budget/garden variety/ bread and butter brand) name plate.

Same with the Scion brand (also Toyota). This is their "budget" Toyota or roughly equivilent to the MIM Fender line.
Would the market support at $28000 Scion?

I got the point, I'm just approaching the angle that the consumer can be screwing themselves by assuming that location of manufacture denotes quality.

As far as the Lexus deal, regardless of branding, everyone knew that Toyota made them and their big hill was trying to sell a Japanese Luxury sedan.

Mike