Show your Ramps!

[spade2you]

The Barts in all but my MTD 635 are passive. I have the strings almost ridiculously close to the pickups on some of my basses and have had no issues. I don't doubt it could be a problem with some pickups, the idea that it will be a problem is what I take exception to.

....but TB operates only on absolutes!!!!!!

 

[BassSlave]

Wrong....... If you watch Stanley and Marcus and the many who use the harder pluck sound, they achieve that by plucking in the area closest to the neck, so a ramp will not prevent this unless you install it in front of the neck pickup ala Gary Willis and this is a suitable place for fretless to begin with. The further back you pluck toward the bridge will give a burpy, puchy tone and I wonder if Jaco would even appreciate having the ramp back there as he almost always played over the pickup and the ramp would have given him a few other spots to tease our ears and soul with. IMHO

+1
That may be the biggest thing people seem to miss. You can pluck extremely hard with a ramp. It will limit how hard you can pluck down into the neck, so it can limit the hard plucked Stanley Clarke/Marcus Miller vibe. Going with a lower ramp height can address that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

....but TB operates only on absolutes!!!!!!

That never happens.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Wrong....... If you watch Stanley and Marcus and the many who use the harder pluck sound, they achieve that by plucking in the area closest to the neck, so a ramp will not prevent this unless you install it in front of the neck pickup ala Gary Willis and this is a suitable place for fretless to begin with. The further back you pluck toward the bridge will give a burpy, puchy tone and I wonder if Jaco would even appreciate having the ramp back there as he almost always played over the pickup and the ramp would have given him a few other spots to tease our ears and soul with. IMHO

Wrong?

Wrong. Think about what I wrote. Why would I be talking about where the ramp isn't located?

 

[BassSlave]

Actually, my pickups are pretty close to the strings, but my fingers don't touch them while I strike the strings, however the fingers do rest on them after they pluck through the string, which is a typical rest stroke. Gary Willis further explains this and if you focus more on where your plucking hand is, a ramp will has some great usefulness and benefits. I intend to get a few for my basses, but my right-hand technique allows me to float all over the plucking areas with the same control but it will be more relaxing to not have to "tight-rope" on gigs as I use the floating thumb anchor and use each string as a place the rest the thumb (sometimes) and on my old basses you can see where the thumb protrudes all the way to the body and the nail creates little divots and dig marks. So the ramp eliminates those inconsistencies even with veteran players.

Nice- I'd really like some radiused pickups like the Cirrus series has.



Where'd you get that notion? Unless you have tiny, tiny fingers, if your fingers don't touch your pickups when playing through the strings, then they're not set high enough.



With a passion. So much so that I decided to get another one and put a ramp on it, just so I can burn it:
Link Removed

 

[BassSlave]

I was just addressing this statement: "It will limit how hard you can pluck down into the neck, so it can limit the hard plucked Stanley Clarke/Marcus Miller vibe."

It can't limit the Clarke/Miller vibe if it is located in the spots where %99 of the cats here have theirs. We have yet to see one in the neck position and that will be the bass that might have a limited Clarke/Miller vibe due to its location. And even then there is always someone who can get the same sounds as others using different techniques so this is not an absolute. So I was simply clearing up your statement to my own understanding of how to achieve the Clarke/Miller pluck and still having a ramp installed. Which brings me to another conclusion that Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller actually plucks with bent wrists and the fingers almost parallel to the strings and this achieves the tone they are noted for. Most ramp users, not all BTW, play perpendiclur to the strings and perpendicular while over the ramp. Even Stanley Clarke has stated his finger method is not the most efficient, but who cares? It all about what the cat is saying, or playing on the bass anyway. So 0ou are not wrong....we just have different thought patterns.

Wrong?

Wrong. Think about what I wrote. Why would I be talking about where the ramp isn't located?

 

[coolrunner989]

My new Sei:

that is exaclty the bass I've dreamt about building! except with an amber/red burst top, and frets

I've got drawings of a bass design that I've never quite gotten "right" in my head but man that is it!

I dont want to know how much it was...but I do...share?

what are the controls? I'm guessing two pickups with a ramp in the middle right?

edit - a top like this color (posted earlier) and I'm in heaven.

 

[BigRedX]

coolrunner989, You can price one up for yourself from the Sei Bass Options page. The model is the Flamboyant 5-string Offset, and then add on all the options as you can see from the photos. The electronics are two Bartolini Gary Willis Pickups with a ramp between them; the pre-amp is the ACG 01 Filter Pre-amp with a Volume/blend stack, a filter stack for each pickup, and a treble stack. The switch is for the side LEDs. IMO the ACG is the best pre-amp you can have on a fretless bass, giving for me the right combination of low end body combined with singing highs.

 

[Yvon]

 

[Brad Johnson]

I was just addressing this statement: "It will limit how hard you can pluck down into the neck, so it can limit the hard plucked Stanley Clarke/Marcus Miller vibe."

This really isn't this complicated. Or is it? Here's the full thought, not ignoring the last sentence:

"You can pluck extremely hard with a ramp. It will limit how hard you can pluck down into the neck, so it can limit the hard plucked Stanley Clarke/Marcus Miller vibe. Going with a lower ramp height can address that.

If the ramp is high enough, it will limit how hard you can pluck down into the body... over the ramp of course. If, as I said, you have a low enough ramp, it can allow it.

It can't limit the Clarke/Miller vibe if it is located in the spots where %99 of the cats here have theirs. We have yet to see one in the neck position and that will be the bass that might have a limited Clarke/Miller vibe due to its location.

"We" is a very poor assumption. I've seen several basses, the most extreme of which was a fretless where the fretboard extended past the bridge. And have you not seen a Willis bass? Invalid Link Removed

99% of the basses you've seen apparently misses a lot of what's actually out there.

And even then there is always someone who can get the same sounds as others using different techniques so this is not an absolute. So I was simply clearing up your statement to my own understanding of how to achieve the Clarke/Miller pluck and still having a ramp installed.

If anything you muddied up my statement and continue to not understand it. I was talking about playing over the ramp WHERE IT IS INSTALLED. Not that it could somehow affect playing AWAY FROM IT.

Which brings me to another conclusion that Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller actually plucks with bent wrists and the fingers almost parallel to the strings and this achieves the tone they are noted for. Most ramp users, not all BTW, play perpendiclur to the strings and perpendicular while over the ramp. Even Stanley Clarke has stated his finger method is not the most efficient, but who cares? It all about what the cat is saying, or playing on the bass anyway. So 0ou are not wrong....we just have different thought patterns.

This ASSUMES that the person plays the same way away from the ramp as over it. The rest that you're bringing into this further muddies the water.

 

[BassSlave]

Maybe I was misunderstood. When I stated 99% of the basses we've seen that are ramped, I meant the basses presented in this particular thread only. Of course I've seen Willis' ramp and also know the ideal placement for fretless, but not limited to, is in the neck position. Also not to sound defensive regarding the Clarke/Miller statement, but I know that neither one of them plucks down into the neck and was simply stating on how to create that sound by plucking across the strings. You are correct and understood about lowering the ramp to make it better to dig in, which is why one should get the ramp sized so that they can either adjust the height with shims aor springed screws so that they player can be most comfortable with the feel for their personal taste.

No, it isn't complicated at all.....

This really isn't this complicated. Or is it? Here's the full thought, not ignoring the last sentence:

"You can pluck extremely hard with a ramp. It will limit how hard you can pluck down into the neck, so it can limit the hard plucked Stanley Clarke/Marcus Miller vibe. Going with a lower ramp height can address that.

If the ramp is high enough, it will limit how hard you can pluck down into the body... over the ramp of course. If, as I said, you have a low enough ramp, it can allow it.



"We" is a very poor assumption. I've seen several basses, the most extreme of which was a fretless where the fretboard extended past the bridge. And have you not seen a Willis bass? Invalid Link Removed

99% of the basses you've seen apparently misses a lot of what's actually out there.


If anything you muddied up my statement and continue to not understand it. I was talking about playing over the ramp WHERE IT IS INSTALLED. Not that it could somehow affect playing AWAY FROM IT.



This ASSUMES that the person plays the same way away from the ramp as over it. The rest that you're bringing into this further muddies the water.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Maybe I was misunderstood. When I stated 99% of the basses we've seen that are ramped, I meant the basses presented in this particular thread only. Of course I've seen Willis' ramp and also know the ideal placement for fretless, but not limited to, is in the neck position. Also not to sound defensive regarding the Clarke/Miller statement, but I know that neither one of them plucks down into the neck and was simply stating on how to create that sound by plucking across the strings. You are correct and understood about lowering the ramp to make it better to dig in, which is why one should get the ramp sized so that they can either adjust the height with shims aor springed screws so that they player can be most comfortable with the feel for their personal taste.

No, it isn't complicated at all.....

Cool.

Getting the Clarke/Miller hard plucked sound is quite possible close to the bridge. That's where I typically pluck to get it.

What I meant by down into the neck was towards it vs. across it.

 

[BassSlave]

No problem. I understood what you meant from earlier posts. My statements were to bring clarity on how one can achieve those sounds while setting the ramp in a high position so we both have different takes on the same subject. I'll bet if we ask 5 players the same question, we will get 5 different answers. I just know that from 32 years of experience and watching many well known players up close and even asking them how they achieve certain sounds and why. I know exactly how Miller plucks to achieve his sounds because I have asked him personally and watched him on many occasions. I am not debating on how to achieve a particular sound, however I am bring clarity to those who may want to have options on getting those sounds while still consider using a ramp. I'm sure there can be the same confusion to those who install bell covers over the neck pickup and wishes to get the Miller sound. I always advise those to watch the person they are emulating and see how they do it first. However I agree that there is always more than one way to achieve the same result and no one way is perfect for everybody. I even know there are those who have b ell covers who are wondering what the fuss over ramps is all about because they never play over the pickups and can get every sound from their instrument.

Cool.

Getting the Clarke/Miller hard plucked sound is quite possible close to the bridge. That's where I typically pluck to get it.

What I meant by down into the neck was towards it vs. across it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No problem. I understood what you meant from earlier posts. My statements were to bring clarity on how one can achieve those sounds while setting the ramp in a high position so we both have different takes on the same subject. I'll bet if we ask 5 players the same question, we will get 5 different answers. I just know that from 32 years of experience and watching many well known players up close and even asking them how they achieve certain sounds and why. I know exactly how Miller plucks to achieve his sounds because I have asked him personally and watched him on many occasions. I am not debating on how to achieve a particular sound, however I am bring clarity to those who may want to have options on getting those sounds while still consider using a ramp. I'm sure there can be the same confusion to those who install bell covers over the neck pickup and wishes to get the Miller sound. I always advise those to watch the person they are emulating and see how they do it first. However I agree that there is always more than one way to achieve the same result and no one way is perfect for everybody. I even know there are those who have b ell covers who are wondering what the fuss over ramps is all about because they never play over the pickups and can get every sound from their instrument.

If they never try a ramp, they'll probably never know what the benefit might be. And the ramp really isn't about getting a sound, there is AFAIK no sound of a ramp or ramp tone. It's about control...of your technique.

That's the weird thing about this... there are many who won't even try a ramp but think they know what the experience would be. And they're usually wrong IME.

Many simply don't understand the rationale behind ramps. So if you ask five people who actually use a ramp, I doubt you'd get 5 different answers. If you asked 5 people who haven't, you'll likely could get five different guesses.

It's actually pretty common... people think they know what an amp, speaker, bass, technique, setup,etc. can do based only on reading about them. those types of people tend to frequently be surprised. I see it quite often, especially on something counterintutive, like going with a thinner B string to get a bigger sound.

Your point about how to get a Marcus Miller sound with a high ramp didn't really have anything to do with a high ramp. You talked of not playing over it... which is what I'd already said.

 

[BassSlave]

If they never try a ramp, they'll probably never know what the benefit might be. And the ramp really isn't about getting a sound, there is AFAIK no sound of a ramp or ramp tone. It's about control...of your technique.



Your point about how to get a Marcus Miller sound with a high ramp didn't really have anything to do with a high ramp. You talked of not playing over it... which is what I'd already said.

 

[dunamis]

Dude! That is a sweeeeeeeet looking bass!

 

[Yvon]

Dude! That is a sweeeeeeeet looking bass!

thank you

 

[needmoney]

thank you

Who made the ramp Yvon?

 

[Yvon]

Who made the ramp Yvon?

I asked Bud to make it. I had it finished and install by a local luthier.

 

[middlebit]

Oiled mahogany ramp recently fitted on my Warmoth Deluxe V Jazz. This is only a prototype so I'll have it finished the same matte black as the body eventually. Sorry about the crappy photos...not much natural light about these days!