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Sid Vicious could play the bass

#121
Humbled said:
Just a thought on who has any business commenting on Punk, and the "working class/middle class" element of Punk:

During the "Punk Movement" in the USA, which I'll call 1975-1980, my friends, the people I hung with, (squarely "middle class"), were listening to George Duke, George Benson, Boz Skaggs, Stevie Wonder, Spirit, Pink Floyd, Steve Winwood, etc. The Rich kids listened to Punk. Meanwhile, I was gainfully employed playing in a Classic Country band. When I got the call for that band, from a fellow I knew from a previous rock-cover endeavor, my reaction was: "you're kidding me...". He said: "Naw man! Kids don't have any money, but the people who listen to this s**t do!. He was right, and I learned to love a genre that I had zero previous exposure to. Unabashed capitalism. :)

I disliked Punk. It sounded like someone pushing a china cabinet down a flight of steps to me, so I didn't listen to it (on purpose anyway). But, if that band-start-up call had been to descend the goldmine that was Punk, I probably would have learned to like Punk. None of this disqualifies me from having an opinion on it.
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There was nothing middle-class about the punks in my town or those nearby.
 
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#122
Humbled said:
Just a thought on who has any business commenting on Punk, and the "working class/middle class" element of Punk:

During the "Punk Movement" in the USA, which I'll call 1975-1980, my friends, the people I hung with, (squarely "middle class"), were listening to George Duke, George Benson, Boz Skaggs, Stevie Wonder, Spirit, Pink Floyd, Steve Winwood, etc. The Rich kids listened to Punk. Meanwhile, I was gainfully employed playing in a Classic Country band. When I got the call for that band, from a fellow I knew from a previous rock-cover endeavor, my reaction was: "you're kidding me...". He said: "Naw man! Kids don't have any money, but the people who listen to this s**t do!. He was right, and I learned to love a genre that I had zero previous exposure to. Unabashed capitalism. :)

I disliked Punk. It sounded like someone pushing a china cabinet down a flight of steps to me, so I didn't listen to it (on purpose anyway). But, if that band-start-up call had been to descend the goldmine that was Punk, I probably would have learned to like Punk. None of this disqualifies me from having an opinion on it.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you are from, but things were very different here in Pittsburgh during that time frame. Punk bands really struggled. We played for a 6-pack or for nothing, many times loosing money by playing out... food and booze cost way more than we got back. If you wanted to make money, you played in a wedding/Holiday Inn/lounge band. It was hardly what I would call a Capital adventure and the same was true for almost all similar bands (Punk/"New Wave") at the time. We did it because it was fun, there was an awesome community and it was what we believed in at the time.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that we were not averse to the idea of making money (nor were other bands). To earn a living from it rather than slogging through a crappy job would have been great!
 
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#123
Humbled said:
Just a thought on who has any business commenting on Punk, and the "working class/middle class" element of Punk:

During the "Punk Movement" in the USA, which I'll call 1975-1980, my friends, the people I hung with, (squarely "middle class"), were listening to George Duke, George Benson, Boz Skaggs, Stevie Wonder, Spirit, Pink Floyd, Steve Winwood, etc. The Rich kids listened to Punk. Meanwhile, I was gainfully employed playing in a Classic Country band. When I got the call for that band, from a fellow I knew from a previous rock-cover endeavor, my reaction was: "you're kidding me...". He said: "Naw man! Kids don't have any money, but the people who listen to this s**t do!. He was right, and I learned to love a genre that I had zero previous exposure to. Unabashed capitalism. :)

I disliked Punk. It sounded like someone pushing a china cabinet down a flight of steps to me, so I didn't listen to it (on purpose anyway). But, if that band-start-up call had been to descend the goldmine that was Punk, I probably would have learned to like Punk. None of this disqualifies me from having an opinion on it.
Click to expand...

One can have an opinion on anything, it doesn't mean that it is a qualified one. I'm barely qualified to have an opinion on most smooth jazz, although I did try and learn a bunch of George Benson records when I was young, but ya know, why bother dissing something I know very little about.

Sure there are rich kids that listen to Punk. There are rich kids that listen to Journey. Punk has always had a working class appeal, especially in England, but in the states as well.
 
#124
Humbled said:
Just a thought on who has any business commenting on Punk, and the "working class/middle class" element of Punk:

During the "Punk Movement" in the USA, which I'll call 1975-1980, my friends, the people I hung with, (squarely "middle class"), were listening to George Duke, George Benson, Boz Skaggs, Stevie Wonder, Spirit, Pink Floyd, Steve Winwood, etc. The Rich kids listened to Punk. Meanwhile, I was gainfully employed playing in a Classic Country band. When I got the call for that band, from a fellow I knew from a previous rock-cover endeavor, my reaction was: "you're kidding me...". He said: "Naw man! Kids don't have any money, but the people who listen to this s**t do!. He was right, and I learned to love a genre that I had zero previous exposure to. Unabashed capitalism. :)

I disliked Punk. It sounded like someone pushing a china cabinet down a flight of steps to me, so I didn't listen to it (on purpose anyway). But, if that band-start-up call had been to descend the goldmine that was Punk, I probably would have learned to like Punk. None of this disqualifies me from having an opinion on it.
Click to expand...
"Other dudes are living in the ghetto
But born in pacific heights don't seem much betto" ~ White Punks On Dope - The Tubes (1975)

I was a teenager living in London during the emergence of the punk movement. Unless you were immersed in the social, political, and economic pressures of that time it's going to be difficult to really understand the difference between the UK punk of the period, and the USA's take on it. I wasn't "a punk." I did enjoy a few bands, and I did enjoy the unrest that it caused. I liked seeing the establishment of the time troubled.

I can guarantee that it wasn't a rich kids thing. It may have been co-opted by middle class (Middle Class in the UK is not the same as Middle Class in the USA) kids trying to rebel, but that wasn't the grass roots.
It's fine to not like the music. I don't like much of it. But as I mentioned before, 'punk' wasn't just the music.
When I see kids wearing 'uniforms' (bondage trousers, leather jacket, spiked hair, safety pins etc.), it makes me die inside a bit, as that's almost the antithesis of what punk was.
 
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#125
Never mind the bollocks sold 1.3 million copies. U2 has sold a billion records. Karen Carpenter made platinum albums. 2 bass players, and a drummer with really rudimentary skills who were successful. Sid sold more albums than Victor Wooten. Adam Clayton sold more records than all the top 'good' bass players combined. Karen Carpenter sold more records than Billy Cobham. Clearly, good enough was good enough.
 
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#135
Humbled said:
I think the division comes into a musician's forum when "validity" has to be assessed based on whether the art consists of social commentary, lifestyle/fashion, or musicianship.
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Sure, those are some arguments that could be made. We're straying pretty far from the point now at least as pertains to Sid, who was objectively a pretty terrible bass player, no matter how you look at it. Certainly a rock star, but as @Paulabass said, there have been some pretty mediocre players that have produced some music that has had appeal and impact.
 
#137
I find interesting that so many comments here are about Sid's lack of musicianship...

No one, including the OP said anything about him as a, or being a musician..

OP simply stated the yes, at one point, obviously before he became a raging junkie... that he actually played.. very little mind you, because like all of us at one point, he was just learning when he was pulled into the band... and was only so because he looked more the part over Glenn Matlock
 
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#139
Humbled said:
Just a thought on who has any business commenting on Punk, and the "working class/middle class" element of Punk:

During the "Punk Movement" in the USA, which I'll call 1975-1980, my friends, the people I hung with, (squarely "middle class"), were listening to George Duke, George Benson, Boz Skaggs, Stevie Wonder, Spirit, Pink Floyd, Steve Winwood, etc. The Rich kids listened to Punk. Meanwhile, I was gainfully employed playing in a Classic Country band. When I got the call for that band, from a fellow I knew from a previous rock-cover endeavor, my reaction was: "you're kidding me...". He said: "Naw man! Kids don't have any money, but the people who listen to this s**t do!. He was right, and I learned to love a genre that I had zero previous exposure to. Unabashed capitalism. :)
Click to expand...
Not really clear on your dates. X’s first album was released in 1980, Black Flag’s in 1981, and the Minutemen’s first EP was released in 1981 and LP in 1983.
 
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