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Sidewinders, Multi-coils and other hard to find pickups

#41
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Interesting.... that Bill Lawrence sidewinder looks a lot like a Q-tuner, without the adjustable pole pieces.
 
#43
Becky Lawrence said:
12bass, I've had some of Bill's customers who have told me that they can put one of Bill's Sidewinder pickup model he previously made on a transformer and there is no buzz! The ones I made were amazingly quiet too. Yes, manufacturing procedures are very important.
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To clarify, the problem I have with my Lane Poor sidewinders is not hum or buzz, like what comes from close proximity to a power transformer. They reject that. However, they are susceptible to high frequency "bizz" from noisy electronic devices. This is not a low frequency 60/120 Hz hum, but more like a mosquito kind of sound, with higher frequency harmonics. My Q-tuner sidewinders do not have this problem.
 
#45
BTL said:
Bill did, in fact, patent the sidewinder in 1974:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Here's a link to the design:

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Bill patented a specific sidewinder implementation, not the basic sidewinder concept of horizontal coils. Sidewinder designs are even featured in some of Seth Lovers patent drawings from the 50s IIRC.
 
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#46
I'm guessing you already know this, but...yes, he patented "A" sidewinder in 1974, and I provided a link to the documents.

However, when most people refer to "THE SIDEWINDER" pickup design, they are referring to this specific patent and Bill's original design.

Most people don't refer to the EBO design as "THE SIDEWINDER" pickup, it's just an EBO.

What makes the EBO problematic (MUDDY) is that the magnets are placed outside the coils, a VERY wide aperture design.

By contrast, Bill's design used a single magnetic field centered in between the coils, resulting in a narrow aperture, noise-free pickup that produces the kind of clarity usually associated with a single coil.

I hope that explanation provides a better context for this discussion.
 
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#47
BTL said:
What makes the EBO problematic (MUDDY) is that the magnets are placed outside the coils, a VERY wide aperture design.

By contrast, Bill's design used a single magnetic field centered in between the coils, resulting in a narrow aperture, noise-free pickup that produces the kind of clarity usually associated with a single coil.
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When I was in Amsterdam I met up with Erno Zwaan, designer of the Q-tuner. He talked at some length about his design (much of it over my head as I am not a pickup builder). One thing I remember, however, is that he mentioned the importance of sensing a very narrow section of the string (like a knife-edge) in order to capture the most harmonic overtones. He seemed to want to reproduce a very focused, accurate, sound. Not muddy at all....
 
#49
big_teee said:
Don't know about patents?
Everything I've read the EB-0 Sidewinder bass pickup was designed by Seth Lover in 1959.
T
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I see that in the diagram associated with the link to Bills patent I see that a single magnet is used with north facing the strings.IIRC Big Ts has 2.Care to discuss why you went this route and what the differences are?
 
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#50
A couple of reasons for two magnets.
1. is availability of parts.
EMG type bobbins with EMG type bobbin magnets.
2. with two magnets turned head to head, with a blade between, North/Blade/North ?
You get a huge increased forced field.
3. the thin steel blade between, gives some warmth of steel, with the bright narrow aperture design.
I like it, others seem to like it too.
T
 
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#51
big_teee said:
A couple of reasons for two magnets.
1. is availability of parts.
EMG type bobbins with EMG type bobbin magnets.
2. with two magnets turned head to head, with a blade between, North/Blade/North ?
You get a huge increased forced field.
3. the thin steel blade between, gives some warmth of steel, with the bright narrow aperture design.
I like it, others seem to like it too.
T
Click to expand...

@big_teee Does this all fit in a standard EMG35 shaped enclosure then?
 
#55
big_teee said:
A couple of reasons for two magnets.
1. is availability of parts.
EMG type bobbins with EMG type bobbin magnets.
2. with two magnets turned head to head, with a blade between, North/Blade/North ?
You get a huge increased forced field.
3. the thin steel blade between, gives some warmth of steel, with the bright narrow aperture design.
I like it, others seem to like it too.
T
Click to expand...
I know I do!!!!
 
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#56
12bass said:
Hi Becky,

Nice to see you here!

Regarding Lane Poor pickups, I have a pair of M3.5W which are wide aperture sidewinders. Very nice sounding pickups! I definitely think that sidewinders are an excellent choice for bass and that there should be a market for them.

My Lane Poors do not have any significant 60 Hz hum, so they are effective at hum cancelling. However, they do pick up stray EMI from various sources like dimmers. This is a higher frequency "bizz" sound rather than a hum. They are grounded and installed in a shielded cavity, with ferrite chokes on the output wires. As I recall, Lane sent me replacements which were no better. Given what you stated above, I'm curious if this is due to a manufacturing error or perhaps is an artifact of the design?
Click to expand...

I had the very same experience. It was too bad, because they sounded great. He never did send me my replacements, but that's another story. Now I'm using the ever elusive SGD pickups in that bass and I'm pretty happy.
 
#57
Just got my bass back from the shop with a pair of Big Tee's sidewinders in it. These are some really cool pickups. Running an active Duncan 3-band and these pickups really love it. With the EQ flat the bridge tone is close to a jazz feel but with a bit more body and is easily shaped from there. The neck pup is a new tone for me. A bit of growl when pushed hard and played with a pick. I play through an Ampeg CL and with the preamp boost it gives just enough drive to add some bite without really being overdriven.

I'm very happy with these pickups and can't wait for him to get multi-coils going.
 
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#59
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#60
big_teee said:
I'm trying to figure out how to build sidewinders with EMG type Bobbins Into the Chrome Thunderbird cover?
Nickel Plated metal bass pickup cover for Gibson® Thunderbird bass guitar - Philadelphia Luthier Tools & Supplies, LLC
They typically have a short humbucker bobbin in them.
The problem I see is that the cover overall is only 15/32 tall.
These covers are Gorgeous, Has anyone here built anything in them?
T
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I think the trick is to build a baseplate you can solder or epoxy to the cover:

chrome_t-bird_sidewinders.jpg


You can easily make one out of nickel silver or brass sheet:

plates.jpg


pick.jpg
 
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