Yeah, I was once in a jazz combo and needed to be very flexible with my playing to do what the BL wanted at the spur of the moment. That's when I learned to transpose keys on the fly and it was an immensely valuable experience.
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Singers changing key: how much is too much?
- Thread starter Rottie Roo Roo
- Start date
Yeah, I was once in a jazz combo and needed to be very flexible with my playing to do what the BL wanted at the spur of the moment. That's when I learned to transpose keys on the fly and it was an immensely valuable experience.
This anecdote cracked me up. In the last couple of years I found with two good male standards and pop-oriented vocalists, one tenor and one baritone, that B has been right for them on a couple of tunes, not C or Bb. B is just the best for them. The key of B is “closed” on the cello with no natural ring tones. So on the breaks in tunes in B I play with more bow coloring, vibrato, whatever it takes to get a good sound. As you wrote, it is all about the singer, we should be able to play the key required. Now, if there ever were to be horns involved, well …
We had horns lol.
Standard trick for them is if the singer says ‘A’ they play ‘Ab’ or ‘Bb’, they say ‘B’ horns play ‘Bb’ or ‘C’. Nobody, except our star, complains or notices. ‘B’ is tough even for pros.
I have played with horn players so good that any tune they play they can play in any key(!) This tricked me up one time as I absentmindedly called the key wrong, and the guy played my dumb key, without complaining. I muffed up the chords rather well.
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hahaha true... but he certainly got much closer in the studio than he did live, even without the tape speed changing that gave him another 2 or 3 semitones.... different environment, singing the one or two takes per day at the start before his voice started dropping.... those are tricks I do when I have to sing really high stuff (by my standards) in the studio...And even he doesn't sing in those keys
but yea I mean some of the really explicit tape speed changes are on house of the holy.... it's almost cartoonish, although still uber cool
Changing keys to accommodate the vocalist should be expected. Trying to sing in the original key makes no sense. It's part of being more professional. The singer needs to be in their comfort range for the band to sound the best they can. In most cases, if you use the numbering system (Nashville numbering system for example) changing keys is much less of an issue. Yeah, some open E stuff in the original line can easily be an Eb or D on a 5 string but tougher on a 4, but people will notice the quality of the vocalist more than anything. As bass players we just need to do our job and be willing to change keys.
1. How good is the singer are they a rock star or a diva? If they can make the song better in a different key make the change.
2. How does the song sound in a different key, sometimes it effects the impact of the song. If your goal is to sound like a true cover, keep original key or change it if you are trying to create your own cover sound.
2. How does the song sound in a different key, sometimes it effects the impact of the song. If your goal is to sound like a true cover, keep original key or change it if you are trying to create your own cover sound.
Salud!
The answer should be “as many as necessary”. In my bands, everything is in the key the singers need, as it should be, IMO. Only a very difficult song to play out of its key, “Footloose”, gave any problems. (Ok, difficult for me).
The answer should be “as many as necessary”. In my bands, everything is in the key the singers need, as it should be, IMO. Only a very difficult song to play out of its key, “Footloose”, gave any problems. (Ok, difficult for me).
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
The late, great, bassist, Ray Brown, emphasized the importance of learning songs in all twelve keys.
A professional bassist of the highest caliber, he could comfortably play any song in any key on a moment's notice.
I'm no Ray Brown, but have always aspired to this ideal.
I’m one who strongly feels changing keys to accommodate a vocalist’s range is just common sense. We do it all the time. That said, in the case of drastic key changes, sometimes the entire feeling or emotional spirit of a song is lost. This seems especially true with blues or blues based tunes. When even the low B on a five or six string can’t make the bass line in a new key click, I say lose the tune and play something else. Unfortunately, when a singer is dead set on singing a tune, you’ll find they usually don’t give a rip what the bass player thinks. Just do the best you can, be creative, maybe modify the line a bit. Good luck
I’m no Ray Brown either, but playing any song in any key seems like a no-brainer for any working musician - certainly a worthy aspiration for folks coming up the gigging ladder.
It’s been explained to me multiple times (here on TB) why changing the key changes the character of the song (separate from the difficulty level). I still don’t get it. Maybe I just have a tin ear.
It’s been explained to me multiple times (here on TB) why changing the key changes the character of the song (separate from the difficulty level). I still don’t get it. Maybe I just have a tin ear
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I've read the first and last pages of this so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned but, I play in an acoustic duo. Ninety nine percent of the over 200 covers we can do are played and sung half a step down from the recorded original. Guitars tuned down half a step also. Should regular key work best... capo for the guitarist and I learn it a half step up from my tuning. When I am learning a song... it is in the original key on bass in regular tuning. Many groups when playing live are a half or full step down from the original.
Depends on the singer, of course, but I'm pretty much used to singers requesting changes.
There are some singers for whom I always carry a Variax guitar. I can dial in any tuning required and simply play the song as I originally learned it. That way I can put my feet up or help the other musicians. Worth noting that a lot of keyboards (including the ones I use) can also change keys electronically with just a couple of button pushes.
