Singers who can't sing - maybe.

[sonojono]

Anthony Kiedis.

 

[LBS-bass]

A bad singer trying to cover Paul Rogers

That was my thought, too

 

[LBS-bass]

Intonation is incredibly important, but even with it music can still be pretty terrible if the person singing doesn’t understand or can’t convey the character of the music.

This is why I always say that a singer has to be able to concentrate and pay attention to all the vocal nuance, because the nuance - your vibrato, your breathiness, your dynamics, all the little subtle flourishes - all of that is what brings the emotion and power to the vocal delivery. It's a tall order when you're also playing the bass, and it's an impossible order if you can't hear yourself well.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Keith Relf made a career out of singing flat with the Yardbirds.

I sing. Because I have a vocal range that is suitable for a late-night jazz DJ, I get asked to sing stuff like LaGrange (I actually kind of love it. There is a certain all-male audience segment that is just waiting for me to go "A-How-How-How" like, "Show me!" And I do it, and there's this moment where I see a scattered group of gimme caps nodding.) I also sing Love Shack, because I can do Ricky Schneider no problem. (In real life, I'm sort of like a cheap paperback edition of Ricky.) As you see, I'm the Novelty Song Guy. We are re-tooling our set list for our upcoming return to gigging, and out of nowhere they gave me "Rocket Man." I know, and they know, I don't have a prayer of hitting some of those notes. So I'm not gonna. Replicating Elton John is not on the menu, so I have to do something else. I'm going to do my white boy soul shtick, which I didn't know I had, but apparently do, according to my fellow band members. In my mind--in my mind--I want to sound like a cross between B.B. King and George Jones. What actually comes out, I dunno. By May I may have a video, and y'all can judge how much I suck for yourselves.

My real problem is that I've had very little vocal training* and doing more than 4-5 songs in a night requires a lot of energy. And thus when I'm singing in the last set, I know I'm going to go flat in places.

*The keyboard player in one of the bands I played with in Asheville back around 2010 had been married for 10 years to an opera singer. He gave me a few tips on breathing, hitting notes accurately ("You're sliding up to the note!") and did I mention breathing?

 

[Samatza]

We’ve had everything ranging from the full pro level, sing anything perfectly down to totally hopeless and continuously blaming the PA.

One particular person had all the hallmarks of a great performer, likeable, good looks and great rapport with the audience but loose with the pitch, mostly slightly flat. So I recorded gigs and sent them over and this person asked me what they can do to improve pitch control.

We sat at the piano for a few months and just did vocal exercises, slow, deliberate and focused on pitch. About 9 months later the singing has improved stratospherically.

Some people have the goods and need some training to get there, others think they are great and refuse to see the problem. A friend once described them as ‘microphone owner’ - I have an expensive mic so I can sing... you can’t fix any problem that you refuse to acknowledge.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

My vocal coach had Keb Mo as a client at one point, coincidentally when he was on tour opening for Bonnie.

Bonnie Raitt live can peel paint with that voice. Her father was a musical theatre guy. Those guys have to hit the back row. John taught Bonnie well.

I love Ken Mo. But I also saw a concert here of that tour. Keb’s band played their set and it was really good. But then Bonnie’s band played one song, and I felt bad for them, great as they were, because Bonnie and that band are in a whole other league. It’s just unreal how tight that band is. No weak links at all, and fronted by her??? Fuggetaboutit. Game over. One of the all time greats.

 

[CoffeeLove]

Singing consistently off-pitch, having bad vocal tone, or singing songs far from the original keys would all be non starters for me. Everyone in the band needs to be solid, and that includes vocalists. Singing off pitch would be the same as the bass player or guitar player constantly hitting bad notes, just doesn't work. While "some" improvements can be made in vocal skills, my experience has been you either have it or you don't (tone, ability to stay on pitch, good vocal range, etc...). And the amount of practice required to improve those specific vocal attributes is ridiculous.

Can't tell you how many guitar players, drummers, etc... I have heard attempting to sing (both lead and backup) that just kill the sound. If a person does not have specific parts/harmonies/etc in the vocal mix (not just singing unison or octave melody), or are prone to singing off-pitch, then they shouldn't have a mic.

Maybe I am spoiled, but bad vocals kill a band. As far as approaching the singer, if it is not your band, then you either take it as-is or walk. Don't see any value in addressing it with the singer, it will likely go nowhere, and the chance of him improving are slim-to-none.

 

[Michedelic]

Keith Relf made a career out of singing flat with the Yardbirds

True, but he suffered from asthma, a real bad case apparently. However, he was a real charismatic master of ceremonies, a good looking guy, and that’s what got him over live. But there was a drinking problem. There’s a YT clip of them playing a gig in France, Jimmy Page era, where Keith is a total trainwreck, it’s sad.

 

[themickster]

As a singer, I wouldn't put out anything that's off-pitch.

 

[cnltb]

I think many 'singers' rely on show and lights more than they do on their voice and have managed to convince people that they can 'really' sing.
Lady Gaga is a prime example of this. I have not heard her not strain her voice and running out of 'head room'.
Really rough.

 

[jamro217]

It's like this, if they are the "vocalist" their instrument is their voice. When the drummer screws up, they get the look. When the guitarist screws up, they get the look. When the "vocalist" screws up, they should, too. Even more so if they don't play an instrument. When you're struggling to play the bass and sing a line that's completely opposite you might get a pass. It's another thing when the only job you have is to sing. Then you better have the incentive to put in the same amount of work as every other musician does.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Case study in how huge the egos on this sight are.

 

[viper4000]

imo they made their voices work for the music. that is not usually the case with offkey or croaking singers, but it can be done. not with all music, though.

as someone with a sometimes offkey, croaky, meatgrinder voice...you give me hope!

 

[tubedude]

Can’t or Don’t?

Bob Dylan
Neil Young
Tom Waits
Khalid
Cat Power
Steven Tyler
Drake

What are you after here?

Soul and charisma are why we care about singers. Once we accept that reality we’re willing to let some things slide. Try listening to Celine Dion when nobody is making you. Precise? Yup. Good pitch? Ditto. Smooth? Spot on. So if you’re doing Celine tribute your criteria are different than when you’re shopping rock, blues, R&B, etc.

Good call on the Vibe vs Accuracy issue.
I just wish you hadn't raised the spectre of a Celine Dion tribute band. Move on folks, nothing to see here. Forget all about it.

 

[tubedude]

Do they sound great regardless of the issues in hitting the notes and/or note selection? Meaning, they already sound like someone you would like to have a singer in your group, but they have some things to clean up that could make them even better?

If not, I don't seen any reason to bother, unless maybe if the band itself is *really* great and it is a package deal that you think would be worth some extra attention to the vocals.

Or they look good upfront and you can add many instrumentals to the setlist.

 

[ToneMonkey]

I love Ken Mo. But I also saw a concert here of that tour. Keb’s band played their set and it was really good. But then Bonnie’s band played one song, and I felt bad for them, great as they were, because Bonnie and that band are in a whole other league. It’s just unreal how tight that band is. No weak links at all, and fronted by her??? Fuggetaboutit. Game over. One of the all time greats.

Check out Keb Mo Hot Pink Blues. Terrific live album with a killer band. I saw one of those concerts. He truly leveled up big time with that band. I hope he gets some of those guys back. In particular, the coda on The Door is stunning. Every member takes a turn at lead vocals in a very gospelesque manner. It moves me every time.

 

[brianrost]

I'll just say that there a lot of mediocre singers all over the place. The one thing that really separates local bands form regional and national acts is the vocals. Great instrumentalists are a dime a dozen.

I've never been in a band with a great singer. Well, maybe one but she got voted off the Voice (seriously) a couple of years after she moved to NYC to "make it". I've worked with a few who can stay on pitch and make up for their other limitations with their phrasing and stage presence. Then there's the other 90%, including me, who are just never going to be good singers.

I know one singer/bandleader who has more gigs than anybody I know. He is not a good singer, but it doesn't matter because he works the crowd and schmoozes with his fans, especially the women. He works the social media to pack rooms and hustles venues so that he is actually turning down gigs. He will never be making records and touring, but within his niche, he makes it work.

Trying to figure out if someone will be able to improve their singing over time is nearly impossible. I worked with one singer who sobered up and started taking voice lessons. She is now singing much better than she was when I first was in a band with her. So ask them if they ever considered taking lessons???

 

[baileyboy]

The fact that Bob Dylan has a career makes this a moot point.

 

[Bright Midnight]

I find it harder! Interesting you find it easier, that's awesome. I also find rhythm way harder when playing bass and singing lead. So when we perform live I tend to really simplify my bass parts while I sing, so I Can focus on the main deal of the song (the lead vocals).

I did that too in my band. I was lead singer and bassist, and when I sang my bass playing would simplify. My band stopped a few years ago and we're now waiting to restart. This time I'm gonna focus real hard on playing/singing simultaneously.

 

[two fingers]

As my local music scene slowly wakes up from COVID isolation, I'm looking for a new band. I'm listening to people's recordings and it confirms what I already knew: A lot of singers are consistently way off key, and/or they're trying to sing in a key which makes no sense for their vocal range. This leads to an interesting question: How do you tell if a singer has more potential than what the recordings reveal? And more dangerous: How do you have this discussion if you're the new guy entering an existing band?

Yeah no thanks.

I just can't do it.

I sing as well as playing bass. I am CONSTANTLY asking band mates how I sound, if I'm "in my zone" as far as range, and if there are other songs that might fit my voice better. Feedback from those around me makes me better.

There are several things you can't "train" in adults (in my experience).

1) Ears. Band mates can't fix bad ears.

2) Give a dang. If you are in a band made up of "good enough" musicians, there's no fighting that battle. "It's just Sweet Home Alabama. We don't need all those harmonies. And just get the chords close enough." ...are words I despise. I simply used Sweet Home as an example. It doesn't matter what the song is. Do it right or don't freaking do it. "Close enough" and "good enough" don't exist. It's either good or it isn't. It's either correct or it isn't.

3) The ability (thick enough skin) to take constructive criticism from other musicians. Now, that doesn't mean you have to be a doormat and play whatever gear and tone your guitar players says. But listening to others with regard to improving accuracy of bass lines and/or vocal parts is a must. Several times my keyboard player and I have called each other out with regard to parts. Sometimes it gets "fixed". Sometimes we prove each other wrong and leave it as is. But we keep each other sharp.

If you are seeing singers who SING IN PUBLIC off key already, there's little hope they will change. The band clearly doesn't hear the problem, or the singer is such a jerk that advice falls on deaf ears. (irony)

I'm not setting foot on any stage with a singer who is off pitch. Hopefully my band mates are insuring that I never sing something off pitch.

I'm very fortunate right now. I used to think I was a fantastic singer until we formed my current band. My female singer a keys player SMOKE me vocally. But that's AWESOME. They have really sharpened my ax. We do a lot of three part harmonies. I have to stay on pitch and in my lane because they will be for sure. I used to sing a lot of high harmonies. With a female vocalist, that's just not practical so I had to go low on a lot of songs. That has been one of the most enjoyable challenges of my 35+ year music career. We do vocal rehearsals in between whole-band rehearsals. Just keys and the three of us singing. (Sometimes I'll play along quietly just to build up muscle memory doing both.)

We call these rehearsals "The Lounge Act". That's because we often end up doing slower, watered-down, versions with just piano. We've often thought of taking "The Lounge Act" to local clubs for fun.... maybe do a Saturday Night Live skit version of everything. Here's one such rehearsal. (Forgive the quick-and-dirty phone video. This is just a phone across the room. My bass tone isn't quite as boomy/muddy as this would have you believe.) This is an example of my doing low harmonies...which is not my wheelhouse.


(I've actually lost some weight since this video. I didn't realize how "round" my face was just a few months ago.)

Also, the Talkbass Fridge has a lot more stickers than that now. I just got another batch from Louisville KY I need to put up and update the thread.
What about a TalkBass fridge? (literally) | TalkBass.com

Sorry for the long post. This is a topic near and dear to me.